"World of Warcraft: Exploring Azeroth - Kalimdor" Lore and Updates [Spoilers]

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I never got the "racial stereotype" thing. People keep bringing up "Goblins must be jews!" or "Trolls and jamaican voodoo", but they never felt like a real life culture. They felt like their own thing. Every fantasy race borrows from real life. Feels like looking for things to make drama about.

[eillas]

WoWhead is becoming a joke with their garbage takes.

Also people who insinuate goblins are jews unironically are some of the biggest closet racists out there.

First off, I am jewish.
Well... When you look at goblins being big nosed, greedy, and having a new jersey accent. NY and NJ are considered to have the highest jewish population in the US. It's hard not see them as a jewish stereotype.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

this is not an excuse, anyone in the horde could have thaught him, like you know, someone from his own tribe, receiving subpar education and none at all are completely different things

given that he’s an orphan it could be that his father would have taught him but he died in the wars and there is no public education system shown any where in wow.

Given his age as well he likely wouldn’t have learnt to read while young given that the dark spears would have been just leaving the eastern kingdoms and running from the alliance and then having to build a whole new place to live and then dealing with losing that new place to the naga and moving again to org.

[Ersula]

First off, I am jewish.
Well... When you look at goblins being big nosed, greedy, and having a new jersey accent. NY and NJ are considered to have the highest jewish population in the US. It's hard not see them as a jewish stereotype.

Yeah. They're good for what they are: A unique & alien thing like Ferengi in Star Trek: If you're going to point out resemblance to an inhuman caricature, you have to bring up how all depictions of Dwarves draw from the works of JR Tolkien, and he was always like "Dwarves are jews. I based them on jewish people. Hairy & Short."

But at the same time someone writing fantasy should be aware of this & definitely not lean into it, as they seem to have done here with the kompf-esque well-poisoning conspiracy

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I never got the "racial stereotype" thing. People keep bringing up "Goblins must be jews!" or "Trolls and jamaican voodoo", but they never felt like a real life culture. They felt like their own thing. Every fantasy race borrows from real life. Feels like looking for things to make drama about.

All characteristics, except superficially, of fictional cultures come from real life cultures & lets not limit a thoughtful analysis based on what the most ignorant person in the room thinks. It's almost like this is an argument that constantly gets thrown out to derail a conversation & surely that's not what you're trying to do.

Right?

[Syegfryed]

given that he’s an orphan it could be that his father would have taught him but he died in the wars and there is no public education system shown any where in wow.

Given his age as well he likely wouldn’t have learnt to read while young given that the dark spears would have been just leaving the eastern kingdoms and running from the alliance and then having to build a whole new place to live and then dealing with losing that new place to the naga and moving again to org.

First of all, this only keep bringing back the fact that they are portraying the horde as a bunch of savages who cannot read or write, only a few people, if, they are taught by the "major races"

Zekhan is young enough to be born in the echo islands where the horde was being established, trolls don't grow slow like humans, nevertheless, anyone from the darkspear or from orgrimmar could have taught him, that is a matter of fact, he is a shaman, he learned how to be a shaman from other shamans, they could not even teach the dude how to read?, unless of course, everyone is a dumbass, even the shamans, and can't teach what they don't know.


It.make.no.fucking.sense a blood elf teaching a troll how to write and read, troll or orcish, that are, the main languages of the horde.

This would only make sense if Someone had taught him common, so he could speak with the alliance races, (not lorthemar, because he is a leader, he i not supposed to have time to do that, even Thrall knew common, Baine, why it ahve to b Lorthemar?) but the book does not show that.

The book is obnoxious, who wrote have no idea how the Horde works, completely ignores the fact that orcish is the main language and trolls would know that and their own language, the book precisely makes look like Zekhan is a primitive who need to be taught the basics from the elf leader.

[Feanoro]

If you're going to point out resemblance to an inhuman caricature, you have to bring up how all depictions of Dwarves draw from the works of JR Tolkien, and he was always like "Dwarves are jews. I based them on jewish people. Hairy & Short."

