Some Flirts and Jokes Removed on the PTR, Fathom Dweller Available in NA, DLC #791

[bloodkin]

The only people making mountains out of mole hills are the game's devs and their shit contrived world view that will eventually kill off even more of the dwindling playerbase they already had. Tbh I should be encouraging them on twitter hahaha

Here in lies the crux: what the devs currently are doing is more alienating, not directly of the changes themselves but the implications and message it gives of: 'we do what we want because we feel like it, not because the players or the game needs it'. This further implies that anything and anyone in the game can be changed on a whim and that nothing is certain to stay the same, not the lore, story or anything within the game.

[Menog]

Here in lies the crux: what the devs currently are doing is more alienating, not directly of the changes themselves but the implications and message it gives of: 'we do what we want because we feel like it, not because the players or the game needs it'. This further implies that anything and anyone in the game can be changed on a whim and that nothing is certain to stay the same, not the lore, story or anything within the game.

yeah bassicly they don't give a fuck about the player base... it has always been the case tough, but now they don't give a fuck and give some shit half excuse in the form of a blue post and call it evolution of creative content.

[Dhrizzle]

So with your logic obviously someone thought other IRL people would find genocide, mass murder and torture funny/enjoyable? or it doesn't work that way, only with dick jokes?

No, not at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Humour is subjective, and some people will find low brow humour like dicks and fart jokes pretty funny, I know people who do. Most of them are women lol.

If we were all told what is funny and what we should laugh about then we'd all be robots. The best thing about humour despite if we like it or not is that its different for everyone. The only time humour isn't funny is when its used to incite hatred and violence. Becuase by that point it isnt humour its inciting hatred and violence with an added laugh track. I don't feel alot of the humour in WoW is there to incite hate or cause people to go harass people.

The subjectivity of humour isn't what I was getting at. I was trying to show there is a distinction between fantasy events in a fantasy world as part of a fantasy story and jokes that are put in by the devs for the benefit of the audience.

[Disxx]

Here in lies the crux: what the devs currently are doing is more alienating, not directly of the changes themselves but the implications and message it gives of: 'we do what we want because we feel like it, not because the players or the game needs it'. This further implies that anything and anyone in the game can be changed on a whim and that nothing is certain to stay the same, not the lore, story or anything within the game.

Time will tell. Usually, game devs don't care about others but make games they consider fun and like. If these changes will alienate old players but bring more new players then the game will prosper and that is good. If they will alienate old players and new ones won't catch then in some time management will replace those devs and new ones will make games to their liking. If someone doesn't like changes then they can quit and play other games they like. And time changes with people and maybe these changes will catch many new players.

[Kralljin]

Maybe some people play games for escapism so while the murder, brutality and genocide is part of a fantasy world

I think if you go down that rabbit hole, you'll quickly find that basically any theme can remind someone of a tragedy.

After all, if someone comes from a wartorn country, those themes might not be as distant as for a person grown up in stable state, disregarding those people that live in unstable countries right now.

reality the schlong jokes are clearly things put in because a real-life person thought other real-life people would find it funny.

Why should a sex joke take you out of the fantasy, does the concept of sex somehow not exist in Warcraft?

It's a weird dissonance of having built a world or fictional societies where war is glorified, which we certainly do not but also at the same believe that said society has achieved such a puritan status and rid themselves of any sexual innuendos - not just one but ALL of them.
The bar of "other real-life people would find it funny" is a low one when talking about a video game because virtually anything is put in for entertainment.

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but the "Twin Consorts" weren't meant to be funny, they were meant to make a point that Lei Shen basically holds ownership over the only female Mogu's in existence.
It's a powerplay on Lei Shen parts, it's to create scene which highlights how much of an ego Lei Shen has and how much he wants to be in control, not to be entertaining in the "funny" sense.

The same goes for similiar elements, like the renaming of "Damels" in the Un'goro questchain.
This entire chain is a parody of the medival knight going on a quest to save some damsels in distress, yet none of those "Damsels" are in need of saving.

At whose expense comes this humor?
Who is "taken out of the fantasy" here?

I don't think they'll removing those lines from the game

Explorer's League Researcher says: Or that time when you told us that you'd discovered the cure for the plague of the 20th century. What is that even? 20th century?

Explorer's League Researcher says: I dunno. It can't possibly beat the time he tried to convince us all that we're actually a figment of some being's imagination and that they only use us for their own personal amusement. That went over well during dinner with the family.

