How do the Shen'dralar Highborne and the void elves (ren'dorei) view each other?

[OwenBurton]

Both the Shen'dralar Highborne (the trainers of the new night elf magi) and the void elves (the ren'dorei) are fairly prominent elven groups in the Alliance - or at least the void elves are, the Shen'dralar were interesting when they first rejoined the kaldorei, but nowadays, seem to be much less prominent.

They both share certain similarities:
1. They are both of Highborne heritage
2. They are both seekers and keepers of forbidden knowledge, and are reasonably adept at the arcane arts.
3. Both their peoples have secluded and isolated themselves for the most part for thousands of years.
4. Both were exiled from their original homes (Eldre'Thalas and Silvermoon) by the Horde, although understandably so.
5. Both were at least originally mistrusted and misunderstood by much of the Alliance.

I wonder if there is any interaction between them? For example, what would happen if Mordent Evenshade met Magister Umbric or Alleria Windrunner, for example?

Or in more general terms? Would it be possible if the two groups (with such low numbers after the Fourth War) tried to work together and cooperate, even if out of sheer pragmatic necessity, exchanging their knowledge and skills with one another? Would most of the Highborne view the void elves positively, and vice versa? And how would their quel'dorei (high elf) cousins view both of them, most likely?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I don't think they care.

[Varodoc]

An interesting topic.

I don't remember much about the Shen'dralar, but after skimming through their Wowpedia page, I understood that the Shen'dralar are:

1) Power-hungry
2) Obsessed with knowledge (so much so that Wrathion even remarked their great knowledge)
3) They bent a demon to their will and fed on its energies
4) Eventually the population was too high, not everyone could sate their thirst for magic, which led to
5) The Prince and his people slaughtering many of their own kin to thin their numbers, and ensure that the survivors can fully gorge themselves in the Demon's power.

With this in mind, it's easy to see how the Ren'dorei and Shen'dralar are similar. They are both power-hungry, they seek knowledge that other, weaker wills avoid, they are not afraid to bend evil powers to their will. They are also pragmatic, methodical, and ruthless. While I don't believe the Ren'dorei would literally slaughter their people for more power, they are not afraid to employ unsavory tactics like animating corpses to scare their enemies.

If Alleria or Umbric were to meet Evenshade, they'd undoubtedly reminisce about their common Highborne heritage, and how they were all shunned by their people, because of the powers they sought. Then they would chat a bit about how they are all elves driven by knowledge and power, and how they have both meddled with dangerous, insidious powers (the Void, the Demon Immol'thar).

I wouldn't mind seeing such a plotline, even if it's just a short questline. The two peoples are undeniable similar in terms of backgrounds and ambitions. I believe there is a story that can be told there.

[Dellis0991]

I think the Shen'dralar would have a divided view on the void elves or maybe they would approach the the void elves with caution. The Shen'dralar have been hurt badly by playing around with power they should've never dove into so they know what it feel like when stuff goes wrong so I can see them sympathizing with the void elves. I could also see a good number of Shen'dralar being intolerant or simply not wanting to interact with them for mirroring the same dangerous curiosity as they once did. Nobody wants to be burned twice.

[OwenBurton]

I think the Shen'dralar would have a divided view on the void elves or maybe they would approach the the void elves with caution. The Shen'dralar have been hurt badly by playing around with power they should've never dove into so they know what it feel like when stuff goes wrong so I can see them sympathizing with the void elves. I could also see a good number of Shen'dralar being intolerant or simply not wanting to interact with them for mirroring the same dangerous curiosity as they once did. Nobody wants to be burned twice.

The void elves could teach the Shen'dralar some of their skills. The Highborne night elves seem somewhat outdated in their arcane arts - and they desperately need an upgrade of some kind, or else blood elves and the Horde will continue to defeat them.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

TBH I think they could get along quite well, similarly to how BE and NB do. I think a big detriment the HB have is that even with the reintroduction of arcane magic into society, it's still an outlier of the kaldorei way of living.

