What exactly does blizzard learn from each expansion?

[Divada]

There's always been this belief that even if something is well recieved (see: expansive world zones in Vanilla, Suramar, Wotlk Glyph system, Ulduar hard modes, WoD world treasure) it must be changed to keep the game 'fresh'. Same with class design. WoW should be firing on all cylinders in terms of its design at this point but because of the massive and usually unneeded changes we keep getting haphazard outcomes and sloppy results. Just think of all those times a class has played brilliantly one expansion, only to turn into a complete turd in the next expansion.

It's defensive design philosophy, and it's almost resentful of anything that worked well previously. WoW devs have always argued that massive change each expac keeps the game from dying, but I would argue that poor design outcomes have wounded the game more than anything else.

And don't get me started on the game's story. No department in WoW is more insular, defensive and resistant to feedback than the writing team.

[ohwell]

Well at the very least, they learned that randomized legendaries suck and made it so you can actually target the specific legendaries you want, some of which are returning legendaries from Legion. I'd say that's something of an improvement

And yet "player feedback" has sat and complained about the current legendaries being "unfun" and other phrases that can't be supported or quantified when you ask them. Legendaries in SL is yet another case of "don't listen to the loud minority". Hell the change they have on the patch is utterly ridiculous and not what most of us wanted and a pretty useless change considering you can actively farm all of the ash and cinders you need in one day in 9.1.5 so why would it matter to break down a legendary. Most people wanted a shredder for the base items not the actual legendaries.

- - - Updated - - -

There's always been this belief that even if something is well recieved (see: expansive world zones in Vanilla, Suramar, Wotlk Glyph system, Ulduar hard modes, WoD world treasure) it must be changed to keep the game 'fresh'. Same with class design. WoW should be firing on all cylinders in terms of its design at this point but because of the massive and usually unneeded changes we keep getting haphazard outcomes and sloppy results. Just think of all those times a class has played brilliantly one expansion, only to turn into a complete turd in the next expansion.

It's defensive design philosophy, and it's almost resentful of anything that worked well previously. WoW devs have always argued that massive change each expac keeps the game from dying, but I would argue that poor design outcomes have wounded the game more than anything else.

And don't get me started on the game's story. No department in WoW is more insular, defensive and resistant to feedback than the writing team.

Except the writing hasn't changed. It's just a meme to say the writing in BFA and SL sucks. When confronted those people don't know how to articulate exactly what changed. "Oh Saturday Cartoon villain" "No that would be Illidan and Lich King considering neither Sylvanas nor the Jailer told us their plan while we could still stop them...." "Well...well just shut up she's twirling her mustache".

If the writing is bad now, it was always bad.

[Lolites]

I can't even give them this benefit of the doubt.... Mage tower was a startling success it felt like a bolt out of the blue. They replaced it with a shitter version via visions and now its in a god awful "what the fuck did you do!" state with choreghast.

they have... nothing in common? and shouldnt have, both purpose and execution of mage tower is something completely different than that of visions/torghast... saying visions (or torghast) are shittier version of MT is like saying warfronts are shitier version of idk, sunsong ranch...

and btw, even if it is something completely different so it shouldnt realy be compared, visions were imo FAR FAR better than mage tower

[Khaza-R]

When Blizzard learns things it feels like they take 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards.

I think Horrific Visions are a good example of this and how they translated these lessons into Torghast. They did good by removing the most annoying feature of HV which was currency grind. But they also removed the best feature that made it semi-bearable with it giving semi-viable gear. They basically just re-packaged the endless grind component as instead of having a weekly cap increase they just make Legendaries obsolete each patch.

In essence they do learn from somethings, but its often invalidated by the new and even bigger mistakes they make.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

How to regurgitate certain systems that keep you playing long periods of time that are time gated by artificial obstacles implemented so that you don't complete it right away... and how to fine tune those systems to the point where the least amount of complaining will come from it per expansion.


CURVE BALL: this expansion has had the most complaining from the player base. THEY FAILED.


Although I don't have a problem with them. I still enjoy playing the game. It's the people who don't enjoy the game anymore but keep playing it who have the problem... and those who have since quit but can't stop complaining about the game they don't play anymore.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The long and short: Nothing. They, never learn anything, or if they do they purposfully ignore it for some arcane reason.

[Argorwal]

My guess is next expansion they change back to removing any sort of secondary progression from world content and such the forums pan it as boring with nothing to do other than raid then log out and subs drop massively.

