Should FFA PVP zones be alowed in non-WM?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Not sure why this is a big deal. PvErs knew not to enter Wintergrasp or Tol Barad or Ashran.

[WowIsDead64]

That's your opinion. You don't care about them. Ok. But I've warned you. It's not PVP problem only. It's overall problem, that Blizzard constantly use design, that "pushes" something on players, cuz devs assume, that this thing would be successful, so everybody would do it anyway. Maw, Torghast, etc. It's bad for game. And game is in situation, where devs no longer can ignore such problems. Again. Major problem with Blizzard - they fix one thing, only to brake another at the same time, like if they would have some obsession about broken game design. Game will never be saved this way.

BFA failed exactly due to being PVP-centric. Do we need another BFA 2.0? Another problem: successful xpack =/= successful game design. Devs seems to have no clue, what to do with their game to fix it. So they constantly think something like "Xpack X was successful? May be just try to copy-paste it's design?". Yeah, FFA zones are from Legion, that was considered to be successful. But does it make FFA zones successful design? I guess, no.

Simple thing. I'm PVE player, who has got sick of suffering from PVP. May be it will be minor annoyance, but it makes me nervous, when Blizzard try to "push" some PVP on me, while I don't need it in any shape or form. Again.

[deenman]

No I think they should do more of these ffa pvp zones and remove Warmode.

Warmode is bad design, it splits up the playerbase needlessly. Open pvp is best when confined to specific areas.

lol,how is that any different from pvp and pve servers spliting up the playerbase? warmode atleast lets people try it without feeling like being locked in on a server type,and its a fast and easy opt in,warmode is the best thing to be added to pvp since arenas

[enigma77]

lol,how is that any different from pvp and pve servers spliting up the playerbase? warmode atleast lets people try it without feeling like being locked in on a server type,and its a fast and easy opt in,warmode is the best thing to be added to pvp since arenas

I was NOT talking about pvp servers coming back.

I was referring to open world sub zones in which ffa pvp is possible.

[deenman]

I was NOT talking about pvp servers coming back.

I was referring to open world sub zones in which ffa pvp is possible.

oh,wait so...you wanna replace warmode with small ffa pvp areas?that....actualy sounds worse than just bringing back pvp servers lol

i got nothing against ffa pvp areas,even with warmode off,but replacing it just seems weird,like replacing my house with a cardboard box

[WowIsDead64]

Perfect design - is when PVP things would be turned into PVE in PVE mode. I.e. complete PVE/PVP separation. Like FFA arena turns in PVE WQ in PVE mode. Or WQ with competition turns into WQ without competition in PVE mode. Simply via disabling quest item despawn and mob tagging. But Blizzard are too lazy to develop two modes at the same time, no matter how easy and quick modifications are.

They also think too much about "PVE effectiveness >> PVP competition". This is major Wow's problem. Pushing things with lower priority up. I.e. if for certain player PVE > PVP, then it's his choice. If player would truly like PVP, he would do it no matter what. If nobody likes PVP - then that's it, PVP isn't popular, deal with it. But devs push unpopular things via making them mandatory instead. This is bad.

I understand, that devs usually have different logic. It's something like "Too few players play content X and more players are needed for it to be enjoyable - so lets force players to there to fix it". But this is always wrong. Because it's bad for both categories of players. It's lose-lose situation. In both cases some players should be sacrificed. And may be it's better to keep at least PVE players, instead of forcing them to PVP, losing them and then losing PVP players too? I.e. losing everything.

[Tentim]

I would say no they tend to just create flight deadlines when you wanna get things done.

[exochaft]

I would say no they tend to just create flight deadlines when you wanna get things done.

This is one of those unintended consequences that I sort of like about it. Basically, you can turn it into an RP/lore "no fly zone" where it literally doesn't allow you to fly through without risk of getting dismounted or flagged for PvP. Not every place needs to allow unimpeded flight or flight with zero consequences. As long as they aren't everywhere and have fixed spawn locations, any 'optimal' routes would by default tend to exclude such zones anyways. The hassles of such zones are completely overblown, as even in Legion you could easily avoid the zones or fly high enough (or fast enough) through a FFA zone without getting flagged... and the only risk of dismounting was after you were flagged and being the target of the dismount net, which wouldn't be an issue unless you were flying pretty low.

Simply put, it's a non-issue if done appropriately. You don't need something akin to 1/2 of a zone dedicated for FFA, unless the entire zone itself is marketed as such (like the original Ashran designated as pretty much a PvP zone back in WoD). Maybe 2-3 spots max per zone, and having them not active all the time works. Put a PvP flagging height limit so you can pass through without flagging at a certain height if necessary All this being said, not everything has to be super-convenient, nor should it be.

If one wants to view this from a different angle, it's a subtle implementation of a high risk / high reward scenario. If you want to shave off several seconds of flight time or get certain resources within a FFA zone, there's a risk involved that is by no means mandatory. Having such things in the game is a good thing, as long as the risk/reward ratios aren't overblown comparatively... and for once, Blizz has done this sort of balance pretty well.

