An Eye on Player Behavior and Reporting Improvements in Patch 9.2.5

[Lady Atia]

Warmode wasn't always a thing. The previous policy was "You chose to play on a PvP realm or to enable pvp so it's your own fault if you get camped for hours by someone 40 levels higher than you." Not really much different, but they did make it more appealing to turn on PvP because almost no one wanted to take that risk for no benefit at all. I don't play with warmode because I don't want the griefing and I think that's a good option.

I personally don't understand why we need to cut mean people out of the game when they could just improve their block function to block accounts instead of characters and take off or heavily increase the blacklist cap. I don't like the Chinese restaurant culture where if you want to order you scream at the waitress, but I'm not going around petitioning to force them to change. I wasn't a fan of early 2000's online gamer culture where screaming slurs in voice chat was the norm, but I just turned off voice chat and played just fine rather than request the game company ban everyone who did it. If people want to engage that way, that's fine to me, it doesn't mean I need to engage back nor does it mean I need to prevent them from playing. We don't need giant companies enforcing rules that could easily be enforced by guilds, communities, friends, and yourself.

My guild does a lot of shit talking, and rules like this could lead to a destruction of a performance critical culture we've had for over a decade. We aren't assholes unless you have such thin skin that a statement of fact sends you into a ban frenzy state of rage. The funniest part to me is that we've raised up dozens of players to be better at the game by pointing out their weaknesses, and that these people enjoy the game more because their performance has gotten better by realizing those weaknesses. Those people playing better then make the game more enjoyable for others that they group with. Being called shit is what spurred me on to be better at the game, and even if that's not what works for you, criticism of that method is denial of the very thing that helped me enjoy playing this game for over a decade rather than just quitting back in BC.

All this reminds me of the people who fight to make Boot Camp an inclusive and kind experience when the whole point is to put you through unpleasant shit to prepare you for the future. It's just antithetical to the results that you want. A solid point of putting people through shit is to weed out weak people that you don't want on your side when it actually matters.

What a toxic wall of text. People like you are the reason we need this social contract in the first place. WoW isn't the army and you surely didn't "raise players to become better".

[Relapses]

What a toxic wall of text. People like you are the reason we need this social contract in the first place. WoW isn't the army and you surely didn't "raise players to become better".

He didn't compare WoW to the army. He said that being called shit by other players has helped him become a non-shit player. That's the culture that he's afraid is going to disappear once this social contract comes into play. I think it's a bit paranoid myself but nothing that dude wrote was toxic.

[Lady Atia]

He didn't compare WoW to the army. He said that being called shit by other players has helped him become a non-shit player. That's the culture that he's afraid is going to disappear once this social contract comes into play. I think it's a bit paranoid myself but nothing that dude wrote was toxic.

It is toxic though? Why would anyone want to have a culture/society where people call each other shit? Besides that, who is he to decide who he is "shit" in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

PS: You can help people to become better without being an asshole. And if the new contract destroys the cultures that dude wants to preserve, well that's a big plus point for it.

[Relapses]

It is toxic though? Why would anyone want to have a culture/society where people call each other shit? Besides that, who is he to decide who he is "shit" in the first place.

What kind of weird, fragile world are you living in where somebody telling you, "hey, you kinda played like shit back there" is considered toxic? This isn't bro culture. It's a way people communicate with one another. Maybe it's less flowery than a Blizzard HR rep might approve but this is a video game where we slay internet dragons for imaginary loot. When the powers-that-be start policing the words people use to convey simple every day occurrences it does tend to make you wonder where the slippery slope ends.

[pahbi]

A social contract?

Really?

I can't wait to play a game where a bunch of self important self righteous triggered hipsters run around reporting everyone who doesn't conform to their standards of play.

[SinR]

A social contract?

Really?

I can't wait to play a game where a bunch of self important self righteous triggered hipsters run around reporting everyone who doesn't conform to their standards of play.

Spoiler Alert: You already are

[Jester Joe]

He didn't compare WoW to the army. He said that being called shit by other players has helped him become a non-shit player. That's the culture that he's afraid is going to disappear once this social contract comes into play. I think it's a bit paranoid myself but nothing that dude wrote was toxic.

