I could see an Evoker class

[rhorle]

They literally said they were brought up.

At Blizzcon. Developers make mistakes in their wording all the time but we have in-game references that call them different dimensions rather then physical locations on Azeroth that were just brought up or down from their location. You are using old out-dated comments that are not backed up by newer information.

[cone of cold]

At Blizzcon. Developers make mistakes in their wording all the time

You don't get to say they're wrong in the very presentation of the expansion. Who are you?

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You are using old out-dated comments that are not backed up by newer information.

lol old and outdated

It was a couple of expansions ago.

[Shaqthefat]

Ok, take it up with Metzen. That's official lore.

Deathwing didn't live in deepholm before his corruption. He only went there to visit and to recover after he was beaten in combat by the other aspects during the second war.

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You don't get to say they're wrong in the very presentation of the expansion. Who are you?

Like when for cataclysm presentation they said Falstad was dead? Or when they said Grommash would be the final boss of WoD during the WoD presentation?

The in game lore from the Elemental shaman artifact weapon and from the first warcraft chronicle say that the elemental plane was created by Helya and Ra-den

[rhorle]

You don't get to say they're wrong in the very presentation of the expansion. Who are you?

They were called out for being wrong during a QA. Have you never heard of the red shirt guy? Cataclysm released 12 years ago and the information from Blizzcon is slightly order then that. We will soon have the 6th expansion since Cataclysm. I provided you with a quest released during Cataclysm and lore from a Legion Artifact. What is actually in the game trumps what a developer says at a Blizzcon. That means you are going off of old and outdated information.

According to you we got flying combat in Wintergrasp because it was printed on the box. Even though it was cut from the game after the boxes for WotLK were released. Or even the Abyssal Maw raid that was talked about at Blizzcon but ultimately cut from the game.

The new lore, including Chronicles, state that the Elemental Plane is a separate dimension from Azeroth and not physical locations that were buried, in the atmosphere, in the ocean, or where ever Firelands was hiding on Mt. Hyjal.

[cone of cold]

They were called out for being wrong during a QA.

Dude. That was when they put the wrong character in the beta. Nobody says they're infallible. He confused two dwarf characters nobody cares about anyway.

But when they introduce the expansion to you, new information to you as the player, you don't get to dismiss that, just because it doesn't fit your argument.

Totally different situations, so stop being dishonest.

[rhorle]

But when they introduce the expansion to you, new information to you as the player, you don't get to dismiss that, just because it doesn't fit your argument.

I provided in-game examples of how those past statements are incorrect. I am not dismissing it just because it doesn't fit my argument.

[cone of cold]

Deathwing didn't live in deepholm before his corruption. He only went there to visit and to recover after he was beaten in combat by the other aspects during the second war.

Read the transcript. Listen to the video. Metzen said, he was sleeping for the last years in Deepholm and the Old God's rise, with C'thun and Yogg-Saron, empowered him. So the Old God's influence reached him in Deepholm.

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I provided in-game examples of how those past statements are incorrect. I am not dismissing it just because it doesn't fit my argument.

They are not. You can see the elemental planes on Azeroth. In game. Right now.

[Leaker69]

Dude. That was when they put the wrong character in the beta. Nobody says they're infallible. He confused two dwarf characters nobody cares about anyway.

But when they introduce the expansion to you, new information to you as the player, you don't get to dismiss that, just because it doesn't fit your argument.

Totally different situations, so stop being dishonest.

I thought we already confirmed that spent time underground does not equal Deepholm and are now trying to prove Deepholm is a different realm accessed through Maelstrom and not actually a zone at the bottom of it.

[rhorle]

They are not. You can see the elemental planes on Azeroth. In game. Right now.

Portals to the Elemental Plane. We can see those portals and a few spots that escaped the prison because Deathwing weakened the barriers of the prison that holds them. Each element was not locked in a seperate prison which your theory would indicate if they were physical places on Azeroth. They could battle and attack each other in the Elemental Plane because it was all one dimension that was created by Ra and Helya.

[cone of cold]

I thought we already confirmed that spent time underground does not equal Deepholm and are now trying to prove Deepholm is a different realm accessed through Maelstrom and not actually a zone at the bottom of it.

