Willow..... 2?

[Skildar]

I've watched the Willow for the first time a couple of months ago and it was bit a nice experience. Maybe at the time, it was a great movie but since then the prophetic story has been told many times with better characters, rythm and stakes. The whole world feels nonsensical which is a bit sad.

It felt like a children book that's been tortured and distorted in order to fit the epic medieval fantastic genre. Anyway I don't recommend a watch.

The worst part of the movie is definitely the role of the princess.

I'm still curious to how well Willow 2 going to play on US audience

[Goatfish]

Multiple people when they cried that people appear clean at all. Hell, you pushed it yourself after that first question.

Ah yes, always a good reminder that this forum is overflowing with absolute tools who will lie their asses off to win any argument no matter how batshit it makes them look and how easy it is to scroll back a single page to prove them wrong. Absolute sophistry abounds.

I'm glad we have moral arbiters of good faith like you to keep people in check and provide excellent conversation.

[eschatological]

Ah yes, always a good reminder that this forum is overflowing with absolute tools who will lie their asses off to win any argument no matter how batshit it makes them look and how easy it is to scroll back a single page to prove them wrong. Absolute sophistry abounds.

I'm glad we have moral arbiters of good faith like you to keep people in check and provide excellent conversation.

If the trailer is one slice of an entire movie, and you complain about one slice of the movie where the characters look too clean, you're assuming they look that way the entire film, and deriding the "clean" nature of the movie when it's possibly it's just using the shots where the characters look most put together for, yanno......PR purposes.

There are moments in the LOTR movies where everyone looks way too clean. Like at the funeral for Theodan's son, or the crowning of the King, or at Bilbo's 111th birthday party, or when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White, or at the Council of Elrond. If you strung those all into a trailer, the movie would look "too clean" yet the actual movie itself is far from it.

That's basically the argument. And it's the oldest argument on these forums: you shouldn't judge anything, good or bad, from a fucking trailer.

The pedantry on these forums is hilarious, and you want to accuse others of sophistry, lol.

[elmoe420]

I've watched the Willow for the first time a couple of months ago and it was bit a nice experience. Maybe at the time, it was a great movie but since then the prophetic story has been told many times with better characters, rythm and stakes. The whole world feels nonsensical which is a bit sad.

It felt like a children book that's been tortured and distorted in order to fit the epic medieval fantastic genre. Anyway I don't recommend a watch.

The worst part of the movie is definitely the role of the princess.

I'm still curious to how well Willow 2 going to play on US audience

Just had my wife watch this for the first time last week in anticipation of the new show. She loved it but she is also an elementary school teacher and a big fan of children film and literature. In particular, she was surprised how well the special effects had weathered the test of time considering it was made 36 years ago.

I wonder if you would have enjoyed it more if you were the target audience, that being an elementary aged child in the '80s.

[Goatfish]

If the trailer is one slice of an entire movie, and you complain about one slice of the movie where the characters look too clean, you're assuming they look that way the entire film, and deriding the "clean" nature of the movie when it's possibly it's just using the shots where the characters look most put together for, yanno......PR purposes.

There are moments in the LOTR movies where everyone looks way too clean. Like at the funeral for Theodan's son, or the crowning of the King, or at Bilbo's 111th birthday party, or when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White, or at the Council of Elrond. If you strung those all into a trailer, the movie would look "too clean" yet the actual movie itself is far from it.

That's basically the argument. And it's the oldest argument on these forums: you shouldn't judge anything, good or bad, from a fucking trailer.

The pedantry on these forums is hilarious, and you want to accuse others of sophistry, lol.

I'm not the one building strawmen of other peoples claims into saying something they aren't. I'm also not the one who came into this thread saying "The books were repeatedly raping the story". I'm the pedantic one for saying (and I quote)

We're instead going to showcase people who supposedly live in the middle/dark ages but look like they take 4 baths a day, always have brand new clothes, perfect hair, and wear enough make-up that it acts as armor. I don't know if I'll bother watching it despite being a big fan of the original growing up. It looks like they are just inserting the same generic fantasy story we've seen a million times into the Willow universe to try to make a buck off nostalgia, but we'll see as more information comes out.

Which apparently translated exactly to "NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE CLEAN", and I have to defend myself from their ridiculous fucking strawman?

You might be a mod, but fuck you for supporting this bullshit attitude. You are the problem.

[Skildar]

Just had my wife watch this for the first time last week in anticipation of the new show. She loved it but she is also an elementary school teacher and a big fan of children film and literature. In particular, she was surprised how well the special effects had weathered the test of time considering it was made 36 years ago.

