What is there for casuals?

[ceall]

In short: EVERYTHING.

In long: everything really. Nothing stops "casuals" from doing anything but cutting edge tier content but themselves.

Quoting myself for context.

- - - Updated - - -

Very little - Blizz still has 0 clue as to how to add fun systems to the game that casuals can interact with. Is there casual content? Yes, but it's largely solo and doesn't inspire player-emergent behavior. For example, FF14 has:

-Fashion challenge
-Group events at the saucer
-Housing
-Hunts
-Eureka / Bozja
-Running old content has more group incentives (and is easier and faster to queue up for)
-Lots more I'm forgetting

Wow has...world quests? Hovering in ZM waiting for rares to spawn (many of which can be solo'd and the ones that can't have 0 mechanics)? Running old raids on a weekly lockout solo with a glazed look on my eyes?

See the first quote

[Dorothyjean]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

The entire game...? Who is this "we" also. I'm a heroic raider, 6 days a week with 3 guilds and could care less what the "hardcore" players do on Mythic. Have fun, play the game, challenge yourself a little bit.

[loras]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

Well it depends on what you consider casual.
You can casually do m+ up to and including the very best gear.
Doesn't take particular skill, takes some time (but hey, it's an MMO) and it doesn't take a mangled schedule or overinvestment in digital social structures like i.e. arena partners or guilds in general.

So, yeah, that.
Not the most fun part i agree, but it's something that can help you jumpstart your way into pugging raids on any level and doing pvp without too much of a disadvantage, both in the overworld and in instanced content.

Otherwise the dragonriding system seems to be geared towards casuals to some extent, i myself have quite high hopes for it as it may allow me to enjoy the "world" aspect of WoW more, especially if they tie it into rewarding activities or make it something semi-standalone like pet battles.

Additionally i expect them to have some iteration of solo content as well, but not have it at the front and centre like in SL. Visions also weren't an expansion-defining feature after all, yet they were a far superior iteration of solo content (though its handcrafted-ness did reduce its longevity it also meant that its quality vastly outdid that of most of Torghast, generated content just doesn't really work with a genuine rpg - mindless dungeoncrawling is simply another genre).

[Revamp Man]

Well I think that's a small price to pay for a great game.

You could even argue that it encouraged players to get into more challenging content, which isn't a bad thing in my opinion.

Also the very same thing still happens today with the Vault awarding easy Mythic ilvl loot, the only difference is it takes slightly longer and is a purely timegated way to gear.

I think that boosting players to a point where they get no rewards from the content that is appropriate for their skill while being unprepared for the content that gives rewards is a bad design. It also didn't encourage players to do harder content because it actually exists in the current game.

There were threads here that were complaining about how Cypher gear wasn't strong enough/too strong

- - - Updated - - -

I really need to point out that WoD was no paradise die hardcore players at all. Only Raidlogging is no fun for us either.
In fact, the last 3 expansion delivered much more Casual content than hatdcore content as well, with the exception of m+ and the mage tower.
M+ literally saved all those expansions for the hardcore crowd, but it is literally one single system. It's cool, it's fun, please continue it, but the impression that the game is designed around hardcore players of very wrong.

This
WoD was a bad expansion with good raids but even raiders like to do other stuff

[enigma77]

I think that boosting players to a point where they get no rewards from the content that is appropriate for their skill while being unprepared for the content that gives rewards is a bad design. It also didn't encourage players to do harder content because it actually exists in the current game.

There were threads here that were complaining about how Cypher gear wasn't strong enough/too strong

I can see why you feel that way, but I think that overall Titanforging still made the game a whole lot better. It's nice being able even after 3 or 4 months into a patch to still be able to get upgrades and have real tangible character progression that is not dictated purely by Blizzard's timegating. Especially since Blizzard has decided that patches now last 7 months, instead of 4 or 5 like in Legion and BFA.

I loved doing m+ in Legion and having the chance to get big upgrades. It kept things exciting.

