Proof that old Talents promoted more originality from players

[ellieg]

So? Why do you care how someone else plays? Those "15 bad ones" better suited those specific player's playstyle, and they were having more fun with it. Who are you to tell people how they should play a game?

While it's been far too long since I've used them, I remember hearing people complain about some of my talent builds--especially with my paladin tank during TBC, and later my death knight tank in Wrath--only to have them completely turn around and compliment me on how effective I was with the "bad" choices I made.

Personally, I find people who only know how to "play" (and I use that term quite incorrectly) the game because they copy what other people have done to be the really shitty players. And when they go around complaining when anyone else isn't "playing" the same way as them/what they read online, it makes it even more embarrassing. For them.

Because joining a dungeon with a melee moonkin, damage disc priest, and 2hand tank warrior isn't a very fun experience.

The current system protects players from making terrible choices

[Mekh]

I think I remember playing a Honor Among Thieves Rogue for a week or two when we were farming Icecrown as a proof of concept. The novelty wore off quickly.

[Lochton]

Yes, we had the freedom to make specs but in the end, the cookie-cutter prevailed, and I remember back then, you could even get kicked from a raid for not having the cookie-cutter build.

[Nymrohd]

Because joining a dungeon with a melee moonkin, damage disc priest, and 2hand tank warrior isn't a very fun experience.

The current system protects players from making terrible choices

Oh damn, I did that run in Strat back in Vanilla!

[erifwodahs]

So? Why do you care how someone else plays? Those "15 bad ones" better suited those specific player's playstyle, and they were having more fun with it. Who are you to tell people how they should play a game?

We don't until they are in our group and not pulling their weight. If you meme spec is good enough to drag your ass - knock yourself out, but if others have to pick up the slack - get a boot, which is consequences for their own actions, because it's a multiplayer game. It goes both ways, if you are a sweatlord who kicks anyone for specing two talents into pvp'ish option rather than PvE - people might not join you. Or only your kind of players will.

[Miyagie]

I played in Wotlk the Prot Heal Pala and it was broken.
You just healed both tanks to max HP every 2 sec and with the glyphe all melees got 10% of this 2 heals.
In Battlegrounds i could def the flag most time alone.

[Rockefellah]

My favorite: POM Pyro pvp mage

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Because joining a dungeon with a melee moonkin, damage disc priest, and 2hand tank warrior isn't a very fun experience.

The current system protects players from making terrible choices

2-h tank warriors worked fine in vanilla up to lvl 50. OP? Yes in a bit, as you were defacto running 4x DPS, 1x Heal, but it was great fun.

[Unholyvamp]

No but seriously. Most of those (if not all) were circumstantial at best.

Point being that originality doesn't equal usefulness.

[Darkimpact]

I love watching people who love playing with legos arguing with the barbie (now with interchangable shoes!!!) loving crowd. Keep it up guys, you specifically are totally right and that other guy is just plain wrong. I totally agree with you (specific reader currently reading this) GET EM!

[Infinity Cubed]

Because joining a dungeon with a melee moonkin, damage disc priest, and 2hand tank warrior isn't a very fun experience.

The current system protects players from making terrible choices

I'm well aware of your people's feeble attempts at rationalization.

"Form your own group," I believe, is your arrogant and ignorant response when other people whine about not wanting to do content with players they don't care for. Funny how it never works when you're the one whining, though.

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We don't until they are in our group and not pulling their weight.

See above.

(And, apparently, that's exclusively because of their talent choices. Anyone who carbon copies your talent build must, by extension, be the perfect player and 100% a dream to play alongside. Amirite or amirite?)

[ellieg]

I'm well aware of your people's feeble attempts at rationalization.

"Form your own group," I believe, is your arrogant and ignorant response when other people whine about not wanting to do content with players they don't care for. Funny how it never works when you're the one whining, though.

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See above.

(And, apparently, that's exclusively because of their talent choices. Anyone who carbon copies your talent build must, by extension, be the perfect player and 100% a dream to play alongside. Amirite or amirite?)

