Is it possible to enjoy FFXIV if I only like endgame content?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Then your FC is a unicorn.

Good thing unicorns in FF, while not common, aren't rare either. :P

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I've been in three, and it was a pretty common activity in all of them during content lulls.

Same, all 3 statics I've been in have done it.

[Zoibert the Bear]

There are major differences in how FFXIV designs its raid encounters.

• FFXIV raids are exclusively boss fights. You will never get imaginative encounters like the gunship battle, Spine of Deathwing, Dark Animus, Hans'gar and Franzok, Operator Thogar, etc.

• FFXIV fights have hard enrages on a timer, and if any player botches a mechanic once, they get one shotted and/or their damage is severely debuffed, meaning that the group decides to wipe right then and there and start over. Rather than an exciting WoW fight where the team uses their tools to manage a steadily declining situation and win the war of attrition, FFXIV progression is about doing a dance over and over again until all 8 players nail every single mechanic for 8-10 minutes.

The fabled master baiter strikes again. You always bring a smile to my face.

[Vakna]

2. You won't spend as much time raiding, and that's either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your perspective. Personally, I dislike that wow raids take weeks and weeks of progression to get over an artificial gear wall.

This just isn't true, the only time gear has ever mattered is for the ultra top end people, like the 2 guilds in the entire world competing for world first, and even then it only takes a few days of splits for them to get over a gear wall.

For everyone else in the game, any gear you get just from completing normal activities in the game is enough, the only walls that exist are skill walls and learning walls. Speaking as someone who raided in the 200-600 world rank for over 10 years, I have never in all my time raiding in World of Warcraft come up against a boss where we said "Alright, guess we need more gear".

[NineSpine]

This just isn't true, the only time gear has ever mattered is for the ultra top end people, like the 2 guilds in the entire world competing for world first, and even then it only takes a few days of splits for them to get over a gear wall.

For everyone else in the game, any gear you get just from completing normal activities in the game is enough, the only walls that exist are skill walls and learning walls. Speaking as someone who raided in the 200-600 world rank for over 10 years, I have never in all my time raiding in World of Warcraft come up against a boss where we said "Alright, guess we need more gear".

The bosses are tuned around having a certain amount of gear from previous clears, for the average player. That's just a fact, especially when you look between difficulties.

This is as compared to FF14 where you walk into a Savage raid day 1 with the gear needed to complete the raid for the average person.

This isn't an assessment of which design is better, but these are facts.

[Vakna]

The bosses are tuned around having a certain amount of gear from previous clears, for the average player. That's just a fact, especially when you look between difficulties.

This is as compared to FF14 where you walk into a Savage raid day 1 with the gear needed to complete the raid for the average person.

This isn't an assessment of which design is better, but these are facts.

I'm not saying that a certain expectation of gear doesn't exist, and I'm certainly not saying that WoW's gear expectations are lower than FF's. All I'm saying is that if you play the game, you wont ever come up against a gear wall. If you play the game in some strange manner, like level up to max level and try to clear the third raid of an expansion in your questing greens, then you're going to have a problem, but that never happens because of catchup mechanics. If you just play the game like a normal person and go into a raid, you have enough gear to clear it, no grinding or abnormal gameplay required. Whether you have the skill required to clear it with minimum gear is a different story, but that doesn't make it a gear wall. Like I said, I've been raiding at a decent level for over 10 years and we have never hit a gear wall, and we don't do any degenerate shit, we just play the game and raid. You acquire the gear you need to clear the last boss by clearing every other boss before it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm not saying that a certain expectation of gear doesn't exist, and I'm certainly not saying that WoW's gear expectations are lower than FF's. All I'm saying is that if you play the game, you wont ever come up against a gear wall. If you play the game in some strange manner, like level up to max level and try to clear the third raid of an expansion in your questing greens, then you're going to have a problem, but that never happens because of catchup mechanics. If you just play the game like a normal person and go into a raid, you have enough gear to clear it, no grinding or abnormal gameplay required. Whether you have the skill required to clear it with minimum gear is a different story, but that doesn't make it a gear wall. Like I said, I've been raiding at a decent level for over 10 years and we have never hit a gear wall, and we don't do any degenerate shit, we just play the game and raid. You acquire the gear you need to clear the last boss by clearing every other boss before it.

