Now i look at bit different at Steve Danuser

[Magnagarde]

First of all, who quote me first was you, so the only one who could possible be doing something like this is yourself.

The whole point of this thread is to "expose" some shit that was happening in blizzard.

either way, even if the "gossip" isn't real, and he is not taking revenge of someone else, not all of "this" is his doing, he was taken off from wow team after BfA lauch, Shadowlands story and sylvanas redemption is Danuser work.

Exactly this. We knew he was going to try to either save her or make a redemption arc for her with almost complete certainly after Nathanos' short story dropped. His infatuation with the character was made clear in "Dark Mirror" and there was no way he would write an ending for the events that started in BfA in a way that would see her defeated and punished; she was allowed to just... fly away. Villainous Sylvanas is something I appreciated in terms of her ability to drive a controversial plot, but also something that had to have its end by now.

[Ragedaug]

First of all, who quote me first was you, so the only one who could possible be doing something like this is yourself

I literally only said this in that first quote: "...which was still after the story of SLs was already decided on."

Everything else you attributed to me and "argued" with me about was all made up in your head.

[Revamp Man]

Exactly this. We knew he was going to try to either save her or make a redemption arc for her with almost complete certainly after Nathanos' short story dropped. His infatuation with the character was made clear in "Dark Mirror" and there was no way he would write an ending for the events that started in BfA in a way that would see her defeated and punished; she was allowed to just... fly away. Villainous Sylvanas is something I appreciated in terms of her ability to drive a controversial plot, but also something that had to have its end by now.

I wish they would end her like Crowley in Supernatural
Just kill her but in a way that screws one side over

[Aleksej89]

danuser is hideously inept and unprofessional.

whatever milking these media leeches are doing these days shows more creativity than danuser demonstrated in his entire wow career.

wow never had great stories but Bfa and Sl are a different breed of awful story writing.

[qwerty123456]

Is there a TLDW?

[Revamp Man]

Is there a TLDW?

Poor Dan his waifu got sabotaged so the reason for the crap writing is his way of saving her.

[PaladinBash]

He has ANUS in his fucking name man. That should tell you all you need to know. He's a shit writer and no amount of character assassination can excuse how shitty this plot is, how many wasted opportunities even within the very limited worldbuilding there was and even if he went with this absolutely retarded direction, he could've at least done something, ANYTHING, with the Jailer. Better he had done truly nothing, the only thing the Jailer's done is undo the previous works by tying it to him, which is hilariously awful. What a farce. No amount of other people being shit stops Danuser being shit. It doesn't explain it, he has an unhealthy obsession with Sylvanas and tries to undo reality even more than the Jailer to make it so she dindu nuffin.

Just accept he sucks. It's really just that easy. He is a shitty writer and has terrible ideas.

[Syegfryed]

I literally only said this in that first quote: "...which was still after the story of SLs was already decided on."

Everything else you attributed to me and "argued" with me about was all made up in your head.

The story of SL was not decided on back when Afrasiabi was working, what the hell are you talking about.

You guys have a completely wrong idea when they say they work in some expansions in advance, thinking everything is figured out, when what they have is a general idea of the expansion direction and a lot of shit happens to change that, like they changing the WoD final, not making Grom the final villain, despite they saying he was going to be, bwosandi, zappy boy and the dreadlord leader being more important because the public like then.

While they had the shadowlands expansion idealized, with a villain and sylvanas following him, as a villain too, the work to to flesh out the expansion was on Danuser, He was the one who fleshed out, poorly, the Janitor, and the one who decided to redeem her,.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly this. We knew he was going to try to either save her or make a redemption arc for her with almost complete certainly after Nathanos' short story dropped. His infatuation with the character was made clear in "Dark Mirror" and there was no way he would write an ending for the events that started in BfA in a way that would see her defeated and punished; she was allowed to just... fly away. Villainous Sylvanas is something I appreciated in terms of her ability to drive a controversial plot, but also something that had to have its end by now.

No joke, we all talked about how she was not going to die and would get a shit redemption, or like getting Kerrigan-ed

It was not even "guess" or prophecy", you just had too look at his work and how he put things. But he sure as hell can surprise us of how bad he can do that, the soul split give me cringe and laugh at the same time.

[Ragedaug]

The story of SL was not decided on back when Afrasiabi was working, what the hell are you talking about.

You guys have a completely wrong idea when they say they work in some expansions in advance, thinking everything is figured out, when what they have is a general idea of the expansion direction and a lot of shit happens to change that, like they changing the WoD final, not making Grom the final villain, despite they saying he was going to be, bwosandi, zappy boy and the dreadlord leader being more important because the public like then.

