M+ needs back Titanforging

[enigma77]

What if they added warforging/titanforging but it was exclusively from the Great Vault

that beats the whole fucking point lol

it's about being rewarded for actually playing the game, not sitting around and waiting for some stupid chest to give you your expected and boring loot

in Shadowlands M+ has become a degenerate checklist for the weekly vault, with no way to get any actual loot out of the dungeons after some time (when you can't upgrade items further with timegated Valor crap)

in Legion and most of BFA it was something you could play forever, it was evergreen content and amazing, because you could always get something

the ideal system would be to restore Titanforging, but keep Valor around, so you can still make steady progress even if you're very unlucky

[Stoffmeister]

that beats the whole fucking point lol

it's about being rewarded for actually playing the game, not sitting around and waiting for some stupid chest to give you your expected and boring loot

in Shadowlands M+ has become a degenerate checklist for the weekly vault, with no way to get any actual loot out of the dungeons after some time (when you can't upgrade items further with timegated Valor crap)

in Legion and most of BFA it was something you could play forever, it was evergreen content and amazing, because you could always get something

the ideal system would be to restore Titanforging, but keep Valor around, so you can still make steady progress even if you're very unlucky

I respect your opinion, but the fact is you are a severe minority. You dream about the good things about tf, but the majority of the playerbase disliked it and they changed it.

[Ahraa]

Titan/Warforging was never fine. It should not ever come back. If it does, there needs to be a way to manually grind out item upgrades to offset RNG.

[sensei]

I respect your opinion, but the fact is you are a severe minority. You dream about the good things about tf, but the majority of the playerbase disliked it and they changed it.

Actually no they didn't, at best it was probably more like 50/50. This was a case of the people that whined the loudest being heard while those who were happy with the system just played the game. This is the reason that all those people that cry about "Blizzard won't listen to the players" don't know what the hell they're talking about, because they do listen but there is literally no way you'll ever make all or even most of the players happy anymore. Blizzard could announce they are giving everyone 10 million gold and a full mythic raiding set mailed to them and there would be thousands crying foul.

[Ange]

in Legion and most of BFA it was something you could play forever, it was evergreen content and amazing, because you could always get something

the ideal system would be to restore Titanforging, but keep Valor around, so you can still make steady progress even if you're very unlucky

With 48000 hours playtime and raiding since vanilla the biggest fun I had was in LEGIONs legendary world tour raiding, where a day-1-noob was looking for gear and was taken to fill up the raids and the mythic raider with 99% BiS gear was also there for some old content titanforge proc that could make his gear 99.1%.

=> everyone was welcome and everyone had a reason to spend time with PVE/raiding

50-70+ clears of EACH raid tier PER DIFFICULTY at the end of the expansion were seen.

People who liked PVE or raiding in general had their fun with constant PUGs doing every week everything in every difficulty.
People who like "competitive raiding" every 6 months for 1-2 weeks did not like it and generated a lot of toxic bullshit with youtube's and twitch's impact at that time.

WF/TF that made every raid tier of the expansion a worthwhile time spend for gearprogression was fine and fun and you had zero issues finding groups at any time of the week or day.

The icing on the cake is, that despite all this efforts from the 0.1% raiding community pushing their agenda all those years, blizzard still kept the vault with maxed TF = mythic raiding ilvl (outside of a few exceptions).

Mythic raiders made older raid tier just as dead as in previous times (< LEGION) and they still did not got what they wanted - gear advantage via a huge gearprogression wall.

[crakerjack]

Our gear should be a reflection of the effort we put into the game. If you don’t push yourself to do +15’s or mythic raid, then you don’t deserve 252+ gear. The people who have that armor put in the required effort to get it, and so should everyone else.

[Accendor]

Titan/Warforging was never fine. It should not ever come back. If it does, there needs to be a way to manually grind out item upgrades to offset RNG.

Yeah, because not paying the game is better than playing the game, right...

[AlmightyGerkin]

Our gear should be a reflection of the effort we put into the game. If you don’t push yourself to do +15’s or mythic raid, then you don’t deserve 252+ gear. The people who have that armor put in the required effort to get it, and so should everyone else.

