What Would Bring You Back to WoW?

[Miffinat0r]

I think looking to the past to sell rarely ever works. People are evolutionary creatures, just like every living thing, if you think rehashing old ideas in order to grow your market will help you're really capping your potential growth.

WoW should look to what other games are doing and what makes them successful and try to add their spin and polish to those same ideas to innovate the market.

[Thenatural]

I love people making these massive lists of impossible goals that have tons of shit in them that's super specific to their particular flavor of the game.

None of you want WoW to succeed, none of you want the game to get better. It's super sad that you're all still here.

I understand that "hate the thing" is really popular right now and makes people feel included, but come on folks, pull it together.

I would play WoW again in a heartbeat if all of the people who live to shit on it just went away.

[HateTrain]

Nothing super specific. Just have something interesting to show me, and for me to do. Hopefully leaving this Shadowlands nonsense in the dust.

[lacrosseguy108]

maybe if blizz would stop changing shit thats been in the game for years. not gonna make any difference but hey lets make dumb it down to paw patrol or something.. smh bunch of kids working at blizz from what i hear lately..

[Itisamuh]

Removing gear entirely from PvP is the only thing that would make me play WoW again for any real length of time as long as it requires a sub fee.

[DragonsBeard]

I love people making these massive lists of impossible goals that have tons of shit in them that's super specific to their particular flavor of the game.

None of you want WoW to succeed, none of you want the game to get better. It's super sad that you're all still here.

I understand that "hate the thing" is really popular right now and makes people feel included, but come on folks, pull it together.

I would play WoW again in a heartbeat if all of the people who live to shit on it just went away.

So, reducing the over reliance on RNG for progression is impossible?
What about creating less throw away systems for each patch?
Making the existing content stand on it's own instead of forcing player power into them?
Reducing the excessive requirements for flying?

You think these are impossible goals? You are aware that every one of these issues are new additions to the game that didn't exist 3 expansions ago right?

I want the game to be good, and to succeed. Every one of the issues with the game are fixable and in a reasonable amount of time. The only thing not fixable is the shitty community that despite your "i don't play because the haters who keep playing" excuse. You are one of them. Only difference, you direct that hate at the people who want the game better.

[ATZenith]

Content that isn't timegated and reputation gated.
I'm so tired of having to do dailies for everything. I'm not coming back to the game just to be hit with 3 months worth of grind just to play at a sub optimal level.

The only time I enjoyed dailies was with Legion, since you had that small chance for a legendary.

A huge thing is if they changed Arms warrior back to how it was at the end of MoP. Arms warrior was my favorite class until they changed it. It feels very rage starved and clunky since then.

[Kharnath]

Being able to effortlessly solo EVERYTHING that is NOT current content.

Having older content retain EVERYTHING it had when it was current (items, mounts, achieves, etc).

Edit: Remove restrictions on flying.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Bring back all the things they replaced with fruit baskets and pictures of fruit baskets.

[Adamas102]

If you are inexperienced, you have a responsibility to inform the group and to put in the effort to improve. Yes, games are meant to be fun. But it's not fun to wipe for 6 hours because that one "inexperienced" player wasn't upfront about it, unwilling to learn or simply not up to the skill required for the content. It's not fun to lose a Battleground because that one "inexperienced" player wasn't upfront about it or unwilling to learn.

It's absolutely gatekeeping to tell someone "hey you're technically able to play in this area, but since my personal enjoyment is on the line I require you to do these other things before you're allowed to participate". It's like, textbook gatekeeping and in this case fully player driven.

There is no responsibility to play a game a certain way. Period. As long as you're playing by the rules set by the game, of course (and for a video game that pretty much means not exploiting). However way YOU play and enjoy the game is in now way the requirement for everyone else. Until the day comes that Blizzard adds an in-game message when you ding max level that says "when you join group content, please let everyone know you're inexperienced so that they can decide on whether you deserve to play or need to go do some homework" then these arbitrary rules you've created are only for groups you create yourself.