"I think I came from Eng-land, do you know where that is?"

Which, you know, are a lot closer to "taking someone out of the fantasy".

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you are going to regurgitate the same argument, you would save yourself some time by quoting your older posts.

It's truly naive to think that this doesn't cost development time: they need to go through every quest, npc and zone name and then rewrite whatever they don't like. All of this is done instead of writing new quests, lore etc.

There’s no reason to think they are going through every npc zone quest ect instead of just bribing up stuff from memory, the blue post on the topic said they set up a channel for employees to bring stuff to light boy that they are scouring the game.

[bloodkin]

No, not at all.

- - - Updated - - -



The subjectivity of humour isn't what I was getting at. I was trying to show there is a distinction between fantasy events in a fantasy world as part of a fantasy story and jokes that are put in by the devs for the benefit of the audience.

Well, to problem is that both are implemented within the game, with little to no distinction of the jokes from the lore or setting. Sure, some break the 4th wall and are clearly references, but some can be taken as entirely fitting within the setting of the game lore. Where do you start to make these distinctions? Why are jokes or controversial/sexual topics not ok, but violent jokes ok?

[Sialina]

No, not at all.

- - - Updated - - -



The subjectivity of humour isn't what I was getting at. I was trying to show there is a distinction between fantasy events in a fantasy world as part of a fantasy story and jokes that are put in by the devs for the benefit of the audience.

You think the devs didn't put in quests where you kill people by the score and are then praised for it wasn't also put in for the benefit of the audience? What you are attacking here is the concept of meta humor, I won't even tell you if I feel it's funny or not, because world of Warcraft is riddled with it. It's everywhere, real life events, people, jokes and memes told throughout nearly every zone, some entire zones like Uldum are meta jokes. Harrison Jones is as much or little a part of the story as Master Baiter is.

So if you want to go that route I think your argument looks even weaker, to be honest.

[Dhrizzle]

I think if you go down that rabbit hole, you'll quickly find that basically any theme can remind someone of a tragedy.

After all, if someone comes from a wartorn country, those themes might not be as distant as for a person grown up in stable state, disregarding those people that live in unstable countries right now.

Why should a sex joke take you out of the fantasy, does the concept of sex somehow not exist in Warcraft?

It's a weird dissonance of having built a world or fictional societies where war is glorified, which we certainly do not but also at the same believe that said society has achieved such a puritan status and rid themselves of any sexual innuendos - not just one but ALL of them.
The bar of "other real-life people would find it funny" is a low one when talking about a video game because virtually anything is put in for entertainment.

I'm going to sound like a broken record, but the "Twin Consorts" weren't meant to be funny, they were meant to make a point that Lei Shen basically holds ownership over the only female Mogu's in existence.
It's a powerplay on Lei Shen parts, it's to create scene which highlights how much of an ego Lei Shen has and how much he wants to be in control, not to be entertaining in the "funny" sense.

The same goes for similiar elements, like the renaming of "Damels" in the Un'goro questchain.
This entire chain is a parody of the medival knight going on a quest to save some damsels in distress, yet none of those "Damsels" are in need of saving.

At whose expense comes this humor?
Who is "taken out of the fantasy" here?

Not going to go into the ins and outs of whether sex-slavery is an appropriate way to make a character seem edgy or whatever because I haven't gone as in depth into the changes as some of the people here.

My point is that a lot of the jokes and stuff being changed are obviously out-of-world humour or pop-culture references and this can be more jarring than worst events or behaviours that are more part of the fantasy setting.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, to problem is that both are implemented within the game, with little to no distinction of the jokes from the lore or setting. Sure, some break the 4th wall and are clearly references, but some can be taken as entirely fitting within the setting of the game lore. Where do you start to make these distinctions? Why are jokes or controversial/sexual topics not ok, but violent jokes ok?

I think you're asking the wrong person, these decisions are being made by the Blizz devs not by me and given the amount of screeching it's caused from the easily-triggered parts of the internet I doubt they'll be motivated to go through and explain exactly why each change is being made.

[Redroniksre]

Not going to go into the ins and outs of whether sex-slavery is an appropriate way to make a character seem edgy or whatever because I haven't gone as in depth into the changes as some of the people here.

My point is that a lot of the jokes and stuff being changed are obviously out-of-world humour or pop-culture references and this can be more jarring than worst events or behaviours that are more part of the fantasy setting.

