ONLY 4 new dungeons for M+ initially

[Alroxas]

Honestly, why not?!

Ion just said so in the twitter space interview. Blizzard devs are not at the point where they could generate new dungeons that quickly. This mix of old and new is the current middle ground compared to the stale set of dungeons we have right now in SL.

A mega dungeon every major patch is doable

Really? When has WoW in the last 3 xpacs released a mega dungeon at every major patch? We've seen a 1 mega dungeon every xpac but not every major patch. Major patch defined as the X.1, X.2, X.3 patches.

Blizzard is the biggest and wealthiest it ever was.

And more beholden to shareholders... How about this, why don't you pull an Elon Musk and buy out Blizzard and make it a 100% private company then you can make all the changes and priority shifts...

[Trenbolone]

Ion just said so in the twitter space interview. Blizzard devs are not at the point where they could generate new dungeons that quickly. This mix of old and new is the current middle ground compared to the stale set of dungeons we have right now in SL.

Ion says very many things. Like when he said multiple times SL was always planned to have 1 less raid tier. So, I dont buy that.

Really? When has WoW in the last 3 xpacs released a mega dungeon at every major patch? We've seen a 1 mega dungeon every xpac but not every major patch. Major patch defined as the X.1, X.2, X.3 patches.

If they can do it in one patch, they can do it in another. Its sad how low of a standart many players keep accepting.

And more beholden to shareholders... How about this, why don't you pull an Elon Musk and buy out Blizzard and make it a 100% private company then you can make all the changes and priority shifts...

I wish.

And i like how you skipped the part about how slim this expansion looks. How many dungeons you think they could make if they did not invest time into creating island expeditions and warfronts in BfA? 5, 6?
They are most likely not making any of those in Dragonflight. There are 5 Zones. Raid, 8 dungeons.
Expectations so low in this thread. Sad.

[kaminaris]

Makes it even more baffling that you don't understand why your ideas are bad.

The only thing baffling is thinking ideas that aren't even new because thats how other games with scaling content are bad. Lmao.

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Some would argue that because non-current players, Also lack the insight regarding the minutiae details that of these systems.

GV (Great Vault) for instance is quite a change from bonus loot rolls and the older M+ only weekly cache. Additionally, in 9.2 GV + Creation Catalyst significantly changes gear acquisition, especially in regards to tier gear.

I said 6 months before SL was released that weekly bingo lottery is garbage and was garbage (I did play SL). You can't fix shit that is broken on fundamental level ie mobile lootbox magically spawning loot at the specific time each week which turns content into checklist. No matter how many "bad luck protection" systems they add to it it won't change a feeling that you dont do dungeons for drops but to get bingo tickets.

Similarly the DF M+ season change seems positive in that rotating the active M+ dungeons provide less dungeon fatigue than the current system we have in SL.

It won't tho. Fatigue will already begin at 50% due to half of dungeons being old. I would be already fatigued at the damned season start, not to mention due to low dungeon pool, fatigue will reach 100% super fast.

Don't get me wrong, if Blizzard could offer 6 brand new dungeons every season, we would all be happy but that's not even an option under consideration right now.

They absolutely can at least offer 4 dungeons per season. And slap 4 old ones until all are available in pool.

To boil it down, here are your choices:

A) 8 DF dungeons for M+ for the entire length of the xpac (plus the eventual mega-dungeon added/split into 2 M+)

B) 4 (of the 8) DF dungeons for M+ season 1 with the remaining 4 dungeons from older content, which then gets swapped out for the other half of the 8 DF dungeons with another set of 4 dungeons from older content.

Of these two choices, which would bring more variety to players? Cause less "dungeon fatigue"? Potentially change up BiS gearing from dungeons?

C) 8 dungeons from DF season 1 + 4 old ones, season2: 10 df dungeons + another 4 old ones, season3: 12 df dungeons + another 4 old ones

Very minimum should be 12. Like literally every other game with scaling content does it.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Here's the thing, though. Why should Blizzard cater to people like @Trenbolone or @TheWorkingTitle, who want it all up front so they can consume the content at once and never log back? It makes no sense; they are here only to gulp the milkshake down, so they are not prospective customers. Most of people like them will buy the expansion anyway, so box sales will be fine (as was already proven by SL box sales). What they do want to do though is to keep interested those people who are here for the long run - and most of those who are here for the long run will tell you that this change is great, overall. The milkshake may be of smaller size, but over time you'll get to try out more different flavours (including some of your favourites from the past).

