I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of the old talents coming back.

[LuxTheGamer]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

[Amnaught]

One good thing about it is that there are some nodes that are "pick an ability".

I really hope they just stop pruning things and give us a PVP Talent styled list of talents.

The problem with a tree like this, for me, is that it's not immediately clear how many things you can reach. Like if you spend too many points in the bottom of the tree, you wknt be able to get the stuff at the top. That's not more choice, it's just more confusing choice that is still going to be min-maxed.

I'd rather have it work sort of like how glyphs worked; youve got like 4 big combat talents, 4 utility, and like 50 points for the smaller crap that people love to min-max..... but of those big ones, there are dozens of options to mix and match as you see fit.

[Toby451]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

There will be guides that have talent trees for you to copy if you dont want to figure it out yourself.

[DeltrusDisc]

Look up a guide for what is best and move on.
There's more important things in life to be stressed by, trust me.

[Wingspan]

They seem confusing, and I feel like I'll be stressed out by them, I've played Classic and have quit as the talents seem too extreme and such.
I prefer the WOD era talents as I started in Late MOP and boosted a fury warrior in warlords of Draenor, and I might miss the pick a talent, and boom, you read the thing and you pick a talent. That seems easy, but with this other system, I don't understand I'm not sure.

For the most part, you will be able to go to a website and see what to pick… and there should be some sort of reset built in if you choose something accidentally or poorly.

In the end, the talent system will probably be gone after an expansion or two for some of the same reasons that it went away the first time… Blizzard is nearly incapable of balancing them and, if given the choice, too many people will pick too many of the worst ones.

[Tziva]

I think overwhelmingly it will be a popular decision, since a lot of people miss the old talent system. Many players have been asking for them to come back for a long time.

I am not one of them. I like the current talent system -- allthough I wish it had more tiers -- as something I regularly change and interact with situationally, verses the old set-and-forget cookiecutter builds with pre-reqs that limit flexibility to adapt to context. But more than anything is that I'm VERY wary of some of the previews we've seen that seem to show some abilities that are currently baseline being turned into talents.

There will be a lot of positives, like the ability to keep abilities that have been tied to expansion systems, and the fact that this is in place of yet another stupid borrowed power system, but overall, I'm much more cynical about the incoming talent changes than I am excited.

[Bullfred]

then quit lmao

[LuxTheGamer]

then quit lmao

Been playing since WOD man I love this game, so I might just force myself to get adjusted.

[deviantcultist]

Really depends on the class. As a Shadowpriest, I despise any design philosophy that brings me closer to the base Priest class. In other words, Legion was ideal and the new talent system is something I'm very much worried about.

[wushootaki]

Really depends on the class. As a Shadowpriest, I despise any design philosophy that brings me closer to the base Priest class. In other words, Legion was ideal and the new talent system is something I'm very much worried about.

I hear that, but I feel like this is best for classes that benefited from hybridity (druid, shaman, paladin).

A lot of really fun builds disappeared when they decided to get rid of the old talent system. My personal pvp fave was Enhance + deep resto that got 0 mana cost totems and 215% bonus self heals.

You could do some really fun off-meta stuff. I also dual-wield healed a realm first Malygos in WotLK with one of those specs.

[Selah]

I understand, talent trees can be a turnoff for people. I personally love them but it's definitely not for everyone. The good news is, invariably some nerd is going to sit down and work out what BiS is and put a guide up. That's what most trees end up being.

Keep in mind too, this isn't the old talent trees you see in classic but instead a new iteration with two trees working in tandem with each other. It should be a totally different experience.

If you want to see a more extreme version of talent trees, check out this link.

https://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree#4/3/V

[pahbi]

The talents is going to be a balance nightmare.

[Vakna]

The old talents are not coming back. The one and only thing that makes this look like old talents is that it's a tree shape. There are no 1% dmg to arcane missiles or some other similar shit like there was back in the day. Everything on these new trees is meaningful and impactful.