Casual or not, playing a game with a group of people you don't know, means you are able to preform at a base level.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that what you consider "base level" is something you've made up for yourself. The game does have an internal structure for allowing people to queue for certain content based on average ilvl and that's the only base level that matters for general play. If you are able to enter the instance (either via queue or in a group) then you've met the base level that the game requires. Like I said before, you can make your own groups and set your own rules for those, but those rules/responsibilities/expectations aren't universal.

As for the idea of it being "harmful" is "laughable", time finite, not everyone has the time to sit there failing all night because you are not willing to improve. That's harmful, It hurts the enjoyment because, there is no enjoyment to be had if you make no progress because someone ELSE is fucking up repeatedly. If you find it fun, good for you. It's subjective, but clearly, i'm not the one in the minority here.

No one LIKES to lose, but if you literally get zero enjoyment from playing a game if you don't achieve certain milestones then it's probably time to reassess what you're doing with this leisure time of yours. Especially when you're gambling that enjoyment on things that are out of your control like the performance of other people. You're the only one responsible for how your entertainment time is spent so it's completely on you for spending it playing a game that you don't enjoy when other people aren't playing to your own standards.

WoW is designed around repetition so that little dopamine rush of being rewarded is indeed important, but 99% of the game play is wrapped up in attacking the enemy or healing allies. If that alone is considered a waste of time when there's no "progression" then it's either a poorly designed game or you're a masochist spending all your entertainment time doing something that at its core isn't entertaining for you.

[Kyphael]

Mandatory fixes:

• Release quality content and a lot of it. One minor content patch with bad story every year and a half is unacceptable and isn't worth a $15 a month subscription. We also need to return to MoP-era levels of content quality and quantity. Also, stop removing questlines.

• Stop releasing buggy patches and using your paying customers as unpaid beta testers.

• Remove the timegating and the grinds.

• Knock it off with the borrowed power.

• Stop making the game revolve around raiding. Cater to casuals.

• Make PvP rewarding again.

• Fix crafting.

• Get good music again. MoP and WoD had amazing soundtracks, then they dropped the ball starting with Legion.

• Get good writers. The current writers are unable to get the audience invested in their new stuff, and are doing shoddy rehashes of old stuff.

• Optimize the game. WoW used to run very well on low end machines, which is all the more important today when computer hardware is through the roof and will probably continue being so for at least another year.

• Stop designing the game around the WoW token.

• Stop making cramped and claustrophobic zones that are terrible to navigate and unenjoyable to be in.

• Stop mocking your customers.

Enticing stuff that might get me to resub for a while or buy an expac, but won't hold for long without the above fixes:

• Add in player housing. Decorating my apartment in FFXIV was a ton of fun and made me more invested.

• New class with a strong, appealing class fantasy, like Tinker or Dark Ranger.

• Inhuman playable races like Cryptlord Nerubians.

• Class skins. I want to be able to play as a real Sunwalker Tauren, not a Tauren pretending to be a paladin.

• More challenging singleplayer content like the Mage Tower (NEW fights not recycled old fights!). Also more challenging small group content like the Mechagon dungeon. Also, don't make it require a month's long item level grind.

- - - Updated - - -



Also this. One of the things I love about FFXIV is that I can enjoy multiple different class fantasies. The hardest part is levelling up each job to max level, but once at max level it's pretty easy for me to get them geared up and do the latest content with them. Not so in WoW.

Pretty much this, except I want Bard instead of Tinker and I'd also like some playable Ogres or Saberon.

[DragonsBeard]

It's absolutely gatekeeping to tell someone "hey you're technically able to play in this area, but since my personal enjoyment is on the line I require you to do these other things before you're allowed to participate". It's like, textbook gatekeeping and in this case fully player driven.