The Ace Ventura one was removed for a different reason than that. But if they were to just remove out-of-world humor than that eliminates a good chunk of content. I mean you might as well wipe Uldum and Westfall off of the map, since they are almost entirely pop culture. Removing this stuff for that reason would be entirely stupid.

[Dhrizzle]

The Ace Ventura one was removed for a different reason than that. But if they were to just remove out-of-world humor than that eliminates a good chunk of content. I mean you might as well wipe Uldum and Westfall off of the map, since they are almost entirely pop culture. Removing this stuff for that reason would be entirely stupid.

Are Uldum and Westfall integral parts of the world or just one-liners tacked on as a joke?

[Redroniksre]

Are Uldum and Westfall integral parts of the world or just one-liners tacked on as a joke?

The zones are integral parts, but a large chunk, if not the main chunk of their quests are entirely pop-culture. You can't make the argument that they remove things because of that reason, but then turn and say "But those are fine, because they are integral".

[Dhrizzle]

The zones are integral parts, but a large chunk, if not the main chunk of their quests are entirely pop-culture. You can't make the argument that they remove things because of that reason, but then turn and say "But those are fine, because they are integral".

Yes I can, there's a massive difference between pop-culture references that are integrated to become part of the world and ones that are tacked on to one-liners to be thrown out regardless of context.

[bloodkin]

Yes I can, there's a massive difference between pop-culture references that are integrated to become part of the world and ones that are tacked on to one-liners to be thrown out regardless of context.

So it's fine to delete entire zones and their content, just because?

With that reasoning, wow should be deleted, as it just contains shitty references to time periods, other fantasy works etc. Regardless of context.

[Kralljin]

Not going to go into the ins and outs of whether sex-slavery is an appropriate way to make a character seem edgy or whatever because I haven't gone as in depth into the changes as some of the people here.

Considering Blizzard literally referenced in their explanation of that encounter:

Players may have noticed the complete absence of any female mogu in their exploration of the continent of Pandaria. Players who look closely at the models of these celestial twins will note that they seem quite literally carved out of stone.

They actually incorporated that aspect into the game, which i think is overall good, rather than pretend that a given gender doesn't exist because Blizzard was too lazy to create a female model (still waiting for those female ogres).

Now those are just...there, those are the only two female Mogus and nobody addresses this, which is just odd.

My point is that a lot of the jokes and stuff being changed are obviously out-of-world humour or pop-culture references and this can be more jarring than worst events or behaviours that are more part of the fantasy setting.

I don't see this as a removal of pop culture references, only those that may have sexual implications.

Disregarding that only a minority are "obviously out-of-world humour".

Why wouldn't a female dwarf joke about her thighs, for example?

Please, as long as Cata Westfall or Uldum exists in their current form (and those are just the tip of the iceberg as far as "a bit too much on nose pop culture reference" is concerned), playing the "pop culture reference" card is just damn stupid, the vast majority of those changes aren't even a reference to pop culture.

You admitted that you haven't looked over all of those changes, now i implore you to look over those changes made over the past weeks, come back and tell me whether the vast majority of those are "obviously out-of-world humour".

[Dhrizzle]

So it's fine to delete entire zones and their content, just because?

With that reasoning, wow should be deleted, as it just contains shitty references to time periods, other fantasy works etc. Regardless of context.

That's the opposite of what I was saying.

[Redroniksre]

Yes I can, there's a massive difference between pop-culture references that are integrated to become part of the world and ones that are tacked on to one-liners to be thrown out regardless of context.

Except in this case Finke Einhorn appears more than once, and as more than a one liner throw away. In fact he appears 5 different times and is the main quest giver for the Blackrock Caverns quest chain. So that argument also really doesn't work here.

[Martymark]

It's good to see them removing all negative language towards women in the game. Now they just need to remove ALL negative language towards men in the game.

They are totally going to do that now right? Right?

[bloodkin]

It's good to see them removing all negative language towards women in the game. Now they just need to remove ALL negative language towards men in the game.

They are totally going to do that now right? Right?

It's interesting how gender equality is almost never about equality for all, regardless of gender, but more: 'mah gender needs moar rights than urs, cous u had it gud, so now ur gonna rot'. Always gives me hope in humanity.

[Okacz]

Ok that does it. Finkle was an innocent bystander. He never did anyone any harm, ate his breakfast and said his prayers every evening. He didn't deserve this, he might have watched Ace Ventura but he only laughed at Jim Carreys funny face.

Who's next? Thermaplugg? Croman? Kargath? No one is safe anymore.