I wonder if you would have enjoyed it more if you were the target audience, that being an elementary aged child in the '80s.

I'm finding that unfortunately few shows and motion pictures I've watched growing up I don't enjoy watching today. I've expanded my references and set higher standards, but it has the sickening effect of sucking the joy out of things from time to time.

In this case I'm not sure this is me being too difficult but I'm pretty sure as a child I would have enjoyed it a bit with the movie structure resembling one of a children's book.

[Fabinas]

If the trailer is one slice of an entire movie, and you complain about one slice of the movie where the characters look too clean, you're assuming they look that way the entire film, and deriding the "clean" nature of the movie when it's possibly it's just using the shots where the characters look most put together for, yanno......PR purposes.

There are moments in the LOTR movies where everyone looks way too clean. Like at the funeral for Theodan's son, or the crowning of the King, or at Bilbo's 111th birthday party, or when Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White, or at the Council of Elrond. If you strung those all into a trailer, the movie would look "too clean" yet the actual movie itself is far from it.

That's basically the argument. And it's the oldest argument on these forums: you shouldn't judge anything, good or bad, from a fucking trailer.

The pedantry on these forums is hilarious, and you want to accuse others of sophistry, lol.

Really, mate, stop defending people for reasons.

People complained the trailer looked too clean. And the usual argumentative suspects tried to persuade us that in ancient times it wasn't unusual that people were clean, because of soap and water.

Despite the fact that the majority did not have access to soap or running water, and even those who had, did not use them frequently as baths were deemed bad for health (especially in medieval times, even the renaissance).

And on top of it, they tried to use the existence of soap and water as an argument for cleanness in a fictional world and story.

Noone else argued what you did, which might as well be very on the spot.

[Infinity Cubed]

Ah yes, always a good reminder that this forum is overflowing with absolute tools who will lie their asses off to win any argument no matter how batshit it makes them look and how easy it is to scroll back a single page to prove them wrong. Absolute sophistry abounds.

I'm glad we have moral arbiters of good faith like you to keep people in check and provide excellent conversation.

Beaten to the punch.

I've watched the Willow for the first time a couple of months ago and it was bit a nice experience. Maybe at the time, it was a great movie but since then the prophetic story has been told many times with better characters, rythm and stakes. The whole world feels nonsensical which is a bit sad.

It felt like a children book that's been tortured and distorted in order to fit the epic medieval fantastic genre. Anyway I don't recommend a watch.

The worst part of the movie is definitely the role of the princess.

I'm still curious to how well Willow 2 going to play on US audience

This is pretty much what I said when I first saw the trailer. Honestly the only thing I really liked in the original movie was Madmartigan himself, and that was due to a combination of Val Kilmer being a great character actor, his natural charisma at the time, and the character himself being the lovable scoundrel that's amongst my most favorite tropes. So an entire series without him, or even suggestion of another character similar to him in the trailer, really has me meh.

The fact that it's also suffering from the "everything is new, clean, and pretty despite being set in a medieval Europe equivalent setting because the props guys couldn't be arsed with aging anything" only adds another nail of doubt to it for me. (But hey, soap exists, so that explains everything with that criticism. Somehow. For some reason.)

[Infinity Cubed]

You quoted the part where you made the argument and still deny it. Hilarious.

"Someone got a smidge of dirt on their cheek later on. CHECK AND MATE SUCKER!"

[Tiwack]

Looks like a half-assed replay of the original classic just to maintain a grip on the IP-rights. Disney in a nutshell.

[Goatfish]

"Someone got a smidge of dirt on their cheek later on. CHECK AND MATE SUCKER!"

I mean it's not as if there weren't any action or wilderness scenes in the trailer. It seems like Disney just threw a lot of money at it to capitalize on it as an off-brand LOTR with a nostalgic name. The initial movie and coinciding books described a really grungy, low tech, and nigh-apocalyptic world that I just don't feel looking at their costume design. Maybe some of that is the difference in budget, but I feel the low budget nature of the first film added to its charm and made it feel more real and less like LARP or Halloween costumes people are breaking out for a yearly convention.

I can't even bother arguing with someone who literally quotes what I said and pretends it says something else in the next sentence. The dishonesty is palpable.

[Endus]

Let's take another look at classic Willow;



And here he is in the new teaser;



Sure, the latter image is HD and I don't know what quality of remastering the original is, but are you folks seriously telling me you think the latter image is "too clean", or that the former is "just absolutely filthy"?

