Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Eosia]

Every time somebody makes some asinine comment like this a kitten gets killed.

Please don't kill kittens.

That only happens when people make posts that reek of entitlement...

[Ielenia]

Considering that Blizzard has called Dracthyr "dragons" on multiple occasions,

All demonstrated to likely be PR speech and yet in the one video where they say things as they are, because it's the deep-dive, they specifically mention the dracthyr are hybrids of dragons and non-dragons.

You mean just like the Dracthyr visage forms that are going to use elven and human attributes?

All dracthyr males will use the blood elf model. All female dracthyr will use the human model.

I do believe the point here is that players will be able to look like elf-human hybrids that have dragon horns protruding out of their bodies

You would be wrong. Because there is no "human-elf hybrids" here. All males use the blood elf male form, all females use the human female form.

Also: oh, hey, you do know the meaning of the word 'hybrid'! You finally learned!

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Because calling a race or a class “dragon” is lame.

"Everyone wants to play as dragons! But no one wants to be called a dragon!" - Teriz 2022

Can't you see the inanity of what you just posted? When people want to play as a dragon they want to be called a dragon!

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Didn't they briefly show a new model for Kalegos? I need to check as I'm sure they did.

Yes, Yes they have
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/upl...6c4eb986d5.jpg

It appears he like Wrathion is using the BElf male pose rigging, so it's being more canonalised.

It still look like the human male body model and rig, though.

[Teriz]

All demonstrated to likely be PR speech and yet in the one video where they say things as they are, because it's the deep-dive, they specifically mention the dracthyr are hybrids of dragons and non-dragons.

Link to where Blizzard specifically says that Dracthyr are non-dragons.

All dracthyr males will use the blood elf model. All female dracthyr will use the human model.

And both will use features found in both humans and elves, along with some draconic features like horns and scales. Just like the visage form of the aspects and dragonflights.

You would be wrong. Because there is no "human-elf hybrids" here. All males use the blood elf male form, all females use the human female form.

Yet the females have elven pointy ears among other elven qualities.

[Arikara]

Because calling a race or a class “dragon” is lame, and lacks the imagination or pizazz for a racial or class name. Which is why you see elaborate names for dragon races in all MMOs.

Nonsense. Quit making things up and thinking your ideas are universally true.

I can individually name a whole host of people who would be hyped for that.

[DeltrusDisc]

The current approach just seems the worst of both worlds. We get these goofy-looking lizard-people, who aren't even a REAL race (almost zero transmog options), have NO passing connection in the game's lore, and apparently they fucking STILL have to go into Visage form to use mounts.

With so many restrictions in place, why not just make them LOOK like proper dragons -- just scaled-down to be comparable size to Druid forms, or Worgen's Running Wild?

For one, you don't then need to create a bunch of bullshit lore about WHY these humanoid-dragon-abominations exist, you can simply say "hey, Deathwing experimented with creating a "Prismatic Dragonflight", they're relatively young or just very small compared to other dragons". Boom, all bases covered.

And since the whole thing about the Evoker is that it's SUPPOSED to be a "playable dragon" class, well, wouldn't it be a whole lot cooler if they actually LOOKED the part? Instead of just looking like argonians from Elder Scrolls?

I would think making this shift would be a total slam-dunk for Blizzard. They still get to avoid adding all of the "usual" shit that genuinely new races need (custom-fit armor and transmogs, all sorts of animations, obvious clipping issues abound), and as a FANTASY, there's no denying that being able to "play as a dragon" -- again, even if physically smaller -- would be pretty freaking sick.

And personally? I'd let players choose any race (or at least those native to Azeroth) to use as a "Visage" form. Even if they don't get the "Dracthyr customization options", I personally think they kind of look like shit anyways. The horns are kind of cool, but I'd happily sacrifice them to not be stuck as a human or blood elf (nothing against those two options, but I think a Dark Iron or a Nightborne might better suit the sort of "look" I would gravitate towards).

Also... If you make them ACTUAL, smaller dragons, you can literally just call them "Dragons". I think that sounds way, way, WAY cooler than "Dracthyr". I'm also not particularly keen on "Evoker" (I initially thought it was Invoker, which I thought sounded cooler), but that's whatever.

Don't like your idea or Blizzard's.

Small dragons would be lame, even if they look good.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What we wanted:
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...yzv8lrNihxhH98

What we got:

it might just be that DOS2 is one of my favorite game's but what we got is dead on for what id want baring the lack of lankyer woman lizards.

[Teriz]

Nonsense. Quit making things up and thinking your ideas are universally true.

I can individually name a whole host of people who would be hyped for that.

Blizzard would never create a race or class called “Dragon”. That’s the point.

[Ielenia]

Link to where Blizzard specifically says that Dracthyr are non-dragons.

I've already pointed that out: the deep-dive video when they specifically say that the dracthyr are hybrids of dragon and non-dragon essences.

And by the very definition of the word, a hybrid is not the same as its constituents when both constituents are of different types.

And both will use features found in both humans and elves, along with some draconic features like horns and scales. Just like the visage form of the aspects and dragonflights.