Also, this allows a method of acquiring PvP rewards even if you tend to be PvE without having to go into BGs/arenas if you choose. If the upcoming FFA zones are anything like the Legion ones, it's a decent amount of rewards where there are PvE solutions to avoiding PvP. It was to the point where you could kill PvE mobs or loot stuff in a minute or two without even having to engage in PvP. As long as they don't tune things to where there's no feasible PvE option (such as the respawn timers on PvE mobs being way too long), then offering rewards from these areas for non-WM people who want to take that risk is fine. Worst case, form a group if every random person is feeling frisky, safety in numbers is a pretty big deterrent.

[WowIsDead64]

This is one of those unintended consequences that I sort of like about it. Basically, you can turn it into an RP/lore "no fly zone" where it literally doesn't allow you to fly through without risk of getting dismounted or flagged for PvP. Not every place needs to allow unimpeded flight or flight with zero consequences. As long as they aren't everywhere and have fixed spawn locations, any 'optimal' routes would by default tend to exclude such zones anyways. The hassles of such zones are completely overblown, as even in Legion you could easily avoid the zones or fly high enough (or fast enough) through a FFA zone without getting flagged... and the only risk of dismounting was after you were flagged and being the target of the dismount net, which wouldn't be an issue unless you were flying pretty low.

Simply put, it's a non-issue if done appropriately. You don't need something akin to 1/2 of a zone dedicated for FFA, unless the entire zone itself is marketed as such (like the original Ashran designated as pretty much a PvP zone back in WoD). Maybe 2-3 spots max per zone, and having them not active all the time works. Put a PvP flagging height limit so you can pass through without flagging at a certain height if necessary All this being said, not everything has to be super-convenient, nor should it be.

I had constant problems with PVP FFA zone in Valsharah back in Legion, because it was right on my PVE route.

[Dracullus]

For the most part I agree with this although I don't consider it bad game design per se. It's a design that I may not care for but I'm not arrogant enough to say that everything I dislike in the game is "bad design."

Warmode is bad design, it splits up the playerbase needlessly. Open pvp is best when confined to specific areas.

These back to back are pretty funny.

Back to topic, I really can't find cons in war mode. I like to have choice. Maybe I appreciate that more after being stuck on PVP server for years (which I liked on main, but I always kept my all alts together, including opposite faction.. and you know how one side these PVP servers were).

Very often PVP world quest gives big chunk of honor or marks which makes it worth even on alt, so it's good I don't have to run to capital to turn war mode just for that. Complaining about changing PVP quests to Legion is complete nonsense, but quick look at OP makes everything very clear.

[Tentim]

This is one of those unintended consequences that I sort of like about it. Basically, you can turn it into an RP/lore "no fly zone" where it literally doesn't allow you to fly through without risk of getting dismounted or flagged for PvP. Not every place needs to allow unimpeded flight or flight with zero consequences. As long as they aren't everywhere and have fixed spawn locations, any 'optimal' routes would by default tend to exclude such zones anyways. The hassles of such zones are completely overblown, as even in Legion you could easily avoid the zones or fly high enough (or fast enough) through a FFA zone without getting flagged... and the only risk of dismounting was after you were flagged and being the target of the dismount net, which wouldn't be an issue unless you were flying pretty low.

Simply put, it's a non-issue if done appropriately. You don't need something akin to 1/2 of a zone dedicated for FFA, unless the entire zone itself is marketed as such (like the original Ashran designated as pretty much a PvP zone back in WoD). Maybe 2-3 spots max per zone, and having them not active all the time works. Put a PvP flagging height limit so you can pass through without flagging at a certain height if necessary All this being said, not everything has to be super-convenient, nor should it be.

If one wants to view this from a different angle, it's a subtle implementation of a high risk / high reward scenario. If you want to shave off several seconds of flight time or get certain resources within a FFA zone, there's a risk involved that is by no means mandatory. Having such things in the game is a good thing, as long as the risk/reward ratios aren't overblown comparatively... and for once, Blizz has done this sort of balance pretty well.

Also, this allows a method of acquiring PvP rewards even if you tend to be PvE without having to go into BGs/arenas if you choose. If the upcoming FFA zones are anything like the Legion ones, it's a decent amount of rewards where there are PvE solutions to avoiding PvP. It was to the point where you could kill PvE mobs or loot stuff in a minute or two without even having to engage in PvP. As long as they don't tune things to where there's no feasible PvE option (such as the respawn timers on PvE mobs being way too long), then offering rewards from these areas for non-WM people who want to take that risk is fine. Worst case, form a group if every random person is feeling frisky, safety in numbers is a pretty big deterrent.

I've never felt a need to land. Let's focus on making things I want to land for rather then restricting flight.

[Byleth]

I really didn't have a problem with PvP zones in PvE mode. In legion especially they were fun to pop into every once and a while for a cheeky quest. I don't think it's bad game design at all, it's just another option for things to do.