And on a related topic, I'm super glad that the XIV team did away with most of the randomness in gearing. Gear coffers are a godsend compared to the randomized loot that existed until Stormblood. It doesn't trigger that skinner box dopamine rush that some might get from that one thing they wanted finally dropping, but it's more consistent and overall less frustrating.

For some people, gear progression is really important to them, and the ease at which one attains BiS in XIV could be a turn off. In XIV, there's more emphasis on raiding for the sake of raiding, and less emphasis on the reward for doing so. Not that there is no emphasis. After all, you don't need to even kill the final boss of a tier to have what is (effectively) the highest item level you can obtain, but you also will be lacking 1 weapon power from the weapon, and potentially the chest piece if that's your BiS.

And as stated, this isn't saying one is better than the other, it's for the OP's benefit as a frame of reference. In FFXIV, you get your gear crafted day 1 of the new tier drop and you have all the tools you need to succeed to kill the last boss.

[Yarathir]

Again, this is disingenuous, as organized groups rarely if ever do this content ilvl-synced. I've never heard of an FC doing this "for funsies" nor have I ever seen a PF group doing it. Most do it unsynced if they need to farm some currency or piece they want out of it.

How is it disingenuous? I'm not saying it's done. I'm saying the option is there. Whether or not people do it is immaterial.

[Cthulhu 2020]

How is it disingenuous? I'm not saying it's done. I'm saying the option is there. Whether or not people do it is immaterial.

Best take, honestly. And if someone -wants- to do it, there are discords dedicated to it.

A relatively small portion of the player base does Baldesian Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae Savage, but there are discords dedicated to it with very dedicated players. If you WANT to do something, if you WANT to raid old content, or content people don't often do, there are tools for finding like minded people.

[NineSpine]

I'm not saying that a certain expectation of gear doesn't exist, and I'm certainly not saying that WoW's gear expectations are lower than FF's. All I'm saying is that if you play the game, you wont ever come up against a gear wall. If you play the game in some strange manner, like level up to max level and try to clear the third raid of an expansion in your questing greens, then you're going to have a problem, but that never happens because of catchup mechanics. If you just play the game like a normal person and go into a raid, you have enough gear to clear it, no grinding or abnormal gameplay required. Whether you have the skill required to clear it with minimum gear is a different story, but that doesn't make it a gear wall. Like I said, I've been raiding at a decent level for over 10 years and we have never hit a gear wall, and we don't do any degenerate shit, we just play the game and raid. You acquire the gear you need to clear the last boss by clearing every other boss before it.

It is objectively false that the average raider goes into the raid day 1 with the gear needed to clear a mythic raid.

[Thoriangun]

An expansion will have the following:

12 normal/savage raid bosses.
12-15 Alliance raid bosses.
7-9 Trial bosses.
1-2 Ultimate raids.

That's about 35 bosses per expansion, completely comparable with WoW.

You have a low bar I swear and this is the problem I have with FF14 players.

LFR is meh, and the gear it drops is not an upgrade actually, its below current tier that releases before it so stop lieing there.

Trial bosses come out once every 3 month and are done in a single day without trying and actually drop catch up gear again.

Only the savages are really relevant but thats 4 bosses EVERY 6-8 months, not 3, ITS 6-8 months, this is what so many FF14 players never admit to or tell people.

Ultimate's, we have 1 so far in Endwalker but guess what, SHB was meant to have 2 but only had 1 so we can only hope they actually add the 2nd one this expansion.

[NineSpine]

You have a low bar I swear and this is the problem I have with FF14 players.

LFR is meh, and the gear it drops is not an upgrade actually, its below current tier that releases before it so stop lieing there.

It's a good thing that FF14 doesn't have LFR.

Trial bosses come out once every 3 month and are done in a single day without trying and actually drop catch up gear again.

Don't care. The fights are fun and that's what I care about.

Only the savages are really relevant but thats 4 bosses EVERY 6-8 months, not 3, ITS 6-8 months, this is what so many FF14 players never admit to or tell people.

