Proof Survival should be a tank spec in Dragonflight

[Nymrohd]

You can give every class a tank spec and you still won't see an appreciable change in tanks available for group content.

[Alkizon]

zyx
[*]Survival - It's pretty much in the name

You obviously decided to laugh at OP (I see this as sarcastic post), but in principle, if refer directly to him, then this quote-part is substitution of concepts, since "survival" often implies just different meaning - not "survive as endure direct damage/face it", but rather "survive as avoid/run away from meeting it/adjust". This was main idea of old direction, what they wanted to invest in it in new one... well, only god of randomness knows.

[Zarathos]

Im fine ty. Enough tanks, the ratio is perfect

[neescher]

Ummm literally every person I know who plays survival does not care about the dmg it does and prefer the playstyle.

Look at the top 1000 m+ runs with a survival hunter. How many of those do you think have played SV before it was meta? I guess it's about zero to none.

Sure, there are lots of survival players who have played it because they like the spec, but I'd say about 99% of current active survival players play it because it's meta.

I've been pretty active in m+ in season 1, and in the entire season I have seen one survival hunter. ONE.

[paxen]

I've been pretty active in m+ in season 1, and in the entire season I have seen one survival hunter. ONE.

Will note that the spec got a lot more fun to play With Mad Bombardier. That's a playstyle that didn't exist in seasons 1 and 2.

[neescher]

Will note that the spec got a lot more fun to play With Mad Bombardier. That's a playstyle that didn't exist in seasons 1 and 2.

I don't think that changes anything in a major way though. If they gave survival hunters a major nerf and it'd be more in line with other dps specs, or even worse than others, I guarantee the majority of survival players will switch class/spec.

[Xath]

No, you're presenting assumptions and suppositions. Not data. You have no numbers to back up your claim. Sorry 'bout it.

If literally one person plays one dungeon as sv tank that is an increase to the available tank population. This is a fact. It would help the tanking shortage the question is how much.

[Makaloff]

for the love of god stop trying to put a tank specc into the hunter class. want a tank specc? give it to shamans, they had the tools even back in vanilla, even if they never got a tank specc.

Let hunters be hunters, not to mention, survival is already controversial as it is due it was remade into a meele specc, making it into a tank specc would litterly kill the specc completly. besides, just beacuse you add more tank speccs it doesnt mean more people will play tanks, its a ungrateful job, stressful, you need to know routes and everything, and very few want that responsability.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude it's been like 6 years move on already, nobody can ever even mention the word survival in this game without someone like you popping up

well its still relevant 6 years down the line beacuse blizzard didnt even give an option to choose, they just took it away and replaced it completly. The fact that its being discussed 6 years down the line kinda shows how controversial the change to survival was, blizzard could have added MSV as a 4th specc or give it a option to be ranged throught a talent and i think alot of the controversity wouldnt exsist. but blizzard in their usual empty headed fashion thought they knew best and just nuked it without giving anything back. not to mention survivals rework completly screwed over MM too thanks to them trying to shove in 2 playstyles into 1 specc.

Just telling people to let it go and move on wont change anything, its just a attempt to put the subject down (however i can agree that some posters go over the line, but thats on both sides readlly)

[Selah]

I haven't been following Survival a lot over the years, but from what I understand it's really struggled as a melee spec, hasn't it? I'd much rather them solidify how Survival plays and then get a fourth spec actually dedicated to tank. Just my opinion though.

[Eosia]

If literally one person plays one dungeon as sv tank that is an increase to the available tank population. This is a fact. It would help the tanking shortage the question is how much.

Keyword there... "If". Not to mention the fact it has to be sustained long term for you to even be remotely correct. One person switching, deciding they hate it because of the real factors affecting the number of available tanks doesn't work the way you think it will.

Oh, and in case you haven't been playing the game since oh... ever, you'd know Survival is a DPS spec for Hunters. Blizzard is not going to change it from that to tanking. There has only ever been one spec in the history of WoW that did that which was Feral for Druids and that is a legacy of the Vanilla Talent Trees where one configuration was designed for tanking and another for DPS. This is why the Guardian Spec was added to that class as a 4th spec. They would have to do that with Hunters too. Except hunters have never been designed to be general tanks ever. Just some lone exception fights like I mentioned earlier.

Besides, a hunter that knows what they are doing and has good heals can tank in BM. Had to do that literally the very first instance I ran in WoD. Healer wasn't an issue since I already had them in Discord and they knew what to do.

[Makaloff]

Every spec in this game has changed drastically time and again, the survival of vanilla for example is nothing like the version of survival you want back. You are simply stuck in the past and can't handle change

the thing is that survival is the only specc in the game that change role completly (bar blood/frost dk at the start). its the only specc that went from ranged to meele, no specc have ever gone throught such drastic change as survival. i dont think many would complain if survival was still ranged, we all know gameplay changes. peoples problem is that it got turned into meele, and thats why big majority of the hunter class avoids the specc even know when its ridicously flavor of the month. Go and ask the rogue class suggesting assasination turned into a ranged specc for example, they would laugh at you.

After all, the meele component is survivals biggest downfall and the root to all the controversity, and it will continue to be so until blizzard gives us a talent to play it as ranged or rework the specc to ranged completly again.

[neescher]

survival is already controversial as it is due it was remade into a meele specc, making it into a tank specc would litterly kill the specc completly.

People said that about survival when they turned it into a melee spec. "It's going to kill survival, no one's going to play melee hunter". Look at the top m+ runs right now... Face it, people will *always* be playing strong specs. If they ever made survival a tank spec (which I personally highly doubt), I can guarantee you, if it's a good spec, it'll be played. A lot. People will always play meta specs.