[Divada]

Except the writing hasn't changed.

That's kind of the point. WoW's writing has always been a mixed bag. You go from excellence like the Pamela Redpath chain to absolute garbage like Uldum. What you can argue HAS changed is that the story is more in your face than it's ever been, with zones primarily taken up with Main Plot storylines, buffeted by cutscenes and endless voice acting. HOW the story is being told has changed, and the quality of storytelling has to improve to meet those new challenges. It hasn't.

[Xath]

They don't

[Postmasters]

How to regurgitate certain systems that keep you playing long periods of time that are time gated by artificial obstacles implemented so that you don't complete it right away... and how to fine tune those systems to the point where the least amount of complaining will come from it per expansion.


CURVE BALL: this expansion has had the most complaining from the player base. THEY FAILED.


Although I don't have a problem with them. I still enjoy playing the game. It's the people who don't enjoy the game anymore but keep playing it who have the problem... and those who have since quit but can't stop complaining about the game they don't play anymore.

I think a lot of it stems from their dogged determination to keep people out of the content they enjoy and force feed them garbage.

I am sure some players enjoy daily quest zones but I imagine the overlap between them and players who value conduit upgrades and gem slots are few and far between.

[Kauko]

That other MMO devs have NO clue what they are doing and blizz can sleep on old trophies for couple of years more...

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well at the very least, they learned that randomized legendaries suck and made it so you can actually target the specific legendaries you want, some of which are returning legendaries from Legion. I'd say that's something of an improvement

In the same turn they stopped the overwhelming majority of people from ever trying out new legendaries, as that simply turns into a giant gold grave. In legion I had at least a few legendaries I used in non-instanced content for fun. That died completely in SL.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Nothing, they are operating multiple years in advance.
They can't just take feedback that "I hate everything" and scrap their down-the-road plan.

Story is probably the biggest one.
I have a feeling they tried to make a hard pivot on story in BFA into Shadowlands.
I propose that THRALL was supposed to die, and that this story would usher us into Shadowlands somehow, but they changed it to him being alive and I wonder if that's because Chris has agreed to be more active again.

[Lochton]

Has anyone noticed that it doesn't seem to ever come from player feed back?

Just to pick out a few from legion onwards (I could go back further but just for a bit of brevity) .

Legion: players loved artifact weapon appearances but disliked artifact power. Blizzard trashed the cosmetic parts of the system and kept artifact power going forward.

BFA: Players despised all the power systems that increasing got more and more obnoxious as the expansion continued onwards. In shadowlands these systems didn't just survive they multiplied.

I don't even see any self awareness in shadowlands since in 9.1 they added a massive time gate tied to grinding via gem sets they effectively lock you out of higher level raiding till you have them. I have to admit it is starting to feel more like spite then simple ignorance of what their playerbase wants.

People want new things, but not too different, or too many, as well, people don't want new things.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Blizzard learned that they can release only one barebones content patch per year and still make billions off of $50 expansion box purchases, $15 monthly subscriptions, and jam packed cash shop.

[ohwell]

That's kind of the point. WoW's writing has always been a mixed bag. You go from excellence like the Pamela Redpath chain to absolute garbage like Uldum. What you can argue HAS changed is that the story is more in your face than it's ever been, with zones primarily taken up with Main Plot storylines, buffeted by cutscenes and endless voice acting. HOW the story is being told has changed, and the quality of storytelling has to improve to meet those new challenges. It hasn't.

That makes absolutely no sense as the change you stated is an improvement. You'd rather just keep reading quest text all day? You are the person they shouldn't be listening to.

[Soon-TM]

Well at the very least, they learned that randomized legendaries suck and made it so you can actually target the specific legendaries you want, some of which are returning legendaries from Legion. I'd say that's something of an improvement

Yeah... and in the same breath, they tied leggos acquisition to Snoreghast, which in my book is the worst piece of !@#$ ever developed in this game.

[FlemmMinis]

People buy anything as long as it's from Blizzard.

[Soon-TM]

In the same turn they stopped the overwhelming majority of people from ever trying out new legendaries, as that simply turns into a giant gold grave. In legion I had at least a few legendaries I used in non-instanced content for fun. That died completely in SL.

Also this, for baby Jesus murloc's sake.

[Mendzia]

They still probably can't believe that there are still people liking the game and what they are doing with their company.