Early in game around Vanilla - wotlk cataclysm era that was a thing. You knew who pushed the higher content and got rewarded for it. Then the need for Blizzard to have a more equality environment gutted that and now a lot of people are on the same gear playing field.

[Orwell7]

Blizzard actually tried so hard to cater to every "type" of gamer they pissed off everyone, because x/y/z type of player never felt that any system is in favor of them.

So... what is good for everything accomplishes nothing. GG

[erifwodahs]

With 48000 hours playtime and raiding since vanilla the biggest fun I had was in LEGIONs legendary world tour raiding, where a day-1-noob was looking for gear and was taken to fill up the raids and the mythic raider with 99% BiS gear was also there for some old content titanforge proc that could make his gear 99.1%.

I was in a big guild who had like 3-4 raiding groups varying from total noobs to CE mythic raiders and I actually was running these raids on Saturdays for AP/Lego/TF before ToS raid came out so better part of first year. It was really engaging TBH, we would get anyone who wanted to come fro EN and ToV normal/HC, NH normal and then as many as we could through NH HC. That was legit every Saturday and and engagement was insane, more people would sign up than I could take in every time even if description clearly said that loot prio for high TFs goes to our raid groups members and normal loot is just usual roll (ML was a thing back then), I think we had some restrictions for NH, so people didn't take a piss with their 840ilvl alts and we could get more guild noobies with their actual mains in, but in general everything was very well received, despite my raid leading style being something I would now call douchebaggy, I could imagine it would be only more popular now, with some proper raid leading/team building experience and growing out of my edginess.
All that + killing bosses under a minute actually made it fun even if you didn't need anything - you could just show off with insane gear and log some parses on old raids.

[thunderdragon2]

that beats the whole fucking point lol

it's about being rewarded for actually playing the game, not sitting around and waiting for some stupid chest to give you your expected and boring loot

in Shadowlands M+ has become a degenerate checklist for the weekly vault, with no way to get any actual loot out of the dungeons after some time (when you can't upgrade items further with timegated Valor crap)

in Legion and most of BFA it was something you could play forever, it was evergreen content and amazing, because you could always get something

the ideal system would be to restore Titanforging, but keep Valor around, so you can still make steady progress even if you're very unlucky

no just no i don't want to be ENDLESSLY gearing any longer its THE worst system ever added in this game imo i want to be able to get my gear at base ilvl eventually and say done, ad as for some1 thats full 252 form the m+ vault section that's great if you make loot drops titanforgeable you have to me the vault items titanforgable also then its a never ending cycle of titanforging that should never happen.


i will make this VERY clear so every1 gets the point.

VERY FEW PEOPLE LIKED THE COMPOUNDING RNG THAT WAS IN THE GAME DURING TITANFORGING WHICH WAS WHY IT WAS CHANGED MANY JUST WANTED THE GEARING TREADMILL TO END I DOUTTHE OP WILL FIND MAY PEOPLE THAT WOULD WANT IT BACK.

also a note for the mods im not shouting with the caps im just trying to stress a point if there is a reason for why using caps to stress a point is wrong plz let me know.

[klaps_05]

The issue with Titanforging was that there was no system alongside it to account for bad rng. Imagine if we had Titanforging AND valor points upgrades. This way you can still get excited when something drops and can make up any bad luck with valor points upgrades. Players issue is they always think binary - i have EITHER this OR that. We need smart systems with support systems, not just ONE singular flawed system.

[Zenjie]

Nah.

Just bring own set for transmog goals from M+.
Every raider can show off with great looking set from n/hc/mythic.

m+..? nothing.

[Vynx]

Actually no they didn't, at best it was probably more like 50/50. This was a case of the people that whined the loudest being heard while those who were happy with the system just played the game. This is the reason that all those people that cry about "Blizzard won't listen to the players" don't know what the hell they're talking about, because they do listen but there is literally no way you'll ever make all or even most of the players happy anymore. Blizzard could announce they are giving everyone 10 million gold and a full mythic raiding set mailed to them and there would be thousands crying foul.

Really good take. I was just thinking that, compared to Legion and BfA, I do a lot less M+, while this is my main activity.

I miss that burst of dopamine when an item got wf/tf. Now it's just one 15 for the weekly and see ya next time.