You do understand that he was an outspoken defender of Jews and critic of Nazis? Or is this just the typical "I heard X and assume the worst, then pass my ignorance along" behavior beloved by the woke crowd?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

First of all, this only keep bringing back the fact that they are portraying the horde as a bunch of savages who cannot read or write, only a few people, if, they are taught by the "major races"

Zekhan is young enough to be born in the echo islands where the horde was being established, trolls don't grow slow like humans, nevertheless, anyone from the darkspear or from orgrimmar could have taught him, that is a matter of fact, he is a shaman, he learned how to be a shaman from other shamans, they could not even teach the dude how to read?, unless of course, everyone is a dumbass, even the shamans, and can't teach what they don't know.


It.make.no.fucking.sense a blood elf teaching a troll how to write and read, troll or orcish, that are, the main languages of the horde.

This would only make sense if Someone had taught him common, so he could speak with the alliance races, (not lorthemar, because he is a leader, he i not supposed to have time to do that, even Thrall knew common, Baine, why it ahve to b Lorthemar?) but the book does not show that.

The book is obnoxious, who wrote have no idea how the Horde works, completely ignores the fact that orcish is the main language and trolls would know that and their own language, the book precisely makes look like Zekhan is a primitive who need to be taught the basics from the elf leader.

All it shows is Zekhan can’t read or write it makes no broader statement on the rest of the horde by doing such as the book seems to note other places where the horde obviously reads/writes.

So that brings the question why can’t Zekhan read or write?

we know org and the echo isle have no public education system, we know Zekhan is an orphan, so public learned is off the table and so is being taught by his parents, could the shamans have taught him? Sure they could have but most shamanism isn’t taught text and if they are mainly focusing on teaching shamanism they likely wouldn’t take time out of there actual jobs to do reading and writing, he also isn’t a great or all that well educated of a shaman if shadows risings is any thing to go off of.

Then there’s the idea of him seeking out some one to teach him or his father doing it when he was still alive. For seeking some one out it seems odd that he would do so unless he’s working a job where he needs to read/write (he wasn’t he was a foot solider) as there would be far more pressing skills to pick up for a troll in such a area and in such a time frame. Then there’s also all the actively in his life span to take into account. He’s young like what 20? So he could have been like 5 or so when the dark spears left the stranglethorn, if his father was a soldier they likely wouldn’t have a lot of time to impart extra skills in between, leaving there jungle, fleeing the alliance at sea, setting up the echo isle, being driven out of the echo isle, going to war with the alliance, retaking the echo isle, dying. If he was born on the echo isle there would be even less time to impart more important skills to him then reading and writing.

As far as Lorthemar goes Zekhan is/was being trained as an ambassador and likely future council leader for the horde, it would make perfect sense to learn from the other leaders and Mabye reading/writing was a area where he has little experience with for all the above reasons so Lorthemar took some time to go over it while teaching other things just like how anduin went to all the different capitals and learned from all the different leaders when he was taking a more active roll in the alliance.

[Syegfryed]

All it shows is Zekhan can’t read or write it makes no broader statement on the rest of the horde by doing such as the book seems to note other places where the horde obviously reads/writes.

Him being an average shaman soldier of the horde, who can't write or read his own language and the main language of the horde already show what it needs to be show.

the hord eis made of a bunch of savages who cannot read or write, only save exceptions.

we know org and the echo isle have no public education system,

How do we know that? last time i checked the orphanage of orgrimmar thaught children and take care of then, Thrall would know most of anyone that they need a abre minimum of education.

we know Zekhan is an orphan, so public learned is off the table and so is being taught by his parents, could have shamans have taught him? Sure they could have but most shamanism isn’t taught text and if they are mainly focusing on teaching shamanism they likely wouldn’t take time out of there actual jobs to do reading and writing, he also isn’t a great or all that well educated of a shaman if shadows risings is any thing to go off of.

That is absurd, either the shamans are as much illiterate as him and makes the whole horde a bunch of savages who can't read, its wrong in every damn way you pick it.

good old days of wc3 when the spirits could help the rocs and taurens udnerstnd each other.