Right now in Shadowlands I stopped doing M+ completely weeks ago. I don't really need anything anymore and there is no chance that any loot can titanforge to a high ilvl so that it'd actually be useful. The game is basically telling me to quit. There's no ap either, so my character progression has simply come to a full stop. That's terrible game design in my opinion. I love playing my character but if I can't get him any stronger, whelp time to quit, after all I've done the dungeons hundreds of times, what's fun even after all this time is getting loot, making my guy stronger and that's exactly what I can't do.

I'm really not into playing alts much, I have one alt with comparable ilvl to my main and even this alt can literally get nothing out of M+ (the actual dungeons) anymore, only the Weekly Vault can still give me an upgrade. So the game has turned M+ into a chore/checklist and the game itself is a waiting game.

It's just wrong and I really hope that there will be some kind of progression system in Dragonflight that scratches that itch. It doesn't exactly have to be TF/AP but SOMETHING. Something that keeps things exciting and fresh even after months, something that allows me to keep making my guy stronger by actually playing the game, rather than waiting for the weekly reset. In my opinion Shadowlands would have been 5 times better if they had simply kept TF/AP.

Also and forgive me for making this post long, but I really feel that the problems with TF/AP were mostly totally fixable, removing them outright was, I think, a big mistake and just unnecessary. Valor can and should serve to make up for terrible rng and making AP accountwide from day 1 solves the issue with playing multiple specs/characters.

[Caerrona]

I find the example you've given a bit disingenuous, for the past few expansions if you wanted to get CE you certainly couldn't only raidlog, there is research to do on encounters/logs/your class and weekly character maintenance/one and done grinds you had to attend to, also even middle of the pack CE guilds will want a high attendance which I just wouldn't call that a casual playstyle myself.

Someone who reliably get's CE is a "invested" player to me, doesn't mean you have to go full no-life/neckbeard ofc, the majority of my older guildmates didn't (except you're the raidlead, then you need more time for sure.)

But I guess this very discussion just shows that a definition from the OP would be nice.

You didn't need to sit in the maw for 2 hours a day to get CE 6 months into the tier aka playing casually.

You didn't need to sit in korthia for 2 hours a day to get CE 6 months into the tier aka playing casually.

You didn't need to spend the 10 minutes a day in ZM to get CE 6 months into the tier aka playing casually.

Doing research on your class doesn't make you "hardcore". being shit at the game doesn't make you a casual.

[Necromantic]

Yeah I'm well aware of the garbage that sifts through here and the official forums and I'm probably going to get banned (yet again) for upsetting the fragile egos of players who get out dpsed by healers... but it's reality, they are bad players, not casuals.

To be fair, there are far more bad players than good players in any game. There probably are some outlier cases of a healer doing more DPS than a... DPS. Most of the cases where I saw that happening were raiding healers who join low level content so they can brag about their performance over people who are trying to begin gearing. Though this happens in many MMOs.

Casual and hardcore have never been clearly defined and are too ambiguous. It's all in how you view yourself. Some are modest about it, some are dishonest about it. That' just human nature and nothing we can change. But it really doesn't matter because being one or the other is not going to be a prerequisite for admission to anything.

[Tentim]

To be fair, there are far more bad players than good players in any game. There probably are some outlier cases of a healer doing more DPS than a... DPS. Most of the cases where I saw that happening were raiding healers who join low level content so they can brag about their performance over people who are trying to begin gearing. Though this happens in many MMOs.

Casual and hardcore have never been clearly defined and are too ambiguous. It's all in how you view yourself. Some are modest about it, some are dishonest about it. That' just human nature and nothing we can change. But it really doesn't matter because being one or the other is not going to be a prerequisite for admission to anything.

I mean I can get the argument that mythics raiding can be closed off to casual players if you can't have a fixed schedule. Sure you can do it casually but outside of that I would agree with you.

[Delever]

The same thing casuals have had for 18 years. Raids/dungeons/pvp.