They could find kinship with the VE (and HE) as inheritors of their Highborne legacy, but maybe unlike NB and BE, perhaps even focus on those darker and more taboo aspects, as they also have a dark past with Eldre'Thalas.

[sighy]

Somehow i doubt that would be addressed, but it could be a dynamic of humbled weariness contrasted to the Velves's hubris amidst their power trip. Because the Shen'dralar have already been burned by a volitile power, while the Void Elves were rescued fromt eh consequences of their actions and doubled down, with the caveat that they are eventually going to go insane and could turn into a tentacle monster at any moment. (The last part strikes me as Blizzard special of say somethign and then proceed to show the exact opposite)

[OwenBurton]

Somehow i doubt that would be addressed, but it could be a dynamic of humbled weariness contrasted to the Velves's hubris amidst their power trip. Because the Shen'dralar have already been burned by a volitile power, while the Void Elves were rescued fromt eh consequences of their actions and doubled down, with the caveat that they are eventually going to go insane and could turn into a tentacle monster at any moment. (The last part strikes me as Blizzard special of say somethign and then proceed to show the exact opposite)

Yes, Wrathion noted the Shen'dralar also experimented with Void energies in Eldre'Thalas, they summoned a void hound for thousands of years after all, so perhaps the void elves could find their research of tremendous interest.

[Tanaria]

It's hard to judge, but I'd expect the Ren'dorei Farstriders (Warriors, Rogues, Hunters etc) to not consider the Shen'dralar for anything outside of the fact that they also studied the void.

The Ren'dorei Magisters and Warlocks - now these are the Elves whom I'd expect to liaise very closely with the Shen'dralar. Now, I'm not sure whether Mordent Evenshade would speak to them in the ways of their interests; however we do know that at least one of the Lorekeepers from the dungeon is still alive, Lorekeeper Mykos - so it's possible that she would be more open with speaking to the Ren'dorei regarding all things Arcane, Fel and Void. Maybe even the Highborne Mage from Cataclysm who seeks to restore Eldre'Thalas as well. (Can't remember his name)

[ravenmoon]

Both the Shen'dralar Highborne (the trainers of the new night elf magi) and the void elves (the ren'dorei) are fairly prominent elven groups in the Alliance - or at least the void elves are, the Shen'dralar were interesting when they first rejoined the kaldorei, but nowadays, seem to be much less prominent.

They both share certain similarities:
1. They are both of Highborne heritage
2. They are both seekers and keepers of forbidden knowledge, and are reasonably adept at the arcane arts.
3. Both their peoples have secluded and isolated themselves for the most part for thousands of years.
4. Both were exiled from their original homes (Eldre'Thalas and Silvermoon) by the Horde, although understandably so.
5. Both were at least originally mistrusted and misunderstood by much of the Alliance.

I wonder if there is any interaction between them? For example, what would happen if Mordent Evenshade met Magister Umbric or Alleria Windrunner, for example?

Or in more general terms? Would it be possible if the two groups (with such low numbers after the Fourth War) tried to work together and cooperate, even if out of sheer pragmatic necessity, exchanging their knowledge and skills with one another? Would most of the Highborne view the void elves positively, and vice versa? And how would their quel'dorei (high elf) cousins view both of them, most likely?

Well the Shen'dralar ARE highborne, the ren'dorei are highborne heritage

I would love to see interaction between them personally.

If blizzard cared to, the ren'dorei could actually develop a very strong friendship with the Kaldorei:

1. Void elves with the Highborne:
OFc, they have the whole highborne thing in common - so they should get on quite well

2. Void elves and the Order of Elune
Night warrior void magic would be of significant interest to void elves, and helping new night elves of the black moon sect better handle this type of magic could make for a welcome alliance

3. Void elves and the druids
THe nightmare is a problem, who better to team up with to protect Azeroth than the void elves, druids and the void schoalrs meet, let's solve this and give Azeroth a fighting chance, utilsie the void incursion and turn it to our benefit. Rid it of void if possible, utlisewhat you cannot get rid off - teaches Azeroth how to handle void - could e a breakthroug, not to mention void ellf druids

= kaldorei and ren'dorei deep freidnship on professional level and not just "oh your city is pretty" and "oh your city is pretty too" , you showing me the respect i deserve, so we are now BFFS.