Are you ignoring things on purpose?

Metzen said he slept the last few years in Deepholm as the Old Gods empowered him to increase his power tenfold before he erupted out of Deepholm.

Ok so Metzen doesn't outright say that the he got corrupted while in Deepholm.

https://youtu.be/6tojYbaPEyQ?t=288

But he says that the whispers of the Old Gods in recent years have gotten worse and worse and that he spent his time recently in his "bachelor pad" in Deepholm.

What has happened in recent years is that the whispers of the Old Gods have gotten worse. The power of the Old Gods as seen rising with C'thun and Yogg-Saron, (there are more) their power has magnified Deathwing's power, you know, tenfold. He's a very, very powerful dude these days. And what has happened to spark the Cataclysm is that Deathwing, with his bachelor pad, in the plane of earth, that we called Deepholm, Deathwing has awoken from his slumber and literally erupted into the world.

So if the Old God's whispers in recent years have gotten worse, and the rise of C'thun and Yogg-Saron have empowered him so much, that his power increased tenfold, which are events that occurred in Classic and WotLK, and he has spent his time recently in Deepholm, having slumbered there, then that means that the Old Gods' influence reaches him in Deepholm. And that's before he brings the elemental planes up.

When Deathwing breaches the world, as Chris is saying, he actually does something so, so massive, that he actually brings up all of the elemental planes, or down, in the case of Skywall.

The reason he slumbered in Deepholm in the first place was because of his defeat in Day of the Dragon, which was way before WoW Classic. It's the empowerment of the Old Gods, that has him erupt out of Deepholm.

Portals to the Elemental Plane. We can see those portals and a few spots that escaped the prison because Deathwing weakened the barriers of the prison that holds them. Each element was not locked in a seperate prison which your theory would indicate if they were physical places on Azeroth. They could battle and attack each other in the Elemental Plane because it was all one dimension that was created by Ra and Helya.

They are in game portals into instanced areas.

They are game mechanics.

The actual characters just dive down into Vashj'ir and swim down deep enough until they enter the elemental plane of water. The same goes for the other planes.

[FossilFree]

What if the Evoker is a titan-themed caster instead? Dragons have lore overlaps with the titans, it would actually make sense to harness titanic power as a class in a dragon expansion.

The leaker said arcane mages would get gutted like demonology and redesigned. Maybe all of the arcane lightning crackling effects, the arcane power, rune of power, and evocation abilities and themes would be what the class is built on? It could even have a bit of a runecaster angle by building on rune of power and the titan use of runes.

Arcane mages could keep the chronomancy stuff and even morph into a healer spec for mages. Maybe even gaining some new sand-themed bronze dragon abilities in the process.

[rhorle]

The actual characters just dive down into Vashj'ir and swim down deep enough until they enter the elemental plane of water. The same goes for the other planes.

The Abyssal Breach is a portal in the lore and not just a game mechanic. The Elemental Plane is a different dimension created by Ra and Helya and not physical locations on Azeroth that have always been open. They were not a physical prison like with the Old Gods. You again ignore how the elements could fight with each other and were not locked in separate places around Azeroth.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aby...sal_Breach.jpg

Chronicles Volume 1 calls its a dimension. This means they are not physical places on Azeroth but a different pocket dimension. Chronicles trumps any comments by Blizzard devs in the past. Read the first result.

https://www.google.com/books/edition...tal%20plane%22

[cone of cold]

The Abyssal Breach is a portal in the lore and not just a game mechanic. The Elemental Plane is a different dimension created by Ra and Helya and not physical locations on Azeroth

Originally maybe, but they said that Deathwing brought them up when he erupted from Deepholm, I posted it several times.

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Chronicles trumps any comments by Blizzard devs in the past.

No, it doesn't. Because they have been "their own dimensions" before Cataclysm as well. But Deathwing brought them up in the events of the Cataclysm. Neither Chronicles nor anything else Blizzard has said since then contradicts that.

[rhorle]

Originally maybe, but they said that Deathwing brought them up when he erupted from Deepholm, I posted it several times.