While they had the shadowlands expansion idealized, with a villain and sylvanas following him, as a villain too, the work to to flesh out the expansion was on Danuser, He was the one who fleshed out, poorly, the Janitor, and the one who decided to redeem her

Absolutely no way. The very first thing they figure out is the story. They can't make literally any of the assets until they know what the story is. No zones, no quests, no art, no characters, no cinematics, no voice work, etc, etc, etc. There's no way they are still figuring out the story while they Xpac beta is out. Complete BS. Story is the first thing. Everything else is next. SL was no doubt established under Afrasiabi's watch.

[kaminaris]

Absolutely no way. The very first thing they figure out is the story. They can't make literally any of the assets until they know what the story is. No zones, no quests, no art, no characters, no cinematics, no voice work, etc, etc, etc. There's no way they are still figuring out the story while they Xpac beta is out. Complete BS. Story is the first thing. Everything else is next. SL was no doubt established under Afrasiabi's watch.

What are you on about? Can't make assets without story? Dude, please. All they needed was rough sketch what and how its gonna look like.

They could have change thousand times the direction in that timespan.

[reanimatez]

I'm not buying it, still isn't an excuse for why the rest of bfa AND sl were absolute garbage. If anything it shows his complete incompetence to adapt.

[Stormspark]

I know you're pouring it on for the joke, but now I just have a mental image of him with a Sylvanas body pillow and it got a little laugh out of me.

Oh I'm sure he has one. And he probably has more NSFW stuff than that too.

But anyway...Afrasiabi trying to make Sylvanas irredeemable does not excuse Danuser's garbage tier "writing" (and in fact was probably just an overreaction to Danuser's TERRIBLE ideas). Zovaal is the single worst written villian I have ever seen in any media. He has no motivations, no backstory, NOTHING. It's literally "tall bald man with nipples wants to destroy everything because he's evil".

[Kithelle]

Did you watch the vid? Steve was not part of the writing team till after the BFA nnounacement. Up to that point he was quest writer.

No he wasn't, but if his big idea was Sylvanas just wasn't quite herself and we'll completely forgive her...he isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence in his work

[Syegfryed]

Absolutely no way. The very first thing they figure out is the story. They can't make literally any of the assets until they know what the story is. No zones, no quests, no art, no characters, no cinematics, no voice work, etc, etc, etc. There's no way they are still figuring out the story while they Xpac beta is out. Complete BS. Story is the first thing. Everything else is next. SL was no doubt established under Afrasiabi's watch.

I literally told you they said Grom hellscream was going to be the final boss of warlords of draenor and they changed completely 9.2 to be a burning legion patch with Archimonde as final villain

If you think everything is set in stone because they starting doing a sketch or an overall plot in advance you are being naive. That was a literal prove to show how things can change in the middle of the expansion, they do not have an expansion ready when one is going on,, otherwise they didn't expand months doing a patch.

The overall plot of shadowlands with the Janitor could very well be established under afrasiabi, but how the expansion unfolded, and sylvanas redemption is all Danuser job.

[zysis]

ok, so.. then why did we not get shadowlands BEFORE BFA? hm? please do explain that.

Because Shadowlands was unfinished and just being worked on, it was more of a direct copy from Dungeons and Dragons than it already is. There needed to be a new Titan, a new "big bad" and the Celestial copies needed to be replaced (Titans) with something far bigger. BFA was shoved in line because it allowed to connect the big bad to the existing lore (sort of) and with a little sleight of hand, no one would notice the game is a patchwerk of borrowed narratives.

- - - Updated - - -

The overall plot of shadowlands with the Janitor could very well be established under afrasiabi, but how the expansion unfolded, and sylvanas redemption is all Danuser job.

LOL Afrasiabi was "lead"? Since when? How does Ion fit into all this? Why does Danuser get credit? None of what you say makes any sense. Oh... blame the guy that was thrown under a bus. Good deal, but how does Alex have ANYthing to do with story? How has everyone forgot that the lead game designer has the final say? That's the job. It's not just a title. Everything. EVERYTHING is rubber stamped by Lead. This is a sad attempt to throw Alex under another bus and blame all the crap on him. Meanwhile it's been a steaming pile of crap ever since Blizzard pulled the pin on Cata, BfA and WoD. Blizzard haven't released a fully planned expansion since the Burning Crusade. That was the only expansion that was expanded, rather than shortened.

This stuff is hilarious. Where are they sourcing PR from? Twitter? Watching the giant beast that is Blizzard writhe in pain as it dies is something to behold.

[Syegfryed]

LOL Afrasiabi was "lead"? Since when? How does Ion fit into all this? Why does Danuser get credit? None of what you say makes any sense. Oh... blame the guy that was thrown under a bus. Good deal, but how does Alex have ANYthing to do with story? How has everyone forgot that the lead game designer has the final say?

There is different jobs inside wow that take "lead", could be a lead designer, lead narrative, yada yada. Ion job isn't writing the expansion lore, He may aprove, but that is something i don't know much to talk about.

We don't know exactly timeline, but at that time afrasiabi was lead writer and was the one who set in motions BfA story, but he was "kicked" out, when it launch. So, everything past that, was Danuser and his team writing.