There is no responsibility to play a game a certain way. Period. As long as you're playing by the rules set by the game, of course (and for a video game that pretty much means not exploiting). However way YOU play and enjoy the game is in now way the requirement for everyone else. Until the day comes that Blizzard adds an in-game message when you ding max level that says "when you join group content, please let everyone know you're inexperienced so that they can decide on whether you deserve to play or need to go do some homework" then these arbitrary rules you've created are only for groups you create yourself.



The thing you don't seem to understand is that what you consider "base level" is something you've made up for yourself. The game does have an internal structure for allowing people to queue for certain content based on average ilvl and that's the only base level that matters for general play. If you are able to enter the instance (either via queue or in a group) then you've met the base level that the game requires. Like I said before, you can make your own groups and set your own rules for those, but those rules/responsibilities/expectations aren't universal.



No one LIKES to lose, but if you literally get zero enjoyment from playing a game if you don't achieve certain milestones then it's probably time to reassess what you're doing with this leisure time of yours. Especially when you're gambling that enjoyment on things that are out of your control like the performance of other people. You're the only one responsible for how your entertainment time is spent so it's completely on you for spending it playing a game that you don't enjoy when other people aren't playing to your own standards.

WoW is designed around repetition so that little dopamine rush of being rewarded is indeed important, but 99% of the game play is wrapped up in attacking the enemy or healing allies. If that alone is considered a waste of time when there's no "progression" then it's either a poorly designed game or you're a masochist spending all your entertainment time doing something that at its core isn't entertaining for you.

So, it's okay to hold up the line because you are "next" but haven't picked what you wanted yet? It's okay to waste everyone else's time because, fuck everyone else, it's all about you. That's what you are saying. It's not your responsibility to be ready and able. Fuck everyone else who put forth the vary little effort it took. It's ALL about what YOU want. YOUR fun is all that matters. That's the take away here. Fuck me, for wanting to make progress. I should just accept you suck and deal with you wasting my time all night, because you are having fun... Oh, right, You expect ME to go out of MY way to make a group and then you get to sit there and tell me how much of an asshole I am because I won't let you in my group. I'm GATEKEEPING!!!

My enjoyment is tied to making reasonable progress. I'm fine failing, and I'm fine letting people who are still learning in my group. I'm not fine letting in people who can't even meet a dps check and fail on the exact same mechanic 15 times in a row with 0 progress. But, again, who the fuck cares about my enjoyment. You are having fun right? It's all about you. Not the 9-39 people you are wasting the time of. They don't matter.. You are having fun.

You are a selfish child who thinks nothing of everyone around you and it shows. "it's just a game" I'm sure you plan on throwing in my face.. Guess what, you are right. It is just a game that takes up REAL TIME. Time is Finite.. I remember saying that already.. I'll repeat it again. Time is Finite. Not everyone has 8 hours a day to piss away on a game. They want to sit down and relax, maybe clear some content and have a close match of pvp. But, their fun doesn't matter.. Only yours. No wonder the games community is shit. It's fill with selfish people like you who only care about what you want.

You must be a blast at parties... Oh wait, everyone else at the party doesn't matter right. Did you have a good time?

[Glorious Leader]

More systems
More borrowed power

[Adamas102]

So, it's okay to hold up the line because you are "next" but haven't picked what you wanted yet? It's okay to waste everyone else's time because, fuck everyone else, it's all about you. That's what you are saying. It's not your responsibility to be ready and able. Fuck everyone else who put forth the vary little effort it took. It's ALL about what YOU want. YOUR fun is all that matters. That's the take away here. Fuck me, for wanting to make progress. I should just accept you suck and deal with you wasting my time all night, because you are having fun... Oh, right, You expect ME to go out of MY way to make a group and then you get to sit there and tell me how much of an asshole I am because I won't let you in my group. I'm GATEKEEPING!!!