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Somehow i doubt that would be addressed, but it could be a dynamic of humbled weariness contrasted to the Velves's hubris amidst their power trip. Because the Shen'dralar have already been burned by a volitile power, while the Void Elves were rescued fromt eh consequences of their actions and doubled down, with the caveat that they are eventually going to go insane and could turn into a tentacle monster at any moment. (The last part strikes me as Blizzard special of say somethign and then proceed to show the exact opposite)

That's a good point, however the whole point of the void elves is that they are not going to give in to the whispers cos they have found a way.

Elune helping Tyrande control the night warrior void power would also be of significant interest tot he void elves.. it can help them gain greater mastery, and would endear the high priestess to them as she would be teaching them - might also create some void elf followers of Elune.

Tbh, I would want the void elves to appeal to more than Highborne. however there is also good highborne and priest interaction, this use to be a thing before Azshara's addiction and jealousy. so it would be nice to see this reconnection play out amongst the kaldorei and ren'dorei. And the beauty of it is that it's very different from the Nightborne and blood elf relationship.. which is a plus.

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TBH I think they could get along quite well, similarly to how BE and NB do. I think a big detriment the HB have is that even with the reintroduction of arcane magic into society, it's still an outlier of the kaldorei way of living.

They could find kinship with the VE (and HE) as inheritors of their Highborne legacy, but maybe unlike NB and BE, perhaps even focus on those darker and more taboo aspects, as they also have a dark past with Eldre'Thalas.

YEs, they can get on to a similar decree of affection but the way we get there totally different.

Belf/NnElf friendship came because Liadrin showed them respect and was more friendly than Tyrande's night elves - even though they have a closer working relationship with the broken isle night elves for both the Arcan'dor andMoonwells

VElf/NElf freindship can come through work and developed interest. Magical research with the Highborne, Void control with the priesthood, void interactions with nature in the Emerald dream for the druids. That's across the spectrum, and as for demon hunters, they would share a connection in handling difficult powers and the burden of a ceaseless discipline.

Basically they can connect with every facet of the kaldorei.

[Rhlor]

we have no information because they never interacted. but I suppose they would have to get along well they are magicians and the shendrelar are not exactly very strict in their morals they used a demon to feed themselves.
it would be great to have warlock night elves

[Aucald]

we have no information because they never interacted. but I suppose they would have to get along well they are magicians and the shendrelar are not exactly very strict in their morals they used a demon to feed themselves.
it would be great to have warlock night elves

I'd imagine most Night Elf Warlocks swiftly became Satyr Warlocks during the War of the Ancients.

[Beloren]

we have no information because they never interacted. but I suppose they would have to get along well they are magicians and the shendrelar are not exactly very strict in their morals they used a demon to feed themselves.
it would be great to have warlock night elves

Ever since someone mentioned it on these forums, the best source of night elf warlocks would be if Illidari DHs had a spell caster version that used the warlock class.

They are the only night elves that handle demons.

Highborne do not - the whole point of cats and the alliance with the Darnassians is that they were free of corruption and addiction

Darnassian night elves we play are either Order of Elune - Priest, hunter, warrior or rogue , Druid or Mage. They are as anti demon as the Draenei - except for the Illidari who use them to destroy them

[Rhlor]

Ever since someone mentioned it on these forums, the best source of night elf warlocks would be if Illidari DHs had a spell caster version that used the warlock class.

They are the only night elves that handle demons.