?? He straight up mentioned boot camp, and the whole idea of insulting people to break them and remold them is pretty much straight out of military training. The whole "a group that suffers together forges an unbreakable bond" and all that mental jazz.

Granted it goes far deeper than that but I think the gist is understood.

[Goatfish]

What a toxic wall of text. People like you are the reason we need this social contract in the first place. WoW isn't the army and you surely didn't "raise players to become better".

I'm so glad you can speak for the people who have been my friends for years as well as the many groups and individuals we've formed good relationships with. We are a community of more hardcore players that expect at least reasonable performance. If you can't handle being called a shitter when we bring you in on farm, you sure as heck aren't going to make it through wipe number 200 on a prog boss when we call you out for fucking up a mechanic. There are plenty of communities where you can be all sunshine and rainbows and are still wiping to normal bosses 3 months into the patch, we aren't the community for you if that's what you want, and I don't believe we should be forced to change our proven methods just because you want to play morality police. You don't have to be part of my community, and I don't have to be part of yours, and we can both play the game side by side without causing each other any harm.

So my questions are; Why are you so opposed to other people with methods different from yours merely existing in the same game? Why should we have to be cautious about inviting people who can just report us even after we give full disclosure that we hold people accountable and may not use as nice of language as you prefer?

You go around irl insulting people regularly?

Are you serious?

You understand there is a huge difference between actions that you find desirable and rights? Also sure, I call other drivers lunatics and assholes all the time, I'll definitely bite that bullet that I insult strangers on at least a weekly basis and it's completely justified. I don't drive like an asshole in return to try and force them off the road, or call the cops every time I see someone driving like shit so that I can get their license revoked. If there is someone swerving all over the road or some other extreme action then I would, but only the most deluded snowflakes would call the police on every person who cut them off in traffic or was driving slower than you'd like in a no passing zone. Most people just accept that as long as we allow people to drive that there are going to be shitty drivers.

[idunnowatdo]

Whole lot of people pressed that they are gonna get tagged when they decide to be toxic. Just don’t be dicks to each other and don’t be toxic.

[aceperson]

so it's still all automated? well, i guess blizz don't actually care about toxicity.

[Jester Joe]

so it's still all automated? well, i guess blizz don't actually care about toxicity.

They literally said they pulled together a team to work on improving the system.

And yet the first reaction is still "IT'S ALL AUTOMATED STILL?!".

there's always going to be a certain level of automation. Expecting every report to be handled individually would be insane.

[Goatfish]

?? He straight up mentioned boot camp, and the whole idea of insulting people to break them and remold them is pretty much straight out of military training. The whole "a group that suffers together forges an unbreakable bond" and all that mental jazz.

Granted it goes far deeper than that but I think the gist is understood.

Yea, the mentality and effect are pretty proven at this point. It's adopted by the military within training, but it's also used in almost every hard labor job where crunch time is a real issue with physical consequences. We're talking kitchens, construction, arborists, even the medical field puts you through residency. Gaming is a simulacrum of these real world situations highlighted by the most difficult content in the game. I know there is a section of people on this forum that want to get rid of difficult content, but that's really antithetical to forming the game they want to play. Even if we look at FF14, I assure you the high end savage raiding guilds are not all sunshine and rainbows and will get after people for messing up.

Do I think that everyone should have to go through a WoW boot camp? No. Do I think that having at least some of those experiences is beneficial even if unpleasant? A resounding yes. If you can't learn to handle dealing with the occasional asshole, you're going to have a hell of a time going through life.

[Relapses]

I'm so glad you can speak for the people who have been my friends for years as well as the many groups and individuals we've formed good relationships with. We are a community of more hardcore players that expect at least reasonable performance. If you can't handle being called a shitter when we bring you in on farm, you sure as heck aren't going to make it through wipe number 200 on a prog boss when we call you out for fucking up a mechanic. There are plenty of communities where you can be all sunshine and rainbows and are still wiping to normal bosses 3 months into the patch, we aren't the community for you if that's what you want, and I don't believe we should be forced to change our proven methods just because you want to play morality police. You don't have to be part of my community, and I don't have to be part of yours, and we can both play the game side by side without causing each other any harm.

So my questions are; Why are you so opposed to other people with methods different from yours merely existing in the same game? Why should we have to be cautious about inviting people who can just report us even after we give full disclosure that we hold people accountable and may not use as nice of language as you prefer?



