Mafia 144 - Is there a Doctor in the House?

[Xanjori]

I'm sorry about the RL stuff. That really sucks and it sounds rough to deal with. I hope you don't lose the job and you feel better.

What makes you think Cereal didn't get the prize? Just that he was asking about it or did he actively tell you that?

Because I would imagine he wouldn't know what the reward is if he didn't get it. And it very much seems like the reward wasn't rescinded until Cereal talked about it in thread based on Foxxi's post. I don't see why he would have lost it and had that communicated privately for Foxxi to later clarify in the thread with the most convenient timing ever.

Because he kept asking more questions on just when I got mine, how I got told, what exactly it was and how I could use it.

Honestly it felt like he invited me to the chat just so he could find out information about the gift.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Because he kept asking more questions on just when I got mine, how I got told, what exactly it was and how I could use it.

Honestly it felt like he invited me to the chat just so he could find out information about the gift.

Did you receive your prize immediately after posting?

[Xanjori]

Did you receive your prize immediately after posting?

Yes I did.

[CerealLord]

Because he kept asking more questions on just when I got mine, how I got told, what exactly it was and how I could use it.

Honestly it felt like he invited me to the chat just so he could find out information about the gift.

Well, that was the secondary reason, yes and I admitted as much to you and the thread. I posted in my chat when I saw the game had gone live (like 6 hours after it had) immediately Neighborizing you due to the fae game

[Psycho666Soldier]

Yes I did.

Then there's absolutely no way the discussion of gifts caused him to not get one. It seems like that rule only exists for those who receive the gift, not everyone else. It's possible the discussion got his taken away, but it's clear that only happened after he disclosed it with the thread.

He never told you what he received and apparently even told you he didn't get one. So for you to push that his discussion in the neighborhood was motivated by him not getting one makes no sense when it's clear he at least had one until he made the post about your BPV claim and claimed his Doctor prize.

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Like I can see a world where Cereal is fishing for info on your prize and maybe lied about receiving a doc for the sacrifice of pushing you for a game-winning lynch.

But the fact you're pushing a world with facts that just aren't true makes me feel like your argument is made in bad faith.

[Xanjori]

But the fact you're pushing a world with facts that just aren't true makes me feel like your argument is made in bad faith.

Not sure what you mean by this.

[Psycho666Soldier]

And yes Im well aware there are multiple rewards, I got the first and Cereal tried to get the second, but the discussion of gifts caused him to not gain one. We even discussed in the chat whether or not Graeham or Psycho had deliberately sabotaged it for him having realised the gifts were in play and not wanting town to get them. Literally all Cereals information on the prizes is what I've revealed to him.

I've not lied about my prize at all, I still have it in my possession obviously.

You're pushing this worldview when it can't possibly be true. Cereal was the first to post butterfly today and would have received his reward already. We wouldn't have had the post from Foxxi saying the reward isn't in play in response to his big reveal post if he had been told his prize was taken away beforehand in private.

In fact, you would know he lied about not having a reward because you know you got yours immediately. And you would know that you had your BPV taken away for discussing it with him. You haven't claimed the latter, and knowing the former, I think your first post today would be much more sus of Cereal. You only voted him/called him a liar in retaliation to him doing it to you first.

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We wouldn't have had the post from Foxxi saying the reward isn't in play in response to his big reveal post if he had been told his prize was taken away beforehand in private.

I really want to hammer home how this doesn't make sense mechanically.

-No one in thread actually discussed the reward until Cereal's big reveal
-Foxxi's post promptly followed, and was worded mechanically rather than as some kind of mod intervention/clarification
-If Foxxi had contacted them privately about it previously, she wouldn't have posted the thread clarification because that's the kind of grey area of doubt that mods build into their games. It would be space for wolves to hide in or town to try fancy shit.

So the idea that Cereal somehow had it revoked before revealing his reward in-thread is ridiculous.

[Xanjori]

I did want to argue this but honestly Ive got about 1 braincell working and its just telling me its tired and in pain. Sorry I really did wanna try make an argument today but Im literally incapable.

Vote: Xanjori

[Psycho666Soldier]

I did want to argue this but honestly Ive got about 1 braincell working and its just telling me its tired and in pain. Sorry I really did wanna try make an argument today but Im literally incapable.

Vote: Xanjori

*Hugs*

Get some rest, dude

[CerealLord]

I did want to argue this but honestly Ive got about 1 braincell working and its just telling me its tired and in pain. Sorry I really did wanna try make an argument today but Im literally incapable.

Vote: Xanjori

Feel better man. I look forward to arguing with you in another game

That being said if anyone hammers Xanjori before closer to the end of the day, I am going to automatically assume you are scum.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I definitely want to hear from everyone before the phase ends.

I'm gonna look for connections to Xanjori. I still feel like he and Marack are linked, but it's not written in stone. I don't think there's much stopping him from being with the other four, but that's what I want to try and confirm.