What a moronic statement. I want all 8 new dungeons for Season 1 because that is what the standard is. There was 10 brand new dungeons in Mythic+ Season 1 of Legion, 10 brand new dungeons in Mythic+ Season 1 of BFA, and 8 brand new dungeons in Mythic+ Season 1 of Shadowlands. So they need to keep that same standard going forward by giving us all 8 brand new dungeons for Mythic+ Season 1 of DF.

And I've played through every single Season of Mythic+. I've got hundreds of runs on all of those dungeons. KSM in every season. KS:Hero as well.

They can supplement future seasons with old, shitty rehashes. But not the very first season. That needs to have the standard 8 brand new dungeons.

[Alroxas]

I said 6 months before SL was released that weekly bingo lottery is garbage and was garbage (I did play SL). You can't fix shit that is broken on fundamental level ie mobile lootbox magically spawning loot at the specific time each week which turns content into checklist. No matter how many "bad luck protection" systems they add to it it won't change a feeling that you dont do dungeons for drops but to get bingo tickets.

The Creation Catalyst + GV seems to be working just fine now. Granted in 1 more week, it'll be redundant unless you're going after tier pieces with tertiary stats.

It won't tho. Fatigue will already begin at 50% due to half of dungeons being old. I would be already fatigued at the damned season start, not to mention due to low dungeon pool, fatigue will reach 100% super fast.

Then we agree to disagree then because even when you take "old" dungeons and put them in M+, they are still challenging and refreshing. Legion M+ TW dungeons seemed fairly well received by most of the player base.

And how is it a low dungeon pool? Players started SL with 8 M+ dungeons... Players will start DF with 8 M+ dungeons. Now 4 of those M+ dungeons in DF may be "older" dungeons but it's not out of the realm of possibility that those older dungeons get a revamp.

Previous xpacs have brought older dungeons back to relevancy with slight revamps... Thinking of Deadmines from Cata or Scholomance from MoP.

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If they can do it in one patch, they can do it in another. Its sad how low of a standart many players keep accepting.

So we ARE moving goal posts then... Ok just wanted to make sure.

They are most likely not making any of those in Dragonflight. There are 5 Zones. Raid, 8 dungeons.

Except you're also cherry picking a few things here. First, we don't know if there are more zones to be added in. Argus wasn't a known zone to be added when Legion launched. Did we know we were going back to older zones in BFA (Uldum and Vale specifically) at Launch?

Additionally, interviews so far indicate that the Dragon Isles are suppose to be as large as Northrend. Granted again we don't know until alpha/beta rolls out.

Expectations so low in this thread. Sad.

What's more sad is folks jumping to conclusions before actually seeing it. Sure being skeptical is fine, after all it's all PR speak until we see the actual content, but such labeling prior to actual hands on seems... premature at this point.

[kaminaris]

The Creation Catalyst + GV seems to be working just fine now. Granted in 1 more week, it'll be redundant unless you're going after tier pieces with tertiary stats.

Tier sets are trash design too, its a talent slapped on gear that locks gear slots. Not to mention RNG to get - its most important at the START of patch, not when everyone doing raids already have em.

Then we agree to disagree then because even when you take "old" dungeons and put them in M+, they are still challenging and refreshing. Legion M+ TW dungeons seemed fairly well received by most of the player base.

And how is it a low dungeon pool? Players started SL with 8 M+ dungeons... Players will start DF with 8 M+ dungeons. Now 4 of those M+ dungeons in DF may be "older" dungeons but it's not out of the realm of possibility that those older dungeons get a revamp.

Previous xpacs have brought older dungeons back to relevancy with slight revamps... Thinking of Deadmines from Cata or Scholomance from MoP.

Don't get me wrong, having old content made relevant again is good thing, but not at cost of drip-feeding new content. And not selective timegating like they tried to do with mage tower. Its shit design and they still didn't learn that lesson. Blizzard is obsessed with controling how player play.