Highborne do not - the whole point of cats and the alliance with the Darnassians is that they were free of corruption and addiction

Darnassian night elves we play are either Order of Elune - Priest, hunter, warrior or rogue , Druid or Mage. They are as anti demon as the Draenei - except for the Illidari who use them to destroy them

Shendrelar use a demon

[OwenBurton]

Isn't that creature a void being of some kind? Hence, why Wrathion visited Eldre'Thalas while researching ways to combat the Old Gods' corruption during the last expansion?

[Combatbutler]

Isn't that creature a void being of some kind? Hence, why Wrathion visited Eldre'Thalas while researching ways to combat the Old Gods' corruption during the last expansion?

Immol'thar has been described as a demon in every single lore source regarding it.

[Aucald]

Isn't that creature a void being of some kind? Hence, why Wrathion visited Eldre'Thalas while researching ways to combat the Old Gods' corruption during the last expansion?

Taxonomically it's called a "Void Terror," but it's classified as a demon and was summoned from (and banished back to) the Twisting Nether and not the Void. It might be a void creature that was twisted into demonhood by the Legion at some point, like a few of the Legion's constituent races, or it's just another rank and file demon that just so happens to have the word "void" in its name. There are void-related aberrations called void hounds, like Shad'har in Ny'alotha, with a resemblance to Immol'thar - so it's possible Immol'thar began its life as a void hound before being corrupted by the Legion into a demonic void terror.

[Mace]

Immol'thar has been described as a demon in every single lore source regarding it.

So too a the void lord's warlocks can summon, yet they are void based beings. It's clear that demons are a type of classification for multiple beings and race types, and they are not exclusively y fel or fel based or fel corrupted. Demons are drawn to fel off course, some wield it very well as like Great Beyond beings they are intelligent despite their nature. Some would hold enormous amounts of arcane power which Immol'thar did . It's more an arcane terror, demon definitely, but the type is clearly arcane demon if you ask me.

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Well the Shen'dralar ARE highborne, the ren'dorei are highborne heritage

I would love to see interaction between them personally.

If blizzard cared to, the ren'dorei could actually develop a very strong friendship with the Kaldorei:

1. Void elves with the Highborne:
OFc, they have the whole highborne thing in common - so they should get on quite well

2. Void elves and the Order of Elune
Night warrior void magic would be of significant interest to void elves, and helping new night elves of the black moon sect better handle this type of magic could make for a welcome alliance

3. Void elves and the druids
THe nightmare is a problem, who better to team up with to protect Azeroth than the void elves, druids and the void schoalrs meet, let's solve this and give Azeroth a fighting chance, utilsie the void incursion and turn it to our benefit. Rid it of void if possible, utlisewhat you cannot get rid off - teaches Azeroth how to handle void - could e a breakthroug, not to mention void ellf druids

= kaldorei and ren'dorei deep freidnship on professional level and not just "oh your city is pretty" and "oh your city is pretty too" , you showing me the respect i deserve, so we are now BFFS.

Also @Vaedan and @Varadoc

They could make the interactions void elves have actually interesting. I seriously wish they do because they need to build up the lore on the race substantially. I think interactions with humans and Night elves should be the big races they're involved with.

1. With Humans - since fans want it, a lot of focus on the high elf side of things, that old nostalgic alliance original core of human, elf and dwarf can be built largely through the high elf contingent. however the purple void elves, like night elves as well, are treated more suspiciously by humans, they're just use to high elves more of that could be explored.