My enjoyment is tied to making reasonable progress. I'm fine failing, and I'm fine letting people who are still learning in my group. I'm not fine letting in people who can't even meet a dps check and fail on the exact same mechanic 15 times in a row with 0 progress. But, again, who the fuck cares about my enjoyment. You are having fun right? It's all about you. Not the 9-39 people you are wasting the time of. They don't matter.. You are having fun.

You are a selfish child who thinks nothing of everyone around you and it shows. "it's just a game" I'm sure you plan on throwing in my face.. Guess what, you are right. It is just a game that takes up REAL TIME. Time is Finite.. I remember saying that already.. I'll repeat it again. Time is Finite. Not everyone has 8 hours a day to piss away on a game. They want to sit down and relax, maybe clear some content and have a close match of pvp. But, their fun doesn't matter.. Only yours. No wonder the games community is shit. It's fill with selfish people like you who only care about what you want.

You must be a blast at parties... Oh wait, everyone else at the party doesn't matter right. Did you have a good time?

Chill the fuck out, kid. I'm the overachiever when it comes to gaming. The ex-high end raider, the guy that sets the game difficulty to max, the one that likes to optimize in almost ever game I play (from video games to TTRPG's to CCG's to boardgames and so on). The only difference between you and me is that I recognize that this mentality when it comes to gaming is rare and it's not one that should be pushed on everyone that wants to participate. Oh, and I probably have a lot more general gaming experience than you do since it seems you've wrapped up so much of your fulfillment into WoW.

I've been the asshole I accuse you to be. The guild officer that demanded others go out of their way to meet my standards when what I should have been doing was seeking out an environment more conducive to my preferences. No matter how many times you want to make comparisons to completely irrelevant real world situations, gaming (outside of the professional arena) is purely for entertainment and as long as people are playing within the rules set by the game itself they have no responsibility to meet whatever expectations you personally have.

You want to know how ridiculous your argument is? It's the exact same base argument of someone asking everyone else to not play so well because having the lowest KDA or damage on the meters is ruining his fun. They want others to play worse so that they can have fun, you want others to play better so that you can have fun. That's not how games work. Either you have fun doing your own thing or you find another game to play where you can.

[DragonsBeard]

Chill the fuck out, kid. I'm the overachiever when it comes to gaming. The ex-high end raider, the guy that sets the game difficulty to max, the one that likes to optimize in almost ever game I play (from video games to TTRPG's to CCG's to boardgames and so on). The only difference between you and me is that I recognize that this mentality when it comes to gaming is rare and it's not one that should be pushed on everyone that wants to participate. Oh, and I probably have a lot more general gaming experience than you do since it seems you've wrapped up so much of your fulfillment into WoW.

I've been the asshole I accuse you to be. The guild officer that demanded others go out of their way to meet my standards when what I should have been doing was seeking out an environment more conducive to my preferences. No matter how many times you want to make comparisons to completely irrelevant real world situations, gaming (outside of the professional arena) is purely for entertainment and as long as people are playing within the rules set by the game itself they have no responsibility to meet whatever expectations you personally have.

You want to know how ridiculous your argument is? It's the exact same base argument of someone asking everyone else to not play so well because having the lowest KDA or damage on the meters is ruining his fun. They want others to play worse so that they can have fun, you want others to play better so that you can have fun. That's not how games work. Either you have fun doing your own thing or you find another game to play where you can.

Setting the right expectations is important.. And i doubt you have more over all gaming experience than i do. I freely admit to being a no life loser who plays video games all day. And vary little of it is WoW. (none in fact right now) I'm not excluding people from playing the game with me. I just want the right expectations to be set. Don't join someone else's group if you are not ready to meet their expectations. Also, I'm 34, not a kid anymore. I don't want people to play like pro's, i don't want people to be amazing. I want people to be honest when the join a group and understand the social contract of RESPECTING EACHOTHER. You are not respecting my time by blinding joining my group, saying nothing and then fucking up repeatedly. Ask some god damn questions, improve. Grow.. Get Better...