As far as Lorthemar goes Zekhan is/was being trained as an ambassador and likely future council leader for the horde, would make perfect sense to learn from the other leaders and Mabye reading/writing was a area where he has little experience for all the above reasons so Lorthemar took some time to go over it while teaching other things just like how anduin went to all the different capitals and learned from all the different leaders when he was taking a more active roll in the alliance.

and they precisely chosed a blood elf to do so, not another race, like Baine, another troll like rokhan, or even thrall himself

he had to learn from an elf

He had to learn orcish and TROL from an ELF

If you cannot see the absurdity of this whole situation, i can't do anything.

[Super Dickmann]

lol fuckin WoWhead...

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...-racial-325248

"Waaah new lore book is racist!!!!"

And of course comments are disabled cause "You might have a different opinion? We'll have none of that!"

"Da's rayciss"! Truly the lowest form of criticism.

The Azshara lore shows the one complaining to be braindead since that's been in the lore and in the Baine story since Cataclysm and not only that, but as he might see as he looks up even the most elementary bit about early factories or even at a glance at the blue rivers next to jeans factories in China, industry is able to pollute. How this is a point of criticism on either the lore or realism front considering how much this kind of critic also touts the environment is beyond me. The idea that a shamanistic culture wouldn't like an industrious, materialistic one or that there are consequences to rapid industrialization are both objects of fact, speaking of which...

The WoW trolls have never been show to place much emphasis on proper penmanship or proper wording, though unlike their real world inspirations, they do have writing. There's a reason the Zandalari were previously the chroniclers of troll society and why they considered the other tribes to be backwards. Memeboi though isn't even a chief's son or someone who'd have to perform a role that'd need such a thing, like the Darkspear mages from back in Wrath who we know use standard letters. He's a young soldier, now a diplomat and him having to learn writing from someone from a culture who places much more emphasis on this or to be taught concepts that he'd never use in his daily life is completely reasonable.

But stepping aside from how the criticism comes from a dilettante regarding WoW lore, it also comes from a dilettante regarding actual history and fantasy writing. Every race in Warcraft and fantasy in general use real world cultures for inspiration, it's a function of the genre. But hell, let's say that the trolls are a 1 to 1 riff on the pre-Columbian societies and pretend the conventions of the fantasy genre don't apply in the current year. Even better then as of Aztec, the Inca or the Mayans, the visual inspirations of the trolls, only the Maya had a phonetic writing system in the modern sense, but used pictograms and pictures to transmit ideas. The trolls having elaborate shrines and inscriptions but not having what's basically a regular dude be able to write formal letters is astoundingly accurate and historically literate on Blizzard's part. Trolls have however never been depicted to tie up children, maim them so they're constantly crying and then sacrifice then en masse to ensure good rain though, so I guess their depiction could still use some work. Apply yourselves in the future, Blizzard.

Onto actually worthwhile criticism, yes, Gazlowe is massively out of character and the lines were plainly meant for Gallywix. It's likely that this book was in the pipeline for such a long period of time that they just swapped the names rather than change the text, something carried out by the same underpaid intern who forgot what the Dark Portal was and fucked up the title portion of every page. They are fine lines for Gallywix though. I miss him.

[NoiseTank13]

Man

the lore/story department really is a warren of brain damaged rabbits

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Him being an average shaman soldier of the horde, who can't write or read his own language and the main language of the horde already show what it needs to be show.

the hord eis made of a bunch of savages who cannot read or write, only save exceptions

yes it shows that war orphans signed up to be foot men at a young age can have gaps in there education, that’s not at all a surprising outcome and doesn’t reflect what other family’s in the horde would be like.

How do we know that? last time i checked the orphanage of orgrimmar thaught children and take care of then, Thrall would know most of anyone that they need a abre minimum of education.

no form of public education has ever been show cased any where in wow, and we know peasants in both the alliance and horde aren’t well educated based off west fall and orc peons. We know that groups like the cenarian circle will take people in and teach them there ways but no race has ever been shown to be teaching youths in a formal setting meaning education likely comes from the family structure which we see in a few places both in quest and comics.