2. Void elf / night elf. Rather than just slap friendship on, this is an excellent opportunity to view a healing between Thalassians and night elves. As Thalassians generally hate night elves for the e exile, but then high/void elf and night elves have had to work together, you can't exactly explore this healing wit blood elves. this can be interesting here and the void elf interaction with various night elven factions can actually make their relationship and story just interesting
a) Highborne This is the where it can start, friendship, the Shen'dralar and void elves have a knowledge thing, but also Highborne connection as void elves are descendants, and Shen'dralar never exiled them. But Darnassian Highborne play a large part in the Shen'dralar led caste, so it can start with void elves initially distinguishing the two and then gradually accepting. We could have some new stories too that explore the exile, , and why some of those former Darnassian Highborne (now Highborne again, but were druids for most of the long vigil) , stood by Malfurion, , but how every single one of them voted against a death sentence, how some had doubts too and desperately wished they could help and prove Darth'remar right but were too risky, and how some actually did help the Sunstrider group get magical artifacts and aid for their journey. Kept the secret of Quel'thalas once the Ban'dinoriel were up and while they couldn't join, believed and hoped for the Sunstriders to succeed and wonder the night elves would be able to return and the elves would heal.

b) The priesthood - based on the compassion of Elune and curiosity of the void powers wielded, Tyrande knowledge on being able to now control an incredible arcane/void power is extremely attractive to the void elves, and the priesthood of Elune being compassionate and inquisitive scholarly group - this is a side that we know exists in ight elf lore, but haven't really been shown. Here is an opportunity to show the arcane knowledge and lore of the priesthood, how they were the first to study the Well in the quest to communicate greater with Elune and contact her more, and how the priesthood built up it's arcane lore too and how it was different from application focused mages. The reason why magecraft was also banned can be explored in depth here, the books give us the right direction, the way night elf mages used magic greatly for applications like conveniences, wonders and building etc, was by drawing on the wall , unlike the priesthood their use is source intensive, and it is using the source that lit up Azeroth eventually catching the legion's attention.

We can also explore that because of the priesthood actually demons had never made it to Azeroth through the night elves' exploration of the arcane, because of the knowledge they had accumulated and their goddess led wisdom, - this knowledge is generally Order of Elune only knowledge and when the mage order arose, it was originally lots of priests using the arcane for applications but it became it's own discipline that the males generally took quite well too, turns out that it was a female, Azshara that became the brightest light in that field, but she wasn't a priest, it would be after she had built a substantial and through depth of the field and class, that it would none other than Sargeras to bypass the priesthood's watchful gaze and seduce/entice the Queen to do what she eventually ended up doing.

Void elves can find extra knowledge and strength in withstanding the whispers in a way that actually protects them greatly, meanwhile some becoming pragmatic acolytes of Elune studying with the priesthood and a friendship connection begins. Elune priests visiting Telogrus rift to to understand, and learn from the void elves too a s well as teach.

c)The druids. Though the priesthood has this new Blackmoon sect and mastery over using great void powers, it is the void elves that are experts in the nature and study of the void, as well as it's diverse applications far beyond battle spells. in a similar way to how priests were different from mages, again with the void the power is for combat, just like they never used the arcane for applications like mages and building, but it was the goddess sacred power used strongly in battle (hence the Starfall, Lunarbolt, Starshards etc type spells), but the priesthood don't use the arcane for every day applications and it's study is mostly (though not entirely ) from a philosophical and spiritual basis. The Waters of the Well of Eternity are sacred Elune waters, the purity of the arcane is concern and focus, purity of heart and mind, discipline in the face of power - you can understand why the priesthood never had addiction or pride issues while handling the arcane because tied to the Goddess, it always kept them humble and off course discipline , a spiritual mental attribute is a prime focus for a priest , not a mage. The same is for the void. Void elves deal with applications of the void interactions and combinations with other magics like the arcane, weaponizing it and utilising it too, so it stands to reason NATURE is another aspect they explore.

The druids knowledge of nature is incredible, greater than the blood elf and high elf botanists, and off course, all elves love nature, so some void elves like any elf group have elves amongst them particular into nature, and their focus is studying the void with nature - ways to help nature, utilise the void in nature, and naturally the druids need help with the emerald dream. so they team up with vid elves, and this is how void elves learn druidism, and also are able to assist the planet Azeroth defend against the nightmare - and inevitable their interaction s in the Emerald dream actually end up teaching Azeroth how to handle the void without giving into to corruptive whispers.. they teach the dream to instead deal with the void, able to reverse its effects, but in other instances and places the damage is too much, too utilise the void to protect itself and actually create things.