You understand there is a huge difference between actions that you find desirable and rights? Also sure, I call other drivers lunatics and assholes all the time, I'll definitely bite that bullet that I insult strangers on at least a weekly basis and it's completely justified. I don't drive like an asshole in return to try and force them off the road, or call the cops every time I see someone driving like shit so that I can get their license revoked. If there is someone swerving all over the road or some other extreme action then I would, but only the most deluded snowflakes would call the police on every person who cut them off in traffic or was driving slower than you'd like in a no passing zone. Most people just accept that as long as we allow people to drive that there are going to be shitty drivers.

You're positioning this social contract as if it will impact all areas of communication in WoW. A good majority of the discussion you're referencing, however, occurs in third party voice communication services which Blizzard has absolutely no control over; I'm pretty sure this is designed only to curb in-game text conversation so you can still have the exact culture you're describing as long as you're not saying it in tells or in raid/party chat.

[Chilela]

Meh, blatant PR move, and the "new" report feature sounds basically identical to the one that was in place when I unsubbed back in 9.1.

[mcnally86]

I am so confused why people are getting mad they cannot call out shit players in their hardcore raids.

Hate to break it to you buddy, if you aren't discord your aren't in a hardcore raid. If you were a good player you would not be talking to people over moderated wow chat.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, the mentality and effect are pretty proven at this point. It's adopted by the military within training, but it's also used in almost every hard labor job where crunch time is a real issue with physical consequences. We're talking kitchens, construction, arborists, even the medical field puts you through residency. Gaming is a simulacrum of these real world situations highlighted by the most difficult content in the game. I know there is a section of people on this forum that want to get rid of difficult content, but that's really antithetical to forming the game they want to play. Even if we look at FF14, I assure you the high end savage raiding guilds are not all sunshine and rainbows and will get after people for messing up.

Do I think that everyone should have to go through a WoW boot camp? No. Do I think that having at least some of those experiences is beneficial even if unpleasant? A resounding yes. If you can't learn to handle dealing with the occasional asshole, you're going to have a hell of a time going through life.

What hardcore boot camp experience are you going through in /I my guy?

[Bladesyphon]

Who the fuck has the right to not be insulted? What sort of clown world are you living in?

...Everyone? I'm pretty sure everyone has the right to not be insulted. I'm not sure I'm reading your post right - are you seriously insinuating people should just be okay with going somewhere, and having someone throw insults, derogatory names and slurs, and otherwise treat them like absolute shit? Because literally every place of business, and nearly all public outdoor locations and venues, enforces the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

I am legitimately confused here at what your thought process is here on this subject.

[panda040]

cringe and gay, the game already has had ignore forever. If someone is a dick or you just don't like them you can ignore them. Just more woke bullshit and dev ideology being injected into the game. amazing.

[kamuimac]

I am so confused why people are getting mad they cannot call out shit players in their hardcore raids.

well for once maybe if bad players wouldnt try to join groups baove their skills in hope of being boosted they wouldnt be called "shit" ?

i mean how many keys were destroyed because of bad gameplay yet somehow blizzard doesnt see this as cause of toxicity - toxic are frustrated people who are frustrated because of "shit players" destroying their keys and experience in game

game with its current tuning is build on toxic foundations so this will help with nothing but further alienate playerbase.

[MatthewOU2015]

Dont want to get banned?

Dont be a jerk to players in-game.

Ive played wow for 13 years and never got in trouble at all

[kamuimac]

...Everyone? I'm pretty sure everyone has the right to not be insulted. I'm not sure I'm reading your post right - are you seriously insinuating people should just be okay with going somewhere, and having someone throw insults, derogatory names and slurs, and otherwise treat them like absolute shit? Because literally every place of business, and nearly all public outdoor locations and venues, enforces the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

I am legitimately confused here at what your thought process is here on this subject.

i have yet to see anyone throwing slurs in game when runs go smooth and everything dies as it is supposed to die.

strange in this runs nobody curses and nobody uses slurs

but then suddnely you have this od run now and then when someone performs atrociusly bad. and then indeed slurs happen - guess why they happen though - because someone destroyed the gaming experience of 4 - 19 other people

yet blizz has no problem with that .