BG Queue from anywhere added to Wrath Classic

[varren]

They are just taunting the LFD crowd with this lol

[Recovery]

You used to have to walk to the physical instance portals for BGs just like you had to for dungeons. They made that change in late Vanilla.

Yeah, we all know. No one was arguing against that.

- - - Updated - - -

And what difference does it make? You still need to interrupt your play in order to go somewhere to access the instance manually. You don't walk to the instance portal of a BG, but you walk to the battlemaster who might as well be renamed as "human portal for BGs". Beyond that, this was a QoL feature present in the original WotLK that Blizzard stupidly decided to remove (just like the automated LFD one) and now they came back to their senses. Hopefully that will be the case for the LFD tool as well, soon.

Honestly, most people that are qing BGs or arena arent typically doing things out in the world. It's not a really a big deal to Q at an npc. Dungeons in wrath, however, will be used for leveling and gearing. People leveling are obviously doing things in the world. People who are gearing are obviously doing things in the world as well (rep grinds, etc).

Its different. But again, im pro LFG. Im pro anything that makes the game more efficient.

[RobertMugabe]

Hoping they will add LFD later on.

[xenogear3]

Pvp is a mini game like pet battles, it doesn't have an end game that matters.

Except PvP gets end game gear.

However, I agree with you in terms of PvP is a "cheap" or "non-story-related" content.

Raids and Dungeons are more expensive to make.
It requires to tune the difficulty.
You cannot compare PvP with Raids and Dungeons.

[Nachtigal]

Cata classic announced midway through, alongside an admission that the biggest issue was LFR not LFD, concluding with the implementation of server specific automated LFD queuing. We’ll see continued efforts (with possible rewards?) on getting people away from mega servers to even out realm populations. Most servers have a significantly larger population than they did back in the day.

[Relapses]

As like the New World devs always told they want no dungeon finder. Millions logged in initially. Now its down to a few thousand. Hype is what blizzard lives from currently with WoW. All new expacs are hypes which are over fast. All classic except probably vanilla wow have (had) a big start and a few people still playing after a few weeks. People quest. Some up to endgame level. And if they see how few conveniences there are, they leave again.

I for one love the fact the devs fail with their toxic stance about matchmade groups. And i love it even more they are too stubborn to change that. Shows how biased they are. And how stupid.

There's nothing "toxic" about making a decision which fits the developers vision of the video game. Spending every waking moment of your life obsessing over these decisions because you can't simply move the fuck on and accept that maybe you're not the game's target demographic, on the other hand...

[Relapses]

Sure it is toxic if a decisions locks out thousands of players from dungeon gameplay because they do not want to wait in the lfg chat for hours.

That is actually gatekeeping. One of the most toxic reasons to limit gameplay to a few.

But that is how the nowadays devs are. They turn casual gamers into cash cows that feed boosters with gold. They make pvp, an inherently game mode which should be about skill, based on gear, to allow their favourite players (well equipped premade group players) to "pwn newbs", they design pve based on one of the least successfull group building tools possible.. guild groups.

And they remove a dungeon finder which would have allowed thousands and millions of players fast access to dungeon content.

It doesn't lock anybody out of anything. The dungeons are still there you just have to move your character to them. The RDF is a convenience feature which Blizzard obviously doesn't feel is necessary for Classic. That's all there is to it. It's not part of some greater conspiracy to sell tokens or boosts or whatever the fuck else you've convinced yourself it is.

[Relapses]

Yeah, all that money is also there. You just have to take it to become millionaire. Right?

How in the actual fuck do you compare walking to a fucking dungeon to becoming a millionaire? What a completely ridiculous analogy.

The dungeons are there, but you find groups way rarely without an automated matchmaking system. Which is obviously what the devs have in mind with their stupid removal of one of the most successfull tools to play group gameplay in WoW.

There is a matchmaking system. The fact that you don't want to use it says more about you than it does the game. Like I said, square peg, round hole. If you want to get magically yeeted to every dungeon just play on a Wrath pirate server.

While 70%-80% of their players disagree. But hey, they think they want the original wotlk df, but they don't, right? J. Allen Brack is still strong in the devs.

Wanting and needing something are two entirely different things. I'd vote in favor the RDF myself because convenience features are nice to have. But I also respect and understand Blizzard's decision not to add it to this version of the game. They want Classic to have a distinct separation from retail. There's no need to construct elaborate conspiracies about how Blizzard is indirectly fueling the boosting economy or forcing players to buy gold. The bottom line is that Classic has been successful up to this point without it and it will likely continue to remain successful for years to come. People aren't suddenly going to realize the RDF isn't coming and quit the game.

[Relapses]

Not really. Time is a currency as well. And especially casual gamers do not have a lot of time to use the lfg chat.

I am sure you will get it at some point.

Oh yeah, please lecture me more about how time is money while you're playing a fucking video game. Unfuckingbelievable.