[Clawsout]

Why not just unvote and keep him at l2

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Seems stupid to leave him in hammer range

[Psycho666Soldier]

I was gonna unvote with the caveat that I get to be the hammer, but I'm not really gonna be around much after a couple hours

And I want my pelt, damn it

[Xanjori]

Unvote .

[Psycho666Soldier]

Far too nice tbh

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I mean in general I dislike throwing out votes, I think that is well known. If I had to pick right now. Honestly its difficult. Pyscho has made more an effort to actually make an impact in the later phases of today. Robo has been here without really influencing the game it feels? Cereal has a lot of posts, I started ISOing and got busy, thats my bad.

Uh Claws...is being Claws. I dunno I never read him well it feels, can Foxxi come in and tell us if this is his game or not?

I kinda wanna vote Cereal, but he is doing some posts that if he was a wolf would be power wolfing, and I really dont think Cereal has that in his locker.

I guess Graeham, Robo, Claws would be my top 3 to vote for right now.

The way he just kind of keeps reading Claws as "Claws is Claws" and arbitrarily throws him in a list of 3 is pretty meh. In general, I think there's a decent chance he has a partner in this list of 3. All of his reads are pretty vague, though, and not really giving much in terms of who's actually wolfy?

Actually, it's interesting that he has Grae in his top 3 to vote but never actually gives any explanation as to why...

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Early on, Xan responds to Grae about spelling out town plots for scum to get a better POV, and I can't help but feel it has an air of him opening the door to shade Grae. So maybe that's a hangover? But then again, it's just weird he has him in a list of "would vote" when he has said not a thing about Grae's alignment.

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I tend to hit reply on posts as I get to them. You also coulda just summarised and posted it for me!

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Right now my "Don't want to lynch" are Cereal, Bwon, Robo and Lora. In fact I think I'd include Val here too, although for slightly different reasons to the others.

I could lynch literally anyone else.

Who I want to lynch though is tough. I think I would want to lynch marack less than the others. So my POE is Claws/Graeham/Psycho.

Noted that he makes mention of Marack out of nowhere as far as least wanting to lynch.

Not sure if Xanjori would be trying to straight wolfside at this point or if he's trying to prepare for distancing when he gives this POE.

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The flips are interesting but not unsurprising imo. I need to re-read through some things and then make a proper post. Our day 1 seems hard to work with, I wondered if we could look at the Lora CFD as a way to save Robo but his train had died quite a few hours before IIRC. It seems that mafia did decide to deal with the Val "problem" which I kinda expected.

And here, it seems like Xan was at least testing the waters for a Robo lynch, so I think I'd be willing to bet on Robo town at this point. It's not like anyone was outed at this point, and they easily could swerve to just about anyone on the lora train that isn't me or Cereal.

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Yeah, Xan's posts are pretty vague overall so not a lot of reliable information there from my perspective.

Proba my be more fruitful to see how everyone else was playing around Xan

[Clawsout]

I see what you mean may loom into others to see how they reacted towards xan give better picture yes yes

[Psycho666Soldier]

Given the win condition of merely being recruited, they're a threat after being recruited too. It's very interesting the way this one is built. They know who the mafia are ahead of time, they die on N2 if they aren't recruited by then. There's the issue of if the traitor feels there's no chance of being recruited by then, they can just betray the mafia out of spite. The mafia would probably have only 2 members to start if there's a traitor. If they choose not to recruit even if they know who it is, then they effectively get 2 kills on N2. Honestly, the way it is makes me think it's unlikely we have this traitor in the game. Too many issues in its design that could effectively ruin the game.

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As an aside, I don't wish to lynch Lora today. This is entirely because he pointed out the doctor role card said there's no doctor. This by no means means that he is actually town, but I feel like rewarding the player who pointed that out for a day because actually reading through things like that is something that should probably be rewarded...like when I had a professor in university that put a super hard bonus question on the back of an exam but had the exact answer for it in the instructions of page 1 to reward people that actually read through the instructions.

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If you're curious...I did not read the instructions closely enough to notice my professor had done that, but he was eager enough to explain what he did after the fact.

Worth noting that Xan was touting lora as town for reading the setup and sharing info about the doctor. I believe Cereal was, too, but it stuck out so I figured I'd mention it

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Not the most detailed stuff, nor very rigorous in analysis, but here's a list of my current thoughts on the players. Copy/pasted from my discord channel, which is a lame mclamesauce replacement for QT.

Bwon: Not much going on here. Haven't played a lot with her, and what I remember was somebody that kind of drifts about only half knowing what she's doing, but she feels kind of reserved to me, holding back and stuff. Willing to vote.

Cereal: Very active. Definitely pointing out reads on players and such. Methinks he doth protest too much in relation to Claws prodding him, reminding me of scum called out for BS reasons. Initially I leaned town, but that issue makes me put him into neutral territory with me thinking I need to keep an eye on him.