Casual =/= bad
Casual =/= solo player

this... so much this

[Yriel]

Something I was wondering recently. Assuming theres no new big features to be announced.... what is there for casual players in Dragonflight? It, as of now, just looks like another WoD-esque: We only care about what hardcore players do. But at least WoD had the Garrison which, while kinda shit, was at least something that all players could take part in.

After the initial leveling? Nothing.
So do what the rest of us does and quit WoW. They don't care about you.

To answer the OP, new feature wise - Dragon Riding.

How is that even considered content? Theres nothing to do, it's a mode of transportation. No one logs in and says "What's there to do today? Ah, two hours of drangonriding!".
And if anything it's probably more for the raiders and M+ because you can bet all good looking mods and skins will only drop there.

[Slybak]

The only meaningful distinction between "casual" and "hardcore" is the time you spend playing the game.

For a while I think the median weekly playtime was somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-20 hours a week, and I think its fair to say that the casual player base is going cap out within that range, because anything above that and you're getting into a time investment that's more than half a full time job.

Ironically this means that for a casual player a lot of the "easy" and solo content like dailies can severely cut into your time budget if you want to keep up with them, leaving not much time for more challenging stuff.

[Cheezits]

Very little - Blizz still has 0 clue as to how to add fun systems to the game that casuals can interact with. Is there casual content? Yes, but it's largely solo and doesn't inspire player-emergent behavior. For example, FF14 has:

-Fashion challenge
-Group events at the saucer
-Housing
-Hunts
-Eureka / Bozja

-Running old content has more group incentives (and is easier and faster to queue up for)
-Lots more I'm forgetting

Wow has...world quests? Hovering in ZM waiting for rares to spawn (many of which can be solo'd and the ones that can't have 0 mechanics)? Running old raids on a weekly lockout solo with a glazed look on my eyes?

Can someone who plays XIV explain what these are? Because Hunts just sounds like a World Quest from what I read up.

Also the real topic of the thread is: what is there in DF that isn't instanced group content? The answer is we don't know because they haven't told us yet, but have implied that overworld content may be getting changed up.

[Santandame]

After the initial leveling? Nothing.
So do what the rest of us does and quit WoW. They don't care about you.


How is that even considered content? Theres nothing to do, it's a mode of transportation. No one logs in and says "What's there to do today? Ah, two hours of drangonriding!".
And if anything it's probably more for the raiders and M+ because you can bet all good looking mods and skins will only drop there.

You're preaching to the choir, I agree.

Dragonflight as it stands, looks abysmal.

[GreenJesus]

Everyone has a different definition of "casual," but for my part... I find that the less the game demands of my time, the more time I actually spend in the game.

Yep. If I can just queue for arena or hop in to mythic+ after getting home from work without having to spend 1.5 hours on choreghast/world quests before im allowed to then im more willing to stay subbed to the game and log in.

[Skildar]

Can someone who plays XIV explain what these are? Because Hunts just sounds like a World Quest from what I read up.

Also the real topic of the thread is: what is there in DF that isn't instanced group content? The answer is we don't know because they haven't told us yet, but have implied that overworld content may be getting changed up.

most of what's written in their list exist in wow as darkmoon fair, achievments and weekly events.
Hunts are basically achievments that give you exp.
The only thing missing in wow is housing and the one in FFxiv is aweful. You don't feel like you have your own place in the world and it's visually a bad version of what the sims deliver.
I really wish for housing to be a part of wow someday but not like it's done there plz

[Alvito]

Throgast for example was initially to hard so they nerfed it and then it was to easy and no one wanted to play it.

The Maw was a huge miss for most, all components. For the people that hate visions of N'Zoth it was the same system again forced on players. People stopped doing it because there is no reason to do it now. You can get the game play items other ways. I would argue no form of it was ever fun or compelling game design/play. So now the only reason I can see going there for are mission table followers or a few legendary recipes, some for items nobody would ever want or make. The stuff to the right where you would keep climbing levels and would unlock the mount became obsolete when all mounts were unlocked in the zone and even more so once the zone became a shitty after thought as patches moved away from there.