Point is, we know for a fact some expansions are being "worked" in advanced, an overall plot, idea/sketch, and they can work on that, so, its obvious some seeds of shadowlands were already planted with Afrasiabi, but he was kicked and fired before working on it, So yeah, the blame of shadowlands sucking hairy balls is not rly his fault but Danuser.

[cparle87]

Main problem is that they put the main lore problems. First of all vanilla. Bringing forsaken into the horde. Night elves into the alliance and thrall and Jaina starting a worldwar between the two.
Then bc :
- ruining war3 characters to bring players. They even managed to bring back Archimonde...
And also adding
- space russian octopus and their interdimensional spaceships. Completely fucking definitively any balance of power.
- weird cosmology with the the naaru
- time travel
- and the greatest piece of lore ever : The sunwell waifu in love with a dragon.

We still endure those bullshit to this day. The narrative was inexistant but the damages were amazing.
Wod infinite universe's legion come from there.
Legion tried to redeem Illidan how they could.
The unused draeney spaceship that could destroy any horde city from space.
The legion having spaceships but needing portals, except somehow space Sargeras
The whole bfa horde campain tauren versus forsaken...
Thrall and Jaina wanting peace but being the reason of the start of the worldwar and blaming every time something else.

Even shadowland. The idea of a realm of death makes sense since war3, as the scourge used "invocations" to build. But then we have the stupid cosmology put inside with titans like créatures

Did you ever watch any kind of sci-fi? Even if spaceships can travel multiples of the speed of light it still takes months or years to travel galactic distances. Sargeras had to cross the universe from wherever he was during WotA to wherever Azeroth is. Whereas in series which also have portals they're typically instant but limited in scope. Sargeras tried to get to Azeroth via the only portal that could handle him: the Well of Eternity. That failed. So he had to hike at whatever lightspeed he can do in realspace across the entire universe, taking 10,000 years to get here. All the while sending his minions who COULD use portals to conquer the place ahead of him. If they failed, he'd get there on his own eventually and do it himself.

[UndedoKoleda]

Absolutely no way. The very first thing they figure out is the story. They can't make literally any of the assets until they know what the story is. No zones, no quests, no art, no characters, no cinematics, no voice work, etc, etc, etc. There's no way they are still figuring out the story while they Xpac beta is out. Complete BS. Story is the first thing. Everything else is next. SL was no doubt established under Afrasiabi's watch.

I bet the chad bearded Jailer was Afrasiabi's doing, then Danuser turned him into the Janitor.

Anyway, can't wait for 14.0, which should have almost no Afrasiabi's influence in its story.

[Stormspark]

Anyone who thinks it will be something different or better does not understand Afrasiabi is just a scapegoat for the developers failing at bringing good story or good gameplay. Do not believe in the lies of the developers. They already tried that in Legion, BFA and Shadowlands. Fool me once..

Why do players develop a 7th or 8th hope it will be better in the next expac? Why do that many people return over and over just to be disappointed again and again and again?

We players have way too much patience with blizzard. And we are way too good people to believe they will make a new expac fun. We should be way more critical about blizzard.

Why would anyone support the incompetence of Hazzikostas and Danuser with buying the next expac? We already know from the past how it ends. We already know they cannot design a fun game. We already know they will retcon their story over and over from last expacs. We already know they cannot create other fun systems than raiding and mythic dungeons.

So why.. why do people buy new expacs? Where does that unlimited hope for a better game come from considering how much the developers failed in the past over and over?

They will continue to produce shit as long people buy their shit. And will make Afrasiabi or the age of the game responsible for players leaving after the first month. They cannot get the fact it is their incompetence because players are leaving. Show them they are incompetent. Do not buy their garbage.

Yep, don't get me wrong...Afrasiabi is apparently a terrible person who harasses women. But he (generally) did a good job as the game's creative director. It looks like his "feud" with Danuser started at the beginning of BFA (and Danuser is a terrible excuse for a "writer" with some of the most awful ideas I've ever seen)...and was probably just Afrasiabi trying to make it impossible or at least much more difficult for Danuser to implement his terrible Sylvanas shipping ideas. I mean, the dude changed Nathanos into his self insert (and it's recognized in the story that he was changed) and pretty much blatantly shipped himself with her. That's pretty creepy, maybe not QUITE as creepy as Afrasiabi harrassing women in real life, but still creepy.

I have a feeling Blizzard is going to use Afrasiabi as a scapegoat for everything wrong with the game from this point though. Because he's gone. And while yes, he's a terrible person, he generally did a great job with the game. It's possible to like the work, while disliking the creator.

[FelPlague]

No he wasn't, but if his big idea was Sylvanas just wasn't quite herself and we'll completely forgive her...he isn't exactly giving me a lot of confidence in his work

except that is literally not what they are trying to do but ok.