Yet the females have elven pointy ears among other elven qualities.

And yet you still can't be Alexstrasza as a female dracthyr, the one character you say the class was based on, and you can't be Wrathion or Kalecgos, either, as a male dracthyr.

Give it up, Teriz. You lost all credibility when it was revealed you took this image, an artwork of an OC that is not even a D&D character, and dishonestly acted as that image somehow represented the D&D dragonborn race as a whole.

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Blizzard would never create a race or class called “Dragon”. That’s the point.

Oh? Do you work for Blizzard? Do you participate in their meetings? Do you--

No, you don't.

You're just spewing your own bullshit as facts, like you always do.

[Teriz]

I've already pointed that out: the deep-dive video when they specifically say that the dracthyr are hybrids of dragon and non-dragon essences. And by the very definition of the word, a hybrid is not the same as its constituents when both constituents are of different types.

In other words, Blizzard NEVER specifically said that Dracthyr are non-dragons, and have in fact stated thar dracthyr are dragons on multiple occasions, and we even have an example of a dragon illustration showing a dracthyr-like creature.

Let me know when you find a single example of Blizzard saying that Dracthyr are not dragons, then this conversation can continue.

And yet you still can't be Alexstrasza as a female dracthyr, the one character you say the class was based on, and you can't be Wrathion or Kalecgos, either, as a male dracthyr.

Why can’t you? You can be a character with elven and human features along with horns just like she has.

Give it up, Teriz. You lost all credibility when it was revealed you took this image, an artwork of an OC that is not even a D&D character, and dishonestly acted as that image somehow represented the D&D dragonborn race as a whole.

Don’t D&D players typically draw their own characters when they create them?

[Ielenia]

In other words, Blizzard NEVER specifically said that Dracthyr are non-dragons, and have in fact stated thar dracthyr are dragons on multiple occasions, and we even have an example of a dragon illustration showing a dracthyr-like creature.

Let me know when you find a single example of Blizzard saying that Dracthyr are not dragons, then this conversation can continue.

The irony is palpable.

You just (once again) said essentially "nu-uh" to both forms of evidence. It's a typical tactic from you.

Why can’t you? You can be a character with elven and human features along with horns just like she has.

Stop being dishonest. You can't pick and choose if you have elven or human features. Alexstrasza's visage uses the blood elf female model and rig, whereas the female dracthyr uses the human female model and rig. Wrathion uses the human male model and Kalecgos uses the human male model and rig, whereas the male dracthyr uses the blood elf model and rig.

Don’t D&D players typically draw their own characters when they create them?

And you still refuse to accept your errors. Artists tag their art in websites such as DeviantArt and Pixiv. And there is zero "D&D" or even "RPG" tags on that image. Nor its description has anything about D&D or RPG.

And even if it was an artwork of a D&D character, you'd still be in the wrong here because you used that imaged to heavily imply that is how the D&D dragonborn race looks like, and not, you know, this:

That's the official image for the dragonborn race.

You really just googled "anthro dragon fanart" and grabbed the most ridiculous example you could find, didn't you?

[Teriz]

The irony is palpable.

Still waiting......

Stop being dishonest. You can't pick and choose if you have elven or human features. Alexstrasza's visage uses the blood elf female model and rig, whereas the female dracthyr uses the human female model and rig. Wrathion uses the human male model and Kalecgos uses the human male model and rig, whereas the male dracthyr uses the blood elf model and rig.

You're talking about rigs, I'm talking about features. The visage form is being billed as having insane levels of customization features. A human female rig with pointy ears, red eyes, red hair, and dragon horns can totally match this;



Which the Visage forms will have.

And you still refuse to accept your errors. Artists tag their art in websites such as DeviantArt and Pixiv. And there is zero "D&D" or even "RPG" tags on that image. Nor its description has anything about D&D or RPG.

Great. Again, what's your point in bringing up a conversation from almost half a year ago that has nothing to do with this topic?

[Arikara]

Blizzard would never create a race or class called “Dragon”. That’s the point.

Nonsense. Quit making things up and thinking your ideas are universally true.

[Ielenia]

Still waiting......

For what? Waiting for me to bring the evidence you'll again completely ignore and again claim I'm not presenting evidence?

You're talking about rigs, I'm talking about features. The visage form is being billed as having insane levels of customization features. A human female rig with pointy ears, red eyes, red hair, and dragon horns can totally match this;

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...siJn8&usqp=CAU

Which the Visage forms will have.

So the fact the two look like completely different races matters none to you? Seems fishy to me, but on-brand with you. So you're saying that if the horde female visage was an orc, you'd still claim you can look like Alexstrasza because of horns and scales? Scales, mind you, that Alexstrasza doesn't have, AFAIK.

Great. Again, what's your point in bringing up a conversation from almost half a year ago that has nothing to do with this topic?

It goes to show your skewed view of what a dragon is, and how dishonest you can be in a conversation, considering you completely misrepresented the D&D race and their players.

[Teriz]

For what?

You know what.

