KSM is too easy.

[b1gh3x]

M+ really shouldn't be giving out mythic raiding ilvl gear.

Mythic raiding is the hardest content this game has to offer, not just from a gameplay perspective, but also from the amount of time an effort it takes to manage a functioning roster.

To give out welfare gear to +15 casuals is disrespectful to the people who actually put in the time to work for their gear.

[pinglong]

I enjoy the difficulty of getting KSM, it's not too hard, even just using pugs. I agree that Mythic raids need better gear to justify the effort of getting 20 peeps together as well as the insane difficulty.
Back in 8.2 we recruited a Frost DK for our Mythic Azshara kill who was a pure M+ player and was 0/8 in Mythic and without AOTC either. I always thought that was kinda shitty he had gear equal to us raiders and got pretty much a free Cutting Edge.

[Darsithis]

To give out welfare gear to +15 casuals is disrespectful to the people who actually put in the time to work for their gear.

This point of view is one of the stupidest ones still kicking around today about WoW.

Do you feel this way when someone wins a car comparable to yours? Is your car devalued because someone else has one? How about if someone’s family helps them buy a house of the same value as yours? Are you insulted if someone has the same clothes, the same shoes? Someone else having the same book, or maybe winning a lottery to go the same musical as you, is insulting?

Who gives a flying fuck if someone else you don’t know, or will ever know (in real life, or in game), gets something that you have? How does that diminish the work you put in for what you have? Does that somehow magically erase the time you spent working for it? Do you genuinely believe anyone , aside from your in-game friends, actually gives a shit what gear you have? You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

Stop worrying about what other people do or get in-game.

[MrLachyG]

This point of view is one of the stupidest ones still kicking around today about WoW.

Do you feel this way when someone wins a car comparable to yours? Is your car devalued because someone else has one? How about if someone’s family helps them buy a house of the same value as yours? Are you insulted if someone has the same clothes, the same shoes? Someone else having the same book, or maybe winning a lottery to go the same musical as you, is insulting?

Who gives a flying fuck if someone else you don’t know, or will ever know (in real life, or in game), gets something that you have? How does that diminish the work you put in for what you have? Does that somehow magically erase the time you spent working for it? Do you genuinely believe anyone , aside from your in-game friends, actually gives a shit what gear you have? You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

Stop worrying about what other people do or get in-game.

This is the best reply I’ve ever seen on this site

[Niwes]

so much for „play the type of content you have most fun with“ …

what i really love at mmoc (love… well, yes, it’s sarcasm), is the fact that half the ppls talking about stuff like „play what you like“, „play the game for fun“, or „play the content you like most“ blah blah. and five minutes later a bunch of ppl show up (hopefully not the same as above, cause this would make it totally stupid) to jump on the „same itemlevel in mythic raid is unfair, cause of 20 ppls management“ bandwagon.

seriously, that crowd slowly becomes hillarious af …

[Lunareste]

You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

This is EXACTLY the problem. If everyone is special, no one is.

[Nerph-]

This point of view is one of the stupidest ones still kicking around today about WoW.

Do you feel this way when someone wins a car comparable to yours? Is your car devalued because someone else has one? How about if someone’s family helps them buy a house of the same value as yours? Are you insulted if someone has the same clothes, the same shoes? Someone else having the same book, or maybe winning a lottery to go the same musical as you, is insulting?

Who gives a flying fuck if someone else you don’t know, or will ever know (in real life, or in game), gets something that you have? How does that diminish the work you put in for what you have? Does that somehow magically erase the time you spent working for it? Do you genuinely believe anyone , aside from your in-game friends, actually gives a shit what gear you have? You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

Stop worrying about what other people do or get in-game.

God damn I wish we could upvote posts here, because you nailed it.

[Jester Joe]

This is EXACTLY the problem. If everyone is special, no one is.

But that isn't a problem. WoW clearly is not meant to be a game of "I feel superior to others ergo I'm having fun". The challenge itself is supposed to be the fun part.

Besides the fact that calling +15s "Welfare gear" is such an elitist take that's pretty far removed from reality anyway. Obviously there's a huge difference between people who get CE and people who get KSM, but it's still not some faceroll content like people love to make it sound like.

[Niwes]

This point of view is one of the stupidest ones still kicking around today about WoW.

Do you feel this way when someone wins a car comparable to yours? Is your car devalued because someone else has one? How about if someone’s family helps them buy a house of the same value as yours? Are you insulted if someone has the same clothes, the same shoes? Someone else having the same book, or maybe winning a lottery to go the same musical as you, is insulting?

Who gives a flying fuck if someone else you don’t know, or will ever know (in real life, or in game), gets something that you have? How does that diminish the work you put in for what you have? Does that somehow magically erase the time you spent working for it? Do you genuinely believe anyone , aside from your in-game friends, actually gives a shit what gear you have? You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

Stop worrying about what other people do or get in-game.

the simple answer is: they invested in it (yes others did too, but that don’t matter much for these type of ppls). and because they invested in it (i.e. into mythic raiding) they think they earned the right to be a bit of a special snowflake. and seeing others with the i.e. same gear devalues or attack their special snowflake status to some degree.

for an open and intelligent mind, this is utterly stupid. but tbh, especially wow has not THAT much of such type of minds. in short: it’s stupid af, but many ppls and things out there are stupid af. this is just one more of it.