[Alroxas]

What a moronic statement. I want all 8 new dungeons for Season 1 because that is what the standard is.

Maybe the standard should be changed? I mean since Legion, it's been standard that we have borrowed power systems like Artifact weapons, Heart o' Azeroth, Covenants...

And we're (supposedly) moving away from that in Dragonflight which most players would say is a good thing...

So maybe having the standard change from 8 DF dungeons for M+ at launch to 4 now and 4 later makes the game more refreshing until season 2 is over with. Sure it might be "drip feeding" but technically you can experience all 8 dungeons in both Heroic and Mythic+0 at expansion launch.

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Blizzard is obsessed with controling how player play.

I mean it is THEIR game... players could always choose to play something else...

Shit even in other MMOs, you don't own the game... you have a limited license that allows you to play on THEIR terms, not yours.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Maybe the standard should be changed? I mean since Legion, it's been standard that we have borrowed power systems like Artifact weapons, Heart o' Azeroth, Covenants...

And we're (supposedly) moving away from that in Dragonflight which most players would say is a good thing...

So maybe having the standard change from 8 DF dungeons for M+ at launch to 4 now and 4 later makes the game more refreshing until season 2 is over with. Sure it might be "drip feeding" but technically you can experience all 8 dungeons in both Heroic and Mythic+0 at expansion launch.

Moving away from having all brand new dungeons available for Mythic+ Season 1 is wrong and should not happen. Borrowed powers are a completely different topic and therefore irrelevant.

And anyone that plays this game with even a modicum of competitiveness abandons heroic and Mythic+ 0 versions right when the first Mythic+ Season starts. They may as well not even exist to Mythic+ players.

And those lesser versions are irrelevant to this topic anyway. This is strictly and specifically about all of the brand new Dragonflight dungeons not being available for Mythic+ season 1. Nothing else.

[Trenbolone]

What's more sad is folks jumping to conclusions before actually seeing it. Sure being skeptical is fine, after all it's all PR speak until we see the actual content, but such labeling prior to actual hands on seems... premature at this point.

seriously, dude? Blizz doesnt give us anything but doubts for years now.

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I mean it is THEIR game... players could always choose to play something else...

Shit even in other MMOs, you don't own the game... you have a limited license that allows you to play on THEIR terms, not yours.

100% Agree. Shut it and play. Its just a game. That is the correct way. A bit robotic and sad but this is the way, honestly. Its just passionate people like me who can see the possibilities and crave for more. But ultimately, it does not matter. Its their game and you having anything within is just an illusion.

Still pissed about how they design it tho. God damned clowns!

[Black Rider]

What? Seriously. What?!

https://www.wowhead.com/news/old-dun...26781#comments

Didnt they learn from MEGA dungeons? You run those twice at best before their M+ implementation. Normal/Heroic dungeons are obsolete after 2 weeks into the expansion.

Leave old dungeons for TW god dammit!

Give us new dungeons with every major content patch instead!

8 NEW dungs for the launch of DF.
4 of new dungs for M+, 4 of old guns for M+ season 1.
S2 changes things

[KarlZ]

did they say which old dungeons are they goin to implement

[TheWorkingTitle]

8 NEW dungs for the launch of DF.
4 of new dungs for M+, 4 of old guns for M+ season 1.
S2 changes things

This is why reading comprehension is so important. This is about Mythic+ Season 1. Where only 4 new DF dungeons are being made available.

[Alroxas]

seriously, dude? Blizz doesnt give us anything but doubts for years now.

1 Word: Legion.

Its just passionate people like me who can see the possibilities and crave for more.

But you don't really do anything about it except for complain. You don't go out and try to make a better version or even go work for Blizzard to make the possibilities reality.

Instead, we critique without actually affecting change. Be honestly, the sides are clearly drawn. Few (if any) will be swayed in having their opinions changed due to the 4 "DF" M+ dungeons for season 1.

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did they say which old dungeons are they goin to implement

From today's Twitter Space interview, we're probably looking at dungeons as far back as MoP and excluding dungeons in BFA and SL. Older than MoP dungeons are possible but would require more work.

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Moving away from having all brand new dungeons available for Mythic+ Season 1 is wrong and should not happen.