In regards to what casuals can do, the same things they can always do. Quests, dungeons, pet stuff, rares or any other thing that seems to scratch that itch for players will still be around.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone has a different definition of "casual," but for my part... I find that the less the game demands of my time, the more time I actually spend in the game.

Agreed 100%. I'm not sure how they look at there own metrics or what keeps them from that a ha moment of realizing that. If all one can do is pixel chores or part of a thing they will never finish, they often don't bother.

[Flaks]

Like whole game is crafted atm for casual playin :P Maybe except ultra high m+ keys and myth raid before nerfs :P Housing would be nice idea for casual but its pretty daubtful they will ever add this or in near future.

Apparently a game in which if you don't have a dedicated group of friends and all you see listed are 10+ keys or 2+ keys waiting for ilvl 260 geared folks is geared for casual players.

WoW forums have always been an echo chamber of people that play the game A LOT and who assume anyone who plays less than them is bad, anyone who plays as much as them is casual and anyone who plays more is elitist/hardcore.

BfA was PERFECT for me and I would say I was more hardcore during that expansion than ever before or since. I was not a cutting edge raider and had never gotten aotc legit prior to it. Yet gearing was so smooth and easy by 8.2 I could easily just do warmode weeklies, casual bgs and a mythic +1 or 2 and get geared enough for stepping foot into heroic raiding. It just took quite a bit longer. At no point did I do more than 1-2 islands each month. At no point did I feel I HAD to login weekly or even monthly to play catchup. The patch cadence was perfect for me. And eventually in the last patch, I got a personal solo challenge with visions that ALSO gave heroic raid level gear which again allowed me to catch up and get into Ny'alotha without ever having to climb the ridiculous ladder of mythic +, spam rated bgs or arenas or work my way through normal raiding to get into heroic raiding.

[Caerrona]

Apparently a game in which if you don't have a dedicated group of friends and all you see listed are 10+ keys or 2+ keys waiting for ilvl 260 geared folks is geared for casual players.

WoW forums have always been an echo chamber of people that play the game A LOT and who assume anyone who plays less than them is bad, anyone who plays as much as them is casual and anyone who plays more is elitist/hardcore.

BfA was PERFECT for me and I would say I was more hardcore during that expansion than ever before or since. I was not a cutting edge raider and had never gotten aotc legit prior to it. Yet gearing was so smooth and easy by 8.2 I could easily just do warmode weeklies, casual bgs and a mythic +1 or 2 and get geared enough for stepping foot into heroic raiding. It just took quite a bit longer. At no point did I do more than 1-2 islands each month. At no point did I feel I HAD to login weekly or even monthly to play catchup. The patch cadence was perfect for me. And eventually in the last patch, I got a personal solo challenge with visions that ALSO gave heroic raid level gear which again allowed me to catch up and get into Ny'alotha without ever having to climb the ridiculous ladder of mythic +, spam rated bgs or arenas or work my way through normal raiding to get into heroic raiding.

What a dumpster post lol

Of course you didn't need to log in weekly if all you did was bgs and +2s and get aotc way late into the tier.

Just like shadowlands and just like every xpac before it.

[Rusken]

I'm not seeing anything being mentioned that wasnt also available for WoD which was a "raid or nothing" expansion.

That was kinda the question I was asking here. WoD is poster child for "There was nothing to do if you didnt raid so people quit" expansion and this one, thus far, seems to just be WoD with mythic+ and no new big expansion feature.

Curious what you actually want as "casual content"? Crafting is getting a massive overhaul to the point that it's basically its own endgame, you still have all the old raids to solo and all the new mounts and transmogs to farm for. What else do you need?

[Mysterymask]

I mean casuals do what casuals always did

Dungeons, Raids, M+, World Quests, PVP, just you know now as hardcore as the ones who are progressing

Casual doesn't time a +15 oh well take a shot. Oh they cleared Normal at the end of the patch cycle? fuck yeah we did it dudes!


no this thread is "What does a person who doesn't like to play World of Warcraft do in this expansion of World of Warcraft"