[hulkgor]

oh look, this again. how original.

[Darsithis]

This is the best reply I’ve ever seen on this site

God damn I wish we could upvote posts here, because you nailed it.

Appreciated, but I think I let the stress of the day get to me :3. I didn’t mean to be so harsh

This is EXACTLY the problem. If everyone is special, no one is.

Why would being special matter? If you’re running keys or mythic raids, you’ve probably got a solid friend/guild group going (probably). You’re special to them. What does the opinion of random strangers really mean?

[Glazey]

The level of gear is irrelevant, but the rewards (cosmetics) should vastly differ.

[Jester Joe]

The level of gear is irrelevant, but the rewards (cosmetics) should vastly differ.

I mean, they do.

Mythic raiding gets a unique armor set at least if you collect it all, and usually along with a unique mount that isn't just a recolor from the last season.

Emphasis on "usually". Because yes there are some tiers that don't have mythic mounts which is just a bit of a shortcoming on Blizz's end.

[Glazey]

I mean, they do.

Mythic raiding gets a unique armor set at least if you collect it all, and usually along with a unique mount that isn't just a recolor from the last season.

I think that's really more depending on the tier we're talking about, which is an issue. The mount is nice, but I wish it was removed after the tier and a recolor version of it was added for people to farm.

[cuafpr]

The level of gear is irrelevant, but the rewards (cosmetics) should vastly differ.

pretty much this Mythic raid = one style of gear, M+ another, crafting (without requiring group content) another, and solo/WQ another all being paths to max ilvl. Regarding speed to gear raiding, 5mans, crafting, solo/WQ. That would be 4 viable paths to max ilvl gear based on what a person enjoys in the game, which is what matters more than the OPs (and others like them) ego.

[pahbi]

This point of view is one of the stupidest ones still kicking around today about WoW.

Do you feel this way when someone wins a car comparable to yours? Is your car devalued because someone else has one? How about if someone’s family helps them buy a house of the same value as yours? Are you insulted if someone has the same clothes, the same shoes? Someone else having the same book, or maybe winning a lottery to go the same musical as you, is insulting?

Who gives a flying fuck if someone else you don’t know, or will ever know (in real life, or in game), gets something that you have? How does that diminish the work you put in for what you have? Does that somehow magically erase the time you spent working for it? Do you genuinely believe anyone , aside from your in-game friends, actually gives a shit what gear you have? You’re not special, or cool, or an icon, a hero, a role model.

Stop worrying about what other people do or get in-game.

I can say with 110% certainty, I have only ever cared about my stuff.

Its truly mind bending trying to understand folks who worry about how others get their gear.

All of that said, I don't think its unreasonable to expect a better reward for more time and work invested, indeed, had the OP been more along the lines of, 'Hey, mythic raids are a ton harder than +15 mythics, shouldn't we get something for our effort?' that might have come across a lot better.

[Angrie]

M+ really shouldn't be giving out mythic raiding ilvl gear.

Mythic raiding is the hardest content this game has to offer, not just from a gameplay perspective, but also from the amount of time an effort it takes to manage a functioning roster.

To give out welfare gear to +15 casuals is disrespectful to the people who actually put in the time to work for their gear.

AH yes, saying it's too easy when the content is 1 year and 8 months old. See you in Dragonflight with your next started thread, "Why can't I Clear +15s anymore?"

[SinR]

Appreciated, but I think I let the stress of the day get to me :3. I didn’t mean to be so harsh

No... no... He deserved it

[Glazey]

pretty much this Mythic raid = one style of gear, M+ another, crafting (without requiring group content) another, and solo/WQ another all being paths to max ilvl. Regarding speed to gear raiding, 5mans, crafting, solo/WQ. That would be 4 viable paths to max ilvl gear based on what a person enjoys in the game, which is what matters more than the OPs (and others like them) ego.

Solo/WQs should be an option to max gear, but more as a catch up as the patch goes on. This is still a MMO where the idea is to group with fellow link minded players.

Solo challenges like Mage tower is fine, but I don't want to encourage solo play to that degree in that you can play solo in this MMO be on equal footing with people who do group content.

[Delekii]

M+ really shouldn't be giving out mythic raiding ilvl gear.

Mythic raiding is the hardest content this game has to offer, not just from a gameplay perspective, but also from the amount of time an effort it takes to manage a functioning roster.

To give out welfare gear to +15 casuals is disrespectful to the people who actually put in the time to work for their gear.

Difficulty should in no way take into account busywork and bookkeeping. If it is disrespectful to people who actually put in the time to work for their gear, the only people who should get gear from raids are the raid leader, and maybe another person to assist them. Everyone else is functionally a puppet, and M+ is harder in every other case besides the people organising.

If you want to raid with 19 other people, you go do that, but you shouldn't get rewarded for it because it's hard to find 19 other people on earth who want to go through that tedium.

Raids are a holdover of a past time in MMOs, that is the only reason they still hold their position as king dick of PvE; not because they are better in any other way that isn't subjective.