[MidnyteTV]

It's the one thing I really hated about the DF announcement. The MoP talent trees were best, the changes in legion made it too complicated. But overall, i lvoe this system and I will sorely miss it. This is what happens when you listen to a bunch of Gen Z streamers who hate WoW and only talk about classic.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I liked the MoP talent system too. I don't find "click to gain 1% crit chance" to be fun. The MoP system cut out the fat and boiled down the choices to the ones that actually mattered.

[Selah]

The old talents are not coming back. The one and only thing that makes this look like old talents is that it's a tree shape. There are no 1% dmg to arcane missiles or some other similar shit like there was back in the day. Everything on these new trees is meaningful and impactful.

While I hope this is true, and the team has made it their intention to be that way, I do have my concerns about the idea that all the choices are going to be meaningful. I have suspicion that will be true for some choices more than others.

[Diaphin]

I think overwhelmingly it will be a popular decision, since a lot of people miss the old talent system. Many players have been asking for them to come back for a long time.

I am not one of them. I like the current talent system -- allthough I wish it had more tiers -- as something I regularly change and interact with situationally, verses the old set-and-forget cookiecutter builds with pre-reqs that limit flexibility to adapt to context. But more than anything is that I'm VERY wary of some of the previews we've seen that seem to show some abilities that are currently baseline being turned into talents.

There will be a lot of positives, like the ability to keep abilities that have been tied to expansion systems, and the fact that this is in place of yet another stupid borrowed power system, but overall, I'm much more cynical about the incoming talent changes than I am excited.

I think one of the advantages of the new talent system is, that it looks like it can be expanded in different directions, both horicontally like we knew it but also vertically, which could prevent overbload like with the purely vertical talent trees from the past, especially in terms of abilities added, as they just can introduce more options for existing nods instead of new nods if they feel like a class could get overbloated.

And I think having a permanent player power system in the form of talents will end up being ultimately very healthy for the game, because its just easier to tweak certain talents and work each expansion on how to expand the talent trees instead of always coming up with a new power system. One of the issues with borrowed power was, that the devs often had to spend most of any expansion fixing the flaws of the current system and then abandoning it once it had become well build up and positively received. We saw that with Legion, in BFA and also in Shadowlands. Covenants are actually fun now that they are easy to catch up, can be switched on the fly, we have a good conduit catch up and are always wearing the covenant legendary.

[deviantcultist]

I hear that, but I feel like this is best for classes that benefited from hybridity (druid, shaman, paladin).

A lot of really fun builds disappeared when they decided to get rid of the old talent system. My personal pvp fave was Enhance + deep resto that got 0 mana cost totems and 215% bonus self heals.

You could do some really fun off-meta stuff. I also dual-wield healed a realm first Malygos in WotLK with one of those specs.

To be honest, even for the specs that wish for build variety, I doubt it will provide much more than an illusion of choice. One of the reasons why talent trees got pruned was not to make the game simpler but to actually cut down artificial choices and focus more on making choices meaningful. Even then, cookie-cutter mentality prevailed regardless.

In my opinion, the only upside to the old talent tree system was the feeling of constant development every time you leveled as opposed to the stale progression we have now.

[sambubu]

If it makes you feel better, there will be a guide telling you exactly what to do, as always.

[Firefall]

To be honest, even for the specs that wish for build variety, I doubt it will provide much more than an illusion of choice. One of the reasons why talent trees got pruned was not to make the game simpler but to actually cut down artificial choices and focus more on making choices meaningful. Even then, cookie-cutter mentality prevailed regardless.

In my opinion, the only upside to the old talent tree system was the feeling of constant development every time you leveled as opposed to the stale progression we have now.

A very accurate post. And let's face it the options of MoP+ trees are much more meaningful. In vanilla at best you have 3-5 "preference" points. It pales compared to actual big abilities and passives that define playstyles like now and I say that as someone who loves Vanilla and played classic on a raid schedule. The mentality prevails but for those willing to do ie 5% less theoretical damage at optimal play, your options are way more significant than cata and prior talents.

My hope is they understand all that and the new trees are in effect just a complex version of the existing system (looks like it's going that way, really) where the end result is existing talent choices + a bunch of azerite/artifact esq perks. So I'm not too worried because I think the end result will be the same, just leveling will be more fun.