[Makaloff]

I haven't been following Survival a lot over the years, but from what I understand it's really struggled as a melee spec, hasn't it? I'd much rather them solidify how Survival plays and then get a fourth spec actually dedicated to tank. Just my opinion though.

ever since legion rework the specc been sitting around 4-5% representation up until now when blizzard overbuffed them to ridicoulus levels (uncapped aoe being the big factor to this). Once DF hits survival will fall into obscurity again like it was before. its essential a dead specc as meele but blizzard wants to keep the niche specc meele so not much we can do. sad part is that MM got screwed over aswell due to the rework so the only "untouched" specc hunter have rn is BM and BM is completly garbage due to AoE cap on beast cleave.

[Kiria]

People said that about survival when they turned it into a melee spec. "It's going to kill survival, no one's going to play melee hunter". Look at the top m+ runs right now... Face it, people will *always* be playing strong specs. If they ever made survival a tank spec (which I personally highly doubt), I can guarantee you, if it's a good spec, it'll be played. A lot. People will always play meta specs.

This is where people are making 1 very simple mistake, even if the spec is good turning it into a Tank spec would make those players simply find another fotm dps spec while scaring the very few people who actually like the class atm since to another class also because people don't choose to play a DPS spec to gain the responsibility of a Tank they take DPS because it's what they're comftable with.

All in all changing a DPS spec to a Tank spec would make a vast majority of those people move to another DPS spec or quit the game entirely.

[Makaloff]

People said that about survival when they turned it into a melee spec. "It's going to kill survival, no one's going to play melee hunter". Look at the top m+ runs right now... Face it, people will *always* be playing strong specs. If they ever made survival a tank spec (which I personally highly doubt), I can guarantee you, if it's a good spec, it'll be played. A lot. People will always play meta specs.

only reason people play it right now is beacuse blizzard buffed it to the moon and back and with uncapped aoe ontop. outside of SL S3, survival been stone dead as specc, boasting around 4-5% representation since legion rework. However you do have a point in that people will play whatever is meta, but even in the past when survival was bringing really good dmg people still avoided it and survival is still less represented than BM and MM in M+ atm.

[gd8]

only reason people play it right now is beacuse blizzard buffed it to the moon and back and with uncapped aoe ontop.

Speak for yourself, I've always been a fan of the melee hunter aesthetic and playstyle. The only reason most people haven't been playing it is because it was underperforming for a long time, now that it's performing well a lot of people are playing it and enjoying it. Most people don't share your weird hang-ups about "melee hunters"

[Makaloff]

Speak for yourself, I've always been a fan of the melee hunter aesthetic and playstyle. The only reason most people haven't been playing it is because it was underperforming for a long time, now that it's performing well a lot of people are playing it and enjoying it. Most people don't share your weird hang-ups about "melee hunters"

thats your opinion, yes. however it has shown even when survival was in really good spots, barely anyone played survival. it has been sitting on consistent 4-5% since its meele rework, which is showing that many are not fan of the meele playstyle. Good for you that you enjoy it, but dont come and pretend that survival isnt extremly niche. once DF hits and all that borrowed power goes away again it will fall back to its usual numbers again.

However i do wish that blizzard could just included a talent so you could choose to be meele or ranged, or made it as a 4th specc. My biggest issue with survival is that as old MM main, i got screwed over by the survival rework thanks to them trying to cram both surv and mm into the mm tree, which doesnt work. i never said nobody is playing survival, but dont pretend that its a loved and cherised specc by many, beacuse it isnt. Only reason people play it now is due to uncapped aoe and borrowed power, even then less people play surv in M+ than BM and MM.

[Xath]

Keyword there... "If". Not to mention the fact it has to be sustained long term for you to even be remotely correct. One person switching, deciding they hate it because of the real factors affecting the number of available tanks doesn't work the way you think it will.

Oh, and in case you haven't been playing the game since oh... ever, you'd know Survival is a DPS spec for Hunters. Blizzard is not going to change it from that to tanking. There has only ever been one spec in the history of WoW that did that which was Feral for Druids and that is a legacy of the Vanilla Talent Trees where one configuration was designed for tanking and another for DPS. This is why the Guardian Spec was added to that class as a 4th spec. They would have to do that with Hunters too. Except hunters have never been designed to be general tanks ever. Just some lone exception fights like I mentioned earlier.

Besides, a hunter that knows what they are doing and has good heals can tank in BM. Had to do that literally the very first instance I ran in WoD. Healer wasn't an issue since I already had them in Discord and they knew what to do.

No a hunter can not tank M+ stop being so damn dishonest.

[Eosia]

No a hunter can not tank M+ stop being so damn dishonest.

Never said they could. But, in case you have forgotten, there are Raids and Regular dungeons too in this game. M+ isn't the only format. But luckily you have 6 tanking specs to choose from. Enjoy that.

[Xath]

Never said they could. But, in case you have forgotten, there are Raids and Regular dungeons too in this game. M+ isn't the only format. But luckily you have 6 tanking specs to choose from. Enjoy that.

The shortage being talked about is M+ there are plenty of tanks for raids with not enough raid spots. This means to get enough tanks for M+ you need to have people playing offpsecs or alts. Currently all off spec tanks except druid are melee dps in raid. Healers tend to stay healer and not swap.

This is really simple logic and for some reason you have an issue with it. Take an unused talent and make it a gladiator spec style thing for tanking that is disabled in pvp. Do this for each ranged class and there will no longer be a Tanking shortage.