If it's to much to ask for new players to take the time and hit a target dummy and read some tooltips to try and understand what they are doing. I'll gladly hold the title of asshole. Because, you know what. If you are unwilling to learn the basics, join a group, and fuck it up for them. You are far worse than an asshole. (and because you fail to understand the idea. "you" is used as the general player") You are a self entitled leech who wants everyone else to do everything for you because you just want to have fun.

If this was a matter just a random que, then the most basic you can do is read the tooltips of what you can do. If you are joining someone else's group, the least you can do is be familiar with how to play your damn class and ready to learn mechanics. And if you are looking to join a group that is clearly looking to get the kill, not teach someone the mechanics, then the least you can do is know how to fucking play your class and know the basics of the mechanics. Either way, I don't care if it's gatekeeping... Respect other peoples time. Not everyone is there ready to teach any random person how to play unexpectedly....

Which again, is why setting expectations is important. If you are new, say so, if you know the fight, say so. Be upfront and join the group that meets your expectations, or... Make your own.

[PaladinBash]

Replace Danuser. Anyone is better. ANYONE. Even the most blatant self-insert fanwank bullshit can't be as bad as him since when he does it, he made his flawless perfect waifu retroactively undo all of the fucking lore in the setting forever. There's no way to get past it ever. It has cast a shadow over everything and I refuse to believe there could have been a way to make it worse. That it was an insufferable waifu who dindu nuffin on a scale beyond even Orcish handwaving, which was at least a consistent feature of the setting, just adds to it. It was all for nothing. I'm glad that at least the entire setting suffered for it rather than just the Alliance.

The game's never been balanced and it's never been fair. It's just sometimes fucked other people more than you and you just kinda deal with it because you have fun with your friends. I've never expected them to do that and you're an absolute fool if you did or a liar if you say you did because it's a case of a rock player saying that paper needs a nerf but scissors is working as intended. Nobody buys it, nobody cares. "I wish things were balanced like X" is always "I wish my spec was as strong as it was in X".

I've always cashed out on them ever fixing Ret. The guys who hated it are gone and the ones there are too shit to stop it being strong and shitting on everyone in PVP which doesn't change it from being a shit and terribly designed spec, it's just tolerable because you can dunk scrubs with it with no effort at all and seeing them cry is hilarious. I didn't expect it to last a season, never mind two, but let that sink in- Ret got to absolutely curbstomp people for 2 entire seasons untouched. That has never happened before and it will never happen again. The spec won't get changed into being fun but shit damage, it'll just be shit damage. Look at the set bonus next patch for Ret, it's made by a monkey and nobody cares. Every other spec has been reworked but Ret. Every single one. It's literally broken and does not work. "LOL YOU JUST NEED TO BE SKILLED AND HAVE NO LAG AND USE AN ADDON TO USE THE 2PC CASUALLLLLLLLLL" they say on a faceroll braindead spec and yet other specs don't have to do it to get a tiny boost out of a 2pc bonus that, unintentionally, still clips your actual Seraphim if you use it while it procs. I know that's a bug but it's funny. The 4pc conversely is either massively broken if it procs a lot, OFF A PROC MIND YOU, or absolutely useless. An RNG on an RNG that is extremely swingy is terrible design and unfun because the differences in it are staggering.

None of this will be fixed. None of it. Not small short-term things like Ret's set bonus. Not class direction or lack thereof. Not grindy shitty systems on top of each other that only get playable, sometimes even fun, by the end of an expansion's iteration only to be scrapped by the next shitshow that guts it and half-heartedly replaces it with something awful that people repeatedly say they don't want and won't work and how to improve it. It's okay though, 6 months in they will implement some of those and a year later will bolt on ANOTHER system that either massively boosts it rather than fixes it or lets you skip 90% of it instantly. That's to avoid even mentioning the story which will undoubtedly be shit, go nowhere, ruin characters and have a few cool ideas overlooked completely for dumb shit. The Alliance will somehow get fucked harder than anyone for some reason and, if Danuser is there, it will also ruin EVERYTHING before. On purpose, out of spite, because he fucking hates people better than him at writing. I mean not even good writers, the old writers were kinda bland, but they made a fun nice setting and just do fuck all with it. Talentless hacks like Danuser worst of all.