So the fact the two look like completely different races matters none to you? Seems fishy to me, but on-brand with you. So you're saying that if the horde female visage was an orc, you'd still claim you can look like Alexstrasza because of horns and scales? Scales, mind you, that Alexstrasza doesn't have, AFAIK.

Orcs don't look like humans. Elves look like slimmer humans with pointy ears. We have illustrated examples of Alexstraza looking slim and more full-figured. Again, it is a look that the Dracthyr visage form can easily accomplish.

It goes to show your skewed view of what a dragon is, and how dishonest you can be in a conversation, considering you completely misrepresented the D&D race and their players.

So in other words it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

Got it.

[Ielenia]

You know what.

Of course I do. I even detailed the exact "what" in the rest of that exact same paragraph that you erased:

For what? Waiting for me to bring the evidence you'll again completely ignore and again claim I'm not presenting evidence?

Orcs don't look like humans.

And blood elves are distinct from humans. Looking at one from afar you can still distinguish them from blood elves. What you're talking about is pretend. You can pretend that you look like Alexstrasza, if you ignore everything that makes you look not like her. Oh, I get it now. That's what you do: ignore everything that doesn't match your narrative.

So in other words it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

It has everything to do with this conversation, especially since you you inanely stated, in this very thread, that creating a playable race named "dragon" is dumb:

Because calling a race or a class “dragon” is lame, and lacks the imagination or pizazz for a racial or class name.

And in that very post you still get things wrong, because Blizzard isn't changing the name of existing races when making them playable. After all, Worgen were called 'worgen' long before they were made playable. Same with goblins. Also, why didn't Blizzard "use their imagination and pizazz" to give the goblin race a cool name too?

[Teriz]

Of course I do. I even detailed the exact "what" in the rest of that exact same paragraph that you erased:

And you have yet to produce what I asked for. I'm not interested in your opinion. I want a direct statement from Blizzard saying that Dracthyr are not dragons. If you don't have that, you have no argument.

And blood elves are distinct from humans. Looking at one from afar you can still distinguish them from blood elves. What you're talking about is pretend. You can pretend that you look like Alexstrasza, if you ignore everything that makes you look not like her. Oh, I get it now. That's what you do: ignore everything that doesn't match your narrative.

Except Alexstraza is not a Blood Elf. She's a dragon masquerading as a mortal with Elven, human, and draconic features. Elves don't have massive dragon horns for example.

It has everything to do with this conversation, especially since you you inanely stated, in this very thread, that creating a playable race named "dragon" is dumb:

And it is dumb, which is why Blizzard didn't name their playable dragon race or class "dragon". It's also why you'd be hard pressed to find a race or class called "dragon" in pretty much any RPG.

Let me know when you find that Blizzard quote.

[Lady Atia]

The irony is palpable.




Stop being dishonest. You can't pick and choose if you have elven or human features. Alexstrasza's visage uses the blood elf female model and rig, whereas the female dracthyr uses the human female model and rig. Wrathion uses the human male model and Kalecgos uses the human male model and rig, whereas the male dracthyr uses the blood elf model and rig.


And you still refuse to accept your errors. Artists tag their art in websites such as DeviantArt and Pixiv. And there is zero "D&D" or even "RPG" tags on that image. Nor its description has anything about D&D or RPG.

And even if it was an artwork of a D&D character, you'd still be in the wrong here because you used that imaged to heavily imply that is how the D&D dragonborn race looks like, and not, you know, this:

That's the official image for the dragonborn race.

You really just googled "anthro dragon fanart" and grabbed the most ridiculous example you could find, didn't you?

Again, Wrathion and Dragonflight Kalec are using a blood elf rig. They don't use the human model. How often do we have to repeat ourself 'till you get it? Alextrasza in HOTS is arguably more like a human than a bloodelf too. And both yours and Teriz' D&D dragonborn artworks look like shit. Dracthyr are 1000000000000000 times cuter and better than these abominations. Yours looks literally like a lizardmen instead of a dragon.

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In comparison, here's a fanart by flippingchicken:

[Auburst]

it might just be that DOS2 is one of my favorite game's but what we got is dead on for what id want baring the lack of lankyer woman lizards.

DOS 2 lizards have better body proportions and look overall sturdier than Soythyr Dragons they are not tho.

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Didn't they briefly show a new model for Kalegos? I need to check as I'm sure they did.

Yes, Yes they have


It appears he like Wrathion is using the BElf male pose rigging, so it's being more canonalised.

Nah. It's just a different idle standing option.

[qwerty123456]

What they should have done is get rid of the ridiculous troll doll human forms and let every race be a Dracthyr. On the character create screen just have a message when hovering over the evoker class that the race you are choosing isn't the actual race but the visage form you are picking and that the actual race is Dracthyr.

[Teriz]

What they should have done is get rid of the ridiculous troll doll human forms and let every race be a Dracthyr. On the character create screen just have a message when hovering over the evoker class that the race you are choosing isn't the actual race but the visage form you are picking and that the actual race is Dracthyr.

The problem is that Bluzzard would have been called lazy for doing that, and the vast majority of players would have just chosen human or elf anyway.

We haven’t seen the full customization options of the visage forms yet. I’d hold off judgement until we do.