Why though? There's been no argument aside: from hey this is the way it was done before and therefore it should be the same now.

This is strictly and specifically about all of the brand new Dragonflight dungeons not being available for Mythic+ season 1. Nothing else.

And again, if given the choice, why would you want to have all 8 new DF dungeons for the ENTIRE xpac versus a rotating set of 4 (of 8) per season?

So you can push all the dungeons to KSM for all the DF dungeons in the first month. Congrats, you've won the M+ game and I hope you enjoy repeating that feat again in season 2 with the same dungeons. Season 3 will have the mega-dungeon finally added in as M+ (after being split into two) but beyond that, you're doing the same thing over and over again.

What is so appealing about having the same eight dungeons for M+ for over a year?

[Niwes]

Just because I don’t play this current expansion that is god awful doesn’t mean I don’t understand the game at it’s core and am able to contribute. Why do I have to play a game to discuss it, that’s stupid lol

to saying „why do i need to do something actual X when talking about actual X?“ is stupid.

or in short: when you wanna talk about actual wow without playing actual wow, you simple habe no clue what you talk about. you just talk shit others that play the actual game said.

how can someone even discuss this ??? crazy

[Dractier]

to saying „why do i need to do something actual X when talking about actual X?“ is stupid.

or in short: when you wanna talk about actual wow without playing actual wow, you simple habe no clue what you talk about. you just talk shit others that play the actual game said.

how can someone even discuss this ??? crazy

Ok let’s say you quit today and dragon flight gets released, and you hear in dragon flight they required you to play 500 hours to upgrade 1% of your gear, you believe you shouldn’t be able to have an opinion or discuss that at all then right?

[Niwes]

I think they specifically said already that they will modify the loot tables of the old dungeons they add to adress concerns with gearing. Pre-legion dungeons usually had very simple trinkets anyway so they can easily be replaced with more interesting items.

yes, ofc. but thats not what i speculated or questioned about.

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Ok let’s say you quit today and dragon flight gets released, and you hear in dragon flight they required you to play 500 hours to upgrade 1% of your gear, you believe you shouldn’t be able to have an opinion or discuss that at all then right?

you compare apples with oranges.

if you say the same, when i quit today, DF is releaed AND IS ALREADY RUNNING SINCE 2 YEARS

THEN you stopped comparing apples with oranges.

YOU talk about actual wow stuff and/or Shadowlands without playing 90% or more of Shadowlands and wanna talk about actual wow. thats not the same you try to compare here.

heck, i talked about GV, a feature you not even used once in life, when not played SL at all. not that anything is not BS in SL. but sorry, stop talking about stuff you never experienced by your own. it let’s you just look like a complete idiot tbh. sorry.

[Trenbolone]

Dungeon Teleports have been added for Grimrail Depot, Iron Docks, Operation: Mechagon and Return to Karazhan.

Hate Iron Docks personally. But it got voted for i guess. Be prepeared to run your most hated dungeons from the past in Dragonflight S1. I personally hope it will be Slag Mines, oh how awful dungeon that is.

And this is the problem. It wont be Deadmines, it wont be Scarlet Monastery (they confirmed in twitter interview it will be MoP, WoD, Legion dungeons). Dont know about you but i didnt like any of the M+ for Legion timewalking.
I'm not looking forward to running MoP dungeons again - there is so few of them and since they are "fastest" for leveling, i've been doing them in recent expansions so much while leveling...
WoD? I like some of them aestheticaly. They were nightmare in TW tho..

Still not convinced by their lazy format for S1 in Dragonflight and still very worried about it..

[Glorious Leader]

Its really just spacing out the content so you get the same or less. You used to get like a mega dungeon or whatever in a subsequent patch now they can use the remaining 4 dungeons. The budget must be real tight.

[Rageonit]

What a moronic statement. I want all 8 new dungeons for Season 1 because that is what the standard is.

Apparently you wanting something doesn't mean it will happen, and something being a standard in the past doesn't mean it will never change.
Who would have thought!

[La]

Good thing there isn't a mode for dungeons, where you can do them infinitely for rewards and that, due to the replayability, it'd be really important to have as many as possible.

Ooooh, wait, that's what M+ is!