I will never understand how they managed to hire someone with ANUS in his fucking name and expected good work from him.

[Caprias]

A new system design team.

I don't care about the story, it was always cheesy and I could always enjoy it as that, the combat and PvE content is still strong.

But just let me raid/m+ without arduous longterm grinds, I want to fry my fucking head and wrists in a 20+key or mythic boss without this additional upkeep BS, it burns me out and there is already quite some time involvement due to how mythic works.

- - - Updated - - -

More systems
More borrowed power

You might think this is some biting sarcasm or bait but as long as they are interesting systems and borrowed power? no problem.

[minitiative]

So, it's okay to hold up the line because you are "next" but haven't picked what you wanted yet? It's okay to waste everyone else's time because, fuck everyone else, it's all about you. That's what you are saying. It's not your responsibility to be ready and able. Fuck everyone else who put forth the vary little effort it took. It's ALL about what YOU want. YOUR fun is all that matters. That's the take away here. Fuck me, for wanting to make progress. I should just accept you suck and deal with you wasting my time all night, because you are having fun... Oh, right, You expect ME to go out of MY way to make a group and then you get to sit there and tell me how much of an asshole I am because I won't let you in my group. I'm GATEKEEPING!!!

My enjoyment is tied to making reasonable progress. I'm fine failing, and I'm fine letting people who are still learning in my group. I'm not fine letting in people who can't even meet a dps check and fail on the exact same mechanic 15 times in a row with 0 progress. But, again, who the fuck cares about my enjoyment. You are having fun right? It's all about you. Not the 9-39 people you are wasting the time of. They don't matter.. You are having fun.

You are a selfish child who thinks nothing of everyone around you and it shows. "it's just a game" I'm sure you plan on throwing in my face.. Guess what, you are right. It is just a game that takes up REAL TIME. Time is Finite.. I remember saying that already.. I'll repeat it again. Time is Finite. Not everyone has 8 hours a day to piss away on a game. They want to sit down and relax, maybe clear some content and have a close match of pvp. But, their fun doesn't matter.. Only yours. No wonder the games community is shit. It's fill with selfish people like you who only care about what you want.

You must be a blast at parties... Oh wait, everyone else at the party doesn't matter right. Did you have a good time?

Take a deep breath son and reread what you posted, especially your first paragraph. Just look at, read it out loud to yourself. I'm being serious when I say that. Look at how angry you let yourself become over the responsibility you've assigned other players. Look at how vitriolic it made you. Look at how you extrapolated that into assuming what someone may be like in a party - a real life event that can vary from a child's birthday, to a wedding, to a college frathouse, to a bar, to a quiet apartment, from all walks of life to the many nuances a social setting entails. You drew all that, just from someone stating that no one else has a responsibility to you in a game. Think of how far it's flung you in a certain direction to think about people telling you're an asshole because you won't let them in your group, about how you assign value to their thoughts as if it should matter to you what someone you consider a scrub thinks. Do you not see what the person you responded to is trying to allude to?

You think these people are harming your time. That their lack of commitment to the game is a direct attack on you. Even if it was, so what? So the fuck what man? Cut them out of your life and move on. Ignore it and move on. Even in a real life setting, no one is inherently responsible to commit in some way to your enjoyment. If they are enjoying themselves, if they don't give a flying fuck what other people think, then let them accept the consequences of their actions just like normal. It happens all the time, so what's so different about WoW where you feel the need to attack someone over a statement of responsibility in a game of all things?

[GUZ]

Player and Guild Housing.

[SinR]

For one, Danuser's head on a plate