Claws: Dirty tiger ice cream lover (ew, who the hell likes licorice?). That aside, been fairly active, has pressed against Cereal which got a reaction out of him that gave me one of my stronger opinions on somebody's play, so that's a plus in my books. Prefer not to lynch.

Graeham: I...don't really remember much of anything going on here. I'd probably need to look over the thread again. At this moment, I'm not unwilling to lynch him.

Lora: Lora is Lora, as always. I'm sticking with what I said before about letting him have a pass for pointing out the "no doctor" bit, at least for day 1. (edited)

Marack: I remember seeing him posting, though the content of his posts escape me for the most part. Looking back at the last couple of pages, I am noticing preferred lynches, reads and such, so I guess that's good at least. Not unwilling to lynch, but certainly not a preferred choice.

Psycho: Making pushes, defending some people. I like what I see, I do not wish to lynch him today.

Robo: This guy is clearly not worth trusting, should definitely die.

Val: Had the most likely joke claim of being the traitor and hasn't been very active. Not unwilling to vote against him, but I don't feel it's likely to net a positive result. As
Psycho had pointed out, if he were scum he'd probably be posting something to try and get out of things. Likewise, if he were a TPR, I suspect he'd do the same, so if he is lynched I fully anticipate a VT.

Xan: Has the curse of a conflicting time zone and/or schedule. Not a lot of interaction as a result which results in lower post counts only made even worse because so many posts are merged into 1 when others don't post between them. Neutral. Not unwilling to vote against him, but I have no particular feelings on him being town or scum.

I had to split that into two posts in Disc because Disc is effing lame. This was after I had already set up the skeleton for it by having a list of names with spaces to fill out my thoughts into. This thing is small compared to what I often end up doing, so this is going to be a constant source of frustration for me.

I like that he doesn't take a neutral stance on Claws, and for the most part, actually gives a lean one way or another about whether he'd be willing to lynch everyone. The Xan read is vague and could be helping support his RL intervention problem, so it doesn't give a lot. But the smallest of points for leaving that avenue open when he could easily have encouraged not lynching him that day.

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As things stand, I have no strong feelings of anybody being scum, which isn't unusual early on. Who I'm willing to lynch is less about who I think is scum, and more about who I don't want to lynch. To break it into 3 simplified categories that remove nuances...

The don't want to lynch right now:
Claws, Psycho, Lora

The don't really want to lynch, but if push comes to shove I'll lynch:
Cereal, Lora, Val

The willing to lynch:
Bwon, Graeham, Xanjori

Also worth noting that he was comfortable townreading myself and knew both me and Cereal were more than willing to vote Claws, but opted to put Claws on townreads. If there are only two wolves, I feel like he'd keep Claws as a possible Lynch target for the day. Not put him in the hard veto pile.

However, if three wolves, I feel less strongly about that.

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Yeah, I mean, Robo is a bit hands-off with Xan so it could go either way. But I feel like his general presence is a good contrast to Xan. He doesn't have much time, but when he does, he posts a bunch and tries to reply to everything and leave the thread with some takes. As opposed to Can who always posted the bare minimum.

Xan obviously had a lot going on and it's not a 1:1 comparison, but this is about the difference I expect from a towny who has limited time and a mafia that has limited time.

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And that's probably it from me today. Leave room for others that want to post/solve, but I'm comfortable with a hammer from my perspective.

GG, Xanjori

[CerealLord]

I will be around to interact but I do not have time currently to do a deep dive on who else can be scum. I will try to do it tonight.

I personally am now okay with the hammer. Psycho has written a ton that I want to go over.

We have about 1 hour and 45 minutes remaining so lets make sure have some people around then to finish this.

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@Clawsout @Bwonsamdi the Dead @Robozerim @Marack

1 hour remains.

[Marack]

I will be around to interact but I do not have time currently to do a deep dive on who else can be scum. I will try to do it tonight.

I personally am now okay with the hammer. Psycho has written a ton that I want to go over.

We have about 1 hour and 45 minutes remaining so lets make sure have some people around then to finish this.

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@Clawsout @Bwonsamdi the Dead @Robozerim @Marack

1 hour remains.

What... A case was made... I feel Xan gave up with the self vote, and I also feel bad for him for the RL shit he's going through

I dont like the "I want to hammer" mentality of psycho... put your money where your mouth is, if you feel that strongly.

[CerealLord]

What... A case was made... I feel Xan gave up with the self vote, and I also feel bad for him for the RL shit he's going through

I dont like the "I want to hammer" mentality of psycho... put your money where your mouth is, if you feel that strongly.

I mean he is voting already on Xan. He just wanted to be the hammer. I pinged you to make sure people were around to actually yeet Xanjori.

We need 2 more votes and have under an hour.