This can be a really interesting avenue to explore in void elf lore and night elf lore and you can see a friendship with the night elves in all their areas leads to a healing of the past. night elves didn't hate the Thalassians as much as the other way round. And accepting the Shen'dralar and then the revelations of Legion, meeting the Farondis and seeing how the bravest heroes against the legion and Azshara were actually Highborne, coupled with how well the Shen'dralar were able to overcome corruption and addiction have all helped really heal the night elves view of their former caste. Which the pre-sundering era ended with hatred and contempt for their hubris and folly (as well as self hatred and contempt) but a chance to start over and build a new relationship arises.

The Highborne have their goals and aims to restore the respect and admiration of their kin. Despite their caste's stained legacy, they were once it's most noblest leaders, and free of corruption and addiction, hasn't caused them lose any of that nobility and leadership and excellence. Those the rest of the kaldorei have grown immensely now as well, and the Highborne leaders find themselves having to prove themselves to a much higher calibre of druids (the calibre of priests were always here, high in the pre-sundering era, and still high today via Tyrande and their Elune connections) Friendship with void elves, return of the Farondis and their nobility and the drive and restoration of the Shen'dralar has really softened the night elves to their kin immensely, allowing them to actually view the many positive aspects of the void elves, and the high elf history, positive aspects that the fear or arcane mismanagement drawing the legion and the sins of the past had previously obscured.

Basically the night elves can now see a lot of good the high elves did and by extensions the void elves are doing and can do, and all this helps to strengthen their ties.

This can be a fascinating exploration well beyond the type blood elves and Nightborne have which is "oh just freinds".. and void elves can afford this because actually they have a lot more story to tell, that other allied races like Nightborne, Highmountain, Zandalari, Mag'har all had substantial wow content to tell their stories before becoming playable

[Varodoc]

The Ren'dorei are now in a prime position to lead the Alliance, with their leader Alleria Windrunner serving as the chief advisor to Regent Turalyon.

One thing is for certain, because they are in a prime position to lead (or co-lead) the Alliance, they will certainly have the chance to interact with other races more frequently.

As in accordance with my predictions, I have been predicting for years that the Ren'dorei would end up playing a pivotal role for the Alliance, which is the faction they joined.

I can see the Ren'dorei and LF Draenei spearheading the Alliance's war efforts against the potential threats coming from the Dark Portal (Lightbound).

[Beloren]

The Ren'dorei are now in a prime position to lead the Alliance, with their leader Alleria Windrunner serving as the chief advisor to Regent Turalyon.

One thing is for certain, because they are in a prime position to lead (or co-lead) the Alliance, they will certainly have the chance to interact with other races more frequently.

As in accordance with my predictions, I have been predicting for years that the Ren'dorei would end up playing a pivotal role for the Alliance, which is the faction they joined.

I can see the Ren'dorei and LF Draenei spearheading the Alliance's war efforts against the potential threats coming from the Dark Portal (Lightbound).

You are assuming blizzard can actually shift focus entirely away from humans and heavily focus on developing Night elf, draenei, void elf and dwarves - the 4 most popular alliance races in that order.

So far, it has been well noted that alliance races all interact soley with humans and not with each other. That ice started breaking a bit in 8.1

To be fair it makes so much sense that:
night elves/Void elves/Dranei, Worgen (the humans that are tight with night elves)/draenei & Pandas - become very tight.

Humans/dwarves/high (void) elves/Lightforged draenei and gnomes - become very tight. (Humans include Kul'tirans and Gilneans)


Night Elf Friendship Circle:

1. Night elves
2. Void Elves
3. Draenei
4. Worgen
5. Pandaren
6. Dark Irons

Human friendship Circle

1. Humans
2. Kul'tirans
3. Gilneans
4. Lightforged Draenei
5. High/void elves
6. Dwarves
7. Gnomes
8. Mechas