No shit we would form our own groups. But when you invite a warlock you have the expectation that you are inviting a caster. Not a dude running around with a Firestone auto attacking. Its a difference of 5x the amount of dps based on their talents. In old dungeons with no mechanic, its whatever. That's why it was fine back then. With today's difficulty, it just dsnt work. You could play that in LFR today, jist don't come to real content like that. Its the equivalent of doing a m+15 where all the dps are doing 3k overall. Its just not gonna happen.

The talent system of today was made to reduce the gap between worst performing spec and best performing.

So when you form your own group, "moonkin" tells u enough of what u need to know without inspecting all of their talent points to know that they actually meant "i melee with my staff as I spam moonfire and do 25% of the dps other moonkins do"

[deenman]

I played in Wotlk the Prot Heal Pala and it was broken.
You just healed both tanks to max HP every 2 sec and with the glyphe all melees got 10% of this 2 heals.
In Battlegrounds i could def the flag most time alone.

I did that also,but that wasnt an example of a cool original idea,it was an unintended case,hence why it was nerfed in to the ground next patch

[Infinity Cubed]

No shit we would form our own groups. But when you invite a warlock you have the expectation that you are inviting a caster. Not a dude running around with a Firestone auto attacking.

How is that any different from inviting anyone else you've never met before who turns out to be a bad player (assuming they even are a bad player just because they don't play the way you think they should be played)?

The arrogance and ignorance is astounding with you people. And you wonder why everyone looks down on you.

[Aydinx2]

for every 1 brokenly good mishmash spec, there are 15 bad ones

If people had fun playing the bad specs, that alone justifies having them as an option.

[Lionhearte0]

Bad game design is what allowed these builds. Also, the Dragonflight talents are not the same as the original system. They work differently.

Is it bad game design if it allowed variety and enabled viable alternate playstyles?

[kranur]

Truth is, having a choice means that there is really no choice as a set of choices will be the best for a given situation (even if marginally).
With that said, it's obviously better to have the old (or the updated DF) system, rather than what is currently on retail. On one hand it's more satiafying when leveling (especially for new players) where you get a little bit of bonus every time you level, and it's always nice to have more options to choose from for the more outaide the box players ... some crazy soloing for example.

[ellieg]

How is that any different from inviting anyone else you've never met before who turns out to be a bad player (assuming they even are a bad player just because they don't play the way you think they should be played)?

The arrogance and ignorance is astounding with you people. And you wonder why everyone looks down on you.

Who are you talking about when you say "ppl like me"? You seem very upset and im not sure why.

The difference is that based on ilvl and spec today you have a good idea about the role and quality that they will perform. Back then you invited a class and had 0 idea if they were going to melee or ranged or even try to tank or heal. Are they gonna do multiple roles at once? Are they gonna do 1 role really well or just do 1k dps moonfire spamming?

Idc if they are an amazing player if they are playing a spec literally only capable of doing 1/5 the dps of a dif spec. Its the outcome I care about.

[Myradin]

Frostfire mage was effectively just fire but you cast Frostfire bolt instead of firebolt, and was largely a product of frost being bad...and then it too was beat out by Arcane and Fire, just as the vid said.

It could have just been a talent for Fire that swapped your firebolt and did some extra frosty stuff in the MoP-SL system.

[Echo of Soul]

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BbgROZ9STY

Video features crazy player created specs from Wrath era:

-Honor Among Thieves Rogue
-AoE Fan of Knives interrupt and silence Rogue (pvp)
-Spell Power Enhancement Shaman
-Pro Holy Paladin (converting stamina into spell power...later changed to strength into spell power)
-Preg Pala (Prot Holy Ret Paladin)
-Necromancer caster ranged Deathknight (pvp)
-Dancing rune blood DK DPS (pre nerf)
-Arms Prot Tank Warrior
-Frostfire Mage

And there were many more player created inventions in specs some of which had to be nerfed.

No there was a cookie cutter spec and everyone used it without exception. The old talent system was pointless since there was only one correct choice.

[erifwodahs]

(And, apparently, that's exclusively because of their talent choices. Anyone who carbon copies your talent build must, by extension, be the perfect player and 100% a dream to play alongside. Amirite or amirite?)

Which part of "until they are not pulling their weight" is too hard to understand? People pulling their weight, good or bad build are not causing any issues. Read what is written, not what you want to read.