Frankly, the attention to detail between the two is great. The necklines and wrists, in particular, show a continuity of aesthetic design, since I think it's clear it's just a similar shirt, not intended to be the same one. But the shirt and vest in the latter image both appear pretty worn. More worn than in the shot from the original, where that shirt looks pretty new. Both images can be clicked for their original source in full resolution if you want to get more detail; I only put them on my imgur to more-easily control the size for posting (and in the full, it's definitely clear the original film's resolution isn't up to modern standards.)

[Svifnymr]

There’s a shot with a group of people sitting around (in a forest) who are suddenly ambushed — they look way too clean, especially if they’re supposed to be traveling. There’s a few other really clean-looking people in the trailer but it’s not that big of a deal. Not sure why there’s a whole page of bickering about it.

Because that's mostly what this forum has become, bickering about opinions as if they're arguing scientific principles.

Willow was a big thing back in the day, when this comes out I'll probably check it out if I don't hear horrible things about it. My expectations are that it will be horrible and if it's not, I'll enjoy it and move on with life. I don't see quoting it around the D&D game happening any time soon in either case, so it sort of feeds into what I said in the Marvel thread (and elsewhere). A lot of new materials just assume you're invested in the characters nowadays, rather than drawing you in. Like they figure if you showed up to watch it, they don't need to get you to care about the characters and things can just happen.

[Infinity Cubed]

There’s a shot with a group of people sitting around (in a forest) who are suddenly ambushed — they look way too clean, especially if they’re supposed to be traveling. There’s a few other really clean-looking people in the trailer but it’s not that big of a deal. Not sure why there’s a whole page of bickering about it.

It's simple.

A few people mentioned it and moved on.

Then the usual types had to come in and explode all over it, trying to explain how it's not actually a thing that should have been noticed. They then dig in, make up absolutely ridiculous arguments, ignore all context and reason, and just keep attacking -- yes, attacking -- anyone disagreeing with them. All while trying to act like they're some kind of paragon of reason and sensibility.

That's why.

[Infinity Cubed]

there were scenes like that early on in Willow as well. Before the journey left them dirty and battered.

You mean early ones like one of the first Newlyn scenes where most of the characters' clothes (and hair) were old, well worn, and/or natty? Those scenes?

[Koriani]

I’ve honestly never even seen the original Willow all the way through, only bits and pieces as I walked into the room — husband really loved the movie. I plan to watch both (series and movie), as I made a deal with my husband that I’d watch this if he’d watch Handmaid’s Tale.

Not really 'on topic' - just very amused at imagining the reaction to the very 180 'feels' of watching Willow vs. watching Handmaid's Tale. I hope he knows that how very not-fun his end of the trade off is =D.

I mean one is a 2 hour fun, fantasy, child-friendly adventurous lark of a movie with happy endings and feels all around. (We can't say anything about the series yet so only going on what we have so far.)

The other is a dark, disturbing, rape-filled series about a post-apocalypse future-earth where any 'feel good feelings' are, at best, given by the fulfillment of the viewers revenge fantasies on the 'worst of the worst' characters on the show. With no real "happy" endings.

I hope you warn him - his viewing will most probably be far more difficult than yours due to five seasons worth of disturbing, dark, content. Where the worst you may have to endure is ten episodes of a badly written fantasy series. I feel bad for him. (lol) I hope he doesn't have to watch all five seasons if he hates it!

[Greyvax]

Huge fan of the original. Didn't realize it will be a series and not a film. Will definitely be watching.

Sadly though, Madmartigan will be missed.

[Milchshake]

Obviously. You voted to make Handmaid’s Tale a reality. Better make sure hubby knows what you want outta life.

That thread after Ramsay raped Sansa really went places. But some people have a weird commitment to "gritty realism" in their fantasy.

[VMSmith]

Obviously. You voted to make Handmaid’s Tale a reality. Better make sure hubby knows what you want outta life.

Wow, what a despicable thing to say. Especially in a thread about a silly little fantasy show where this nasty comment had no purpose other than to be shitty to the person you quoted.

Why is there this little clique here that brings their politics into every thread and defends everything everyone of them says like a cult. I really can't see a difference between you folk and the Trump cult.

On topic, my wife loved the original movie so I'm going to watch it soon. Especially since I'm in the mood for some medieval fantasy. I've had Dragonslayer, Krull, and Legend on my mind lately. I want to try this out.

Speaking of Dragonslayer ... that was a movie that totally got the medieval peasant look down right. Everything thing looks well-lived in and worn, even the King and Princess's clothing.

[Endus]

Pointing out reality is despicable now? Weird.

Dude, it's Cinema/TV/Music/Books. I love politics. You know I love politics. Leave it in GenOT/Politics.