[Zoibert the Bear]

This is the worst idea I have come across today.

[Xath]

Yeah, because not paying the game is better than playing the game, right...

It actually is in terms of preventing burnout. Before blizzard became obsessed with making sure there was some way to always improve your character you very rarely saw burnout. People might take breaks but they almost always came back. Legion started at a high water mark but people felt forced fo grind crazy hard with both final trait and legendary rng. BFA more of the same slands cov bs meant 4 characters both to see story and just in case. Everytime fewer and fewer people come back post burnout.

Now if someone tells me they plan to take a break I basically don't expect to see them again. FOMO is insanely unhealthy game design unless you game relies on whales. Blizzard has engaged in mobile game design but they don't have banners people are dropping thousands into which offset others leaving. It's become extremely evident. Titanforging would just speed this process up. Something to actually offset the rng nature of the chest would be to let you choose tokens and then spend them to use on an upgrade piece that you could get one per 3 weeks but could then use it on a specific item to upgrade it to max level of what you had cleared. So you couldn't just upgrade to mythic sylv loot unless you had killed her.

[Twdft]

It actually is in terms of preventing burnout. Before blizzard became obsessed with making sure there was some way to always improve your character you very rarely saw burnout. People might take breaks but they almost always came back. Legion started at a high water mark but people felt forced fo grind crazy hard with both final trait and legendary rng. BFA more of the same slands cov bs meant 4 characters both to see story and just in case. Everytime fewer and fewer people come back post burnout.

I'm not so sure about that. Of course we don't have actual numbers so this is all speculation, but you have to remember that players doing harder organized content always were and always will be a minority, about 10% of all players. These players may be more prone to feel (or be peer) pressured into running Maw of Souls 14 hours a day. The other 90% not so much.

Before Legion there was a very a clear community message to Blizzard about "there's nothing to do" and Blizzard answered with endless grinds. Which are fine if you as a person are able to pace yourself and not endlessly grind. This ability is absent in a lot of players who then burn out. For example I have not a single char rank 6 Korthia and I don't see me burning out from the game. I look at the grinds and decide which ones are worth doing.

[chiddie]

The issue with Titanforging was that there was no system alongside it to account for bad rng. Imagine if we had Titanforging AND valor points upgrades. This way you can still get excited when something drops and can make up any bad luck with valor points upgrades. Players issue is they always think binary - i have EITHER this OR that. We need smart systems with support systems, not just ONE singular flawed system.

TF works only if the loot quantity is D3 like.

With loot being actually non existent, for me it’s a big fat noes.

- - - Updated - - -

Our gear should be a reflection of the effort we put into the game. If you don’t push yourself to do +15’s or mythic raid, then you don’t deserve 252+ gear. The people who have that armor put in the required effort to get it, and so should everyone else.

You are confusing effort with difficulty. For example fishing for 200 hours requires more effort than doing a couple of M+ per week, it’s only easier.

Also, once again this game’s playerbase proves itself more worried about what others can get doing what instead of simply having fun doing things they like.

[Stormdash]

"this room temperature raw chicken needs to have toilet water poured on it"

[Accendor]

It actually is in terms of preventing burnout. Before blizzard became obsessed with making sure there was some way to always improve your character you very rarely saw burnout. People might take breaks but they almost always came back. Legion started at a high water mark but people felt forced fo grind crazy hard with both final trait and legendary rng. BFA more of the same slands cov bs meant 4 characters both to see story and just in case. Everytime fewer and fewer people come back post burnout.

Now if someone tells me they plan to take a break I basically don't expect to see them again. FOMO is insanely unhealthy game design unless you game relies on whales. Blizzard has engaged in mobile game design but they don't have banners people are dropping thousands into which offset others leaving. It's become extremely evident. Titanforging would just speed this process up. Something to actually offset the rng nature of the chest would be to let you choose tokens and then spend them to use on an upgrade piece that you could get one per 3 weeks but could then use it on a specific item to upgrade it to max level of what you had cleared. So you couldn't just upgrade to mythic sylv loot unless you had killed her.

I don't know man, everyone I knew was always annoyed when there was nothing to do and left. Only time that did not happen was during Legion. Best time of WoW for a decade.