Again you don't seem to understand what old and outdated means. Your information, based on comments at Blizzcon, is no longer what is correct about the Lore of the game if it was ever correct. The Abyssal Breach being a portal is also after the Blizzcon you reference so you are not even using originally correctly.

If they were their own dimensions they could not have been physical locations on Azeroth that were moved up or down to be accessible so you contradict your own claim.

[Shaqthefat]

Read the transcript. Listen to the video. Metzen said, he was sleeping for the last years in Deepholm and the Old God's rise, with C'thun and Yogg-Saron, empowered him. So the Old God's influence reached him in Deepholm.

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They are not. You can see the elemental planes on Azeroth. In game. Right now.

Lore has already been changed from that statement, since we now know that N'zoth was the one responsible for deathwing's corruption and power. Besides, the elemental planes are tied to azeroth, much like the emerald dream. They aren't actually in azeroth, they're just bound to it. Them being bound to azeroth is why the old gods are able to corrupt these places.

[cone of cold]

Lore has already been changed from that statement, since we now know that N'zoth was the one responsible for deathwing's corruption and power.

We know that from Cataclysm. Nothing has been changed. This was revealed in the Cataclysm expansion, in which N'zoth was first introduced.

Metzen even hints at N'zoth in the speech I transcribed.

What has happened in recent years is that the whispers of the Old Gods have gotten worse. The power of the Old Gods as seen rising with C'thun and Yogg-Saron, (there are more) their power has magnified Deathwing's power, you know, tenfold. He's a very, very powerful dude these days. And what has happened to spark the Cataclysm is that Deathwing, with his bachelor pad, in the plane of earth, that we called Deepholm, Deathwing has awoken from his slumber and literally erupted into the world.

You guys need to learn to read. It's pathetic.

[rhorle]

You guys need to learn to read. It's pathetic.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Imp...raken_Tentacle

These gigantic squid are servants of Neptulon the Tidehunter and normally dwell in the Abyssal Maw and not on Azeroth. The fact that this imprint is fossilized in ancient stone suggests that the mighty creatures have been visiting this world for millennia.

Don't turn to insults because you are continually proven wrong.

[Shaqthefat]

We know that from Cataclysm. Nothing has been changed. This was revealed in the Cataclysm expansion, in which N'zoth was first introduced.

Metzen even hints at N'zoth in the speech I transcribed.



You guys need to learn to read. It's pathetic.

The lore has been shifted to make C'Thun and Yogg-Saron minor players in Deathwings power. Not even sure what you're trying to prove. Even if Y'shaarj was all of the sudden the only old god that corrupted deathwing despite being dead, it doesn't change the fact that the elemental planes are separate, but bound to azeroth.

[cone of cold]

These gigantic squid are servants of Neptulon the Tidehunter and normally dwell in the Abyssal Maw and not on Azeroth. The fact that this imprint is fossilized in ancient stone suggests that the mighty creatures have been visiting this world for millennia.

Yeah so? What are you trying to tell me here? We've said several times that they're different dimensions, but like Metzen said, Deathwing brought them up, and you can see them on Azeroth. You can see Skywall in Uldum, Firelands in Hyjal, the Abyssal Maw in Vashj'ir and Deepholm under the Maelstrom. Whatever it means that they have been brought "up", that's something you can discuss with Metzen.

Either way, it's clearly established in lore, confirmed by devs, that the Old Gods' influence was able to reach Deathwing in Deepholm. You can sulk and pout, but it won't change.

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The lore has been shifted to make C'Thun and Yogg-Saron minor players in Deathwings power. Not even sure what you're trying to prove. Even if Y'shaarj was all of the sudden the only old god that corrupted deathwing, it doesn't change the fact that the elemental planes are separate, but bound to azeroth.

Minor players still doesn't change that they outright said that when Deathwing was sleeping in Deepholm, the Old Gods rise with C'thun and Yogg-Saron empowered Deathwing and increased his power tenfold. Nothing shifted.

Sorry, you lose.

And I tire of repeating myself so I'm out.

[Triceron]

But why didn't all stone dragons evolve into normal dragons?

Will probably explained as old god shenanigans like Curse of flesh.