That has been stated multiple times in this thread already. Whatever is fun is relevant to me, but I play video games to have fun not to indulge a mental disorder where I wrap my entire ego around my gear score in a video game.

Ultimate's, we have 1 so far in Endwalker but guess what, SHB was meant to have 2 but only had 1 so we can only hope they actually add the 2nd one this expansion.

They already told us what patch the next one is coming in.

[Ghost of Cow]

Could ya maybe dial it back a bit on the "mental illness" labels?

[NineSpine]

Could ya maybe dial it back a bit on the "mental illness" labels?

I will, apologies.

[Thoriangun]

[QUOTE]

It's a good thing that FF14 doesn't have LFR.

Alliance raids are LFR, don't kid your self

Don't care. The fights are fun and that's what I care about.

And you are the problem

That has been stated multiple times in this thread already. Whatever is fun is relevant to me, but I play video games to have fun not to indulge a mental disorder where I wrap my entire ego around my gear score in a video game.

Apparently calling out SE and players like you is a mental disorder, well done with that coping.

4 bosses in 6-8 months is a negative and especially as a lot of FF players bitch about Wow having long patch cycles to which it does but so does the relevant content in FF14 but the ratio is loads worse.

They already told us what patch the next one is coming in.

They did that before and look how that turned out, you need to stop being in denial.

[NineSpine]

Alliance raids are LFR, don't kid your self

They're not. LFR is a difficulty setting. Alliance raids are a type of content. But I don't expect coordination with reality to be a strong point for folks like you.

And you are the problem

Yes, it is a "problem" to concern myself with fun... in a video game.

Apparently calling out SE and players like you is a mental disorder, well done with that coping.

4 bosses in 6-8 months is a negative and especially as a lot of FF players bitch about Wow having long patch cycles to which it does but so does the relevant content in FF14 but the ratio is loads worse.

It's not four bosses. It's four savage/normal bosses, 4-5 alliance raid bosses, 2-3 trial bosses, and potentially an ultimate boss.

They did that before and look how that turned out, you need to stop being in denial.

They never gave a patch number for the second ultimate raid in Shadowbringers.

[Ghost of Cow]

Alliance raids are LFR, don't kid your self

I suppose there's a healthy "it depends" to be had here.

Crystal Tower is 100% LFR tier or worse now, but Ivalice will straight up bop groups who don't do mechanics. (Sorry, Ivalice is actually my most recent Alliance raid reference point, believe it or not!)

Then again, some LFR fights have been that way, too.

Of course none of it is exactly a big deal, so arguing over which content is more serious seems pointless.

They did that before and look how that turned out, you need to stop being in denial.

Eh, lets not declare the next ultimate to be vaporware before we have a reason to.

[Yarathir]

Backseat ultimate players see Square not release one ultimate in time and proclaim the sky is falling and Square is all liars and swindlers forever.

[NineSpine]

I suppose there's a healthy "it depends" to be had here.

Crystal Tower is 100% LFR tier or worse now, but Ivalice will straight up bop groups who don't do mechanics. (Sorry, Ivalice is actually my most recent Alliance raid reference point, believe it or not!)

Then again, some LFR fights have been that way, too.

Of course none of it is exactly a big deal, so arguing over which content is more serious seems pointless.



Eh, lets not declare the next ultimate to be vaporware before we have a reason to.

The Nier raids are amazing and the new one is amazing as wel.

[Yarathir]

The Nier raids are amazing and the new one is amazing as wel.

Also let's not ignore that it's all content separate from the savage raids. It would only be remotely similar to LFR if it was Pandaemonium N but easier and for more players.

[NineSpine]

Also let's not ignore that it's all content separate from the savage raids. It would only be remotely similar to LFR if it was Pandaemonium N but easier and for more players.

All that is happening is we are having fun and that fact is getting under the skin of pathetic people who build their whole identity around doing hard content in a cartoon Video game about cow ladies in it. It drives them absolutely insane that we are having fun, because they aren’t so they are relying on their sense of superiority to make up for it (and it doesn’t).