That is absurd, either the shamans are as much illiterate as him and makes the whole horde a bunch of savages who can't read, its wrong in every damn way you pick it.

good old days of wc3 when the spirits could help the rocs and taurens udnerstnd each other.

or you know the shamans know how to read/write but won’t take time out of there life’s to teach some one else’s kids something that is mostly unrelated to shamanism as it isn’t there job.

and they precisely chosed a blood elf to do so, not another race, like Baine, another troll like rokhan, or even thrall himself

he had to learn from an elf

He had to learn orcish and TROL from an ELF

If you cannot see the absurdity of this whole situation, i can't do anything.

why would it matter if he learned from baine thrall or any one else? In all cares he’s still illiterate and We already know they all can read so it’s not like they can’t teach him because they don’t know it showing the orcs cows trolls as savages. It’s likely that Lorthemar is used as a reference through out the book for Elvan history which would mean it would make sense for him to be some one Zekhan can bounce other ideas or problems off of, something we wouldn’t see in one or two passages ripped out of context and posted on wow head.

[Chelly]

Without having read this entire thread - why the hell would the Draenei be on cordial/friendly terms with the Horde?
I guess no one in the game gives a shit about the night elves?

[Thestrawman]

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up. This is clearly just a couple of Horde members point if view on the goings on of Kalimdor. We just need to wait a few years to get the full pictures from some Alliance members as they explore Kalimdor themselves and tell you the real sorry of what's going on.

[Syegfryed]

yes it shows that war orphans signed up to be foot men at a young age can have gaps in there education, that’s not at all a surprising outcome and doesn’t reflect what other family’s in the horde would be like.

he is not a mere foot soldier, he was a shaman, akin to mages, they receive high training, the minimum they could get is a better life and education than normal people

being an orphan is not an excuse for him not being literate until a blood elf comes up.

no form of public education has ever been show cased any where in wow, and we know peasants in both the alliance and horde aren’t well educated based off west fall and orc peons. We know that groups like the cenarian circle will take people in and teach them there ways but no race has ever been shown to be teaching youths in a formal setting meaning education likely comes from the family structure which we see in a few places both in quest and comics.

Again, there is a big difference between common people and soldiers, let alone shamans, soldiers of high rank need to at least know how to read, a shaman should know that, he was trained just like the players were in the beginning of the game.

or you know the shamans know how to read/write but won’t take time out of there life’s to teach some one else’s kids something that is mostly unrelated to shamanism as it isn’t there job.

yeah, they can't take time, but a blood elf will.

the moment they realise their student are illiterate, they would tech him the basic, you argument could, make sense, if it was a warrior, you could pretend to say "they would just teach how to beat up shit" but even then would know that reading is necessary.

why would it matter if he learned from baine thrall or any one else?

it would show anyone in the horde can do that and they don't need a elf to do so, it would show horde races are not savages and pretty capable.


Again, this hole bit is obnoxious, how can an elf teach a troll how to read and write orcish or troll, this preposterous the book only helps to force bad stereotypes for the horde.

[Varitok]

Its amazing how night elves can lose like 90% of their population and yet there is absolutely no consequence to that.

Sylvannas is really fucking sorry okay?!?! She promises that her blue eyes and new soul are here to stay.

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I love how 90% of this is, "You're part of that faction that genocided a whole race indiscriminately? Sure! Come on in and have a seat by the fire!"

No one even seems mad at all. Even the Draenai, who share some kinship with the night elves, are on the most friendly terms with the Horde?

[Syegfryed]

No one even seems mad at all. Even the Draenai, who share some kinship with the night elves, are on the most friendly terms with the Horde?

Draeneis are the people who doomed dozen of worlds while fleeing from the legion, for anything, thy are being true to their story and not giving a shit about others

[Ardenaso]

looks like the Warcraft 3 purists are always right after all

[Mendzia]

lol fuckin WoWhead...

https://www.wowhead.com/news/world-o...-racial-325248

"Waaah new lore book is racist!!!!"

And of course comments are disabled cause "You might have a different opinion? We'll have none of that!"

Wowhead current year:
'You can't have your own opinion about X thing. Here is what you should think about it and don't you even dare making any comments below!'
Holy fk... what a shitshow this site became.
I'd also love to see these people who are mad about 'reinforcing negative, harmful, and racial stereotypes'. Who and where are they?

[eillas]

The book got pulled. I just checked barnes and noble also amazon

[Feanoro]

The book got pulled. I just checked barnes and noble also amazon

Only a matter of time until races are updated to reflect proper woke values, new Blizz fully responds to Twitter mobs' outrage du jour.