That is no matchmaking. Matchmaking is, if a game system creates a group randomly out of a pool of people who queue up. It is the most successfull tool to build groups, not just in MMORPGs but also in every modern multiplayer games like MOBAs or group brawlers. The most successfull games nowadays are games with fast and smart matchmaking systems.

You put your group in the LFG tool. It matches with you players who may be interested in doing the same dungeon. It is a matchmaking system. What you mean to say is that you want to press a fucking button and have the game form the group for you so you can spend more time alt-tabbed on forums seeking validation for weird conspiracy theories about how the developers of WoW hate their customers.

Yes, and 70-80% of their players want a typical matchmaking dungeon finder. Here we are. Some devs believing doing the "best" for their players, and a lot of players who do not want them to do their "best".. if it is about removing convenient tools the players love to use especially.

Just one of many aspects of incompetence. Do not know your customers. Do exactly the opposite of what they want. And argue it with stupid bias opinions and false ideas about "social toxicity".

Customers are not always right. Sometimes customers need to be told to fuck off. This is one of those situations: Don't like it, play another video game. Simple as.

In the meantime, I promise you most WoW players are ambivalent on the issue as we wouldn't be seeing record populations on the Wrath servers if it were the linchpin you seem convinced it is.

[Dadwen]

Not really. Time is a currency as well. And especially casual gamers do not have a lot of time to use the lfg chat.

I am sure you will get it at some point.



That is no matchmaking. Matchmaking is, if a game system creates a group randomly out of a pool of people who queue up. It is the most successfull tool to build groups, not just in MMORPGs but also in every modern multiplayer games like MOBAs or group brawlers. The most successfull games nowadays are games with fast and smart matchmaking systems.



Yes, and 70-80% of their players want a typical matchmaking dungeon finder. Here we are. Some devs believing doing the "best" for their players, and a lot of players who do not want them to do their "best".. if it is about removing convenient tools the players love to use especially.

Just one of many aspects of incompetence. Do not know your customers. Do exactly the opposite of what they want. And argue it with stupid bias opinions and false ideas about "social toxicity".

As someone, that myself and an also had friends that have toons on a faction imbalanced server in BC classic the dipshits that keep saying you can make a group with out a cross-realm group finder need to pull those other group member's out of their ass along with all the other talking they are doing, or post their CC# so everyone stuck on them can use it to buy server transfers. *looks like you're having a talk with one of the clueless ones now.

[Relapses]

As someone, that myself and an also had friends that have toons on a faction imbalanced server in BC classic the dipshits that keep saying you can make a group with out a cross-realm group finder need to pull those other group member's out of their ass along with all the other talking they are doing, or post their CC# so everyone stuck on them can use it to buy server transfers. *looks like you're having a talk with one of the clueless ones now.

What you're describing is a social problem created by players. You can't expect Blizzard to fix every single fucking problem because some solutions have very real drawbacks. Pretending that the RDF is the panacea for all of the game's ailments is the same kind of magical thinking which led to all the problems people "escaped" from retail in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

I already told you everything about hypes. I wonder you ignore that.

Because it's not a fucking argument? You're just handwaving the very real fact that the game is popular in spite of the lack of an RDF and then saying that at some indeterminate point in the future the game will be less popular and you're insisting the reason will be solely because the game doesn't have the RDF. This is conspiratorial thinking, something which you exhibit in nearly every single post you make on this website.

[Dadwen]

What you're describing is a social problem created by players. You can't expect Blizzard to fix every single fucking problem because some solutions have very real drawbacks. Pretending that the RDF is the panacea for all of the game's ailments is the same kind of magical thinking which led to all the problems people "escaped" from retail in the first place.

Right nothing to do with players wanted to play and be able to play all aspects of the game, so they all transfer to a mega server and blizzard was more than happy to take that money regardless of the consequences to the game...

Right without RDF everyone goes around smelling the roses and singing kumbaya....

ya right escape retail by going to classic and here we have blizzard putting more and more of their shitty recent designs philosophy into the Classic (crap version of the M+ finder, end game dungeons now M+ no dungeon find allowed, talk of switching around raid and dungeon scaling\gear and even talk of a Challenge mode for dungeons for later)

[SXSWFun]

Yeah, let's all play battlegrounds so we can be banned for 30 days.

No thanks!

[Relapses]

Excuse me, but you could literally create any kind of trash MMORPG (see Newworld), and still would be successfull during a launch. Players want a new MMORPG because the current most popular gameplay implementations do not manage to do adress the players, so people are simply hyped for every next big new shiny competitor to become the big new messiah of massive multiplayer online roleplay gaming. And WoW itself is part of that. While Blizzard simply manages to disappoint over and over and over again. Short after release of any new incarnation which hypes millions most of those simply will leave again, especially if the design is as bad as what the wow devs deliver nowadays. Well, and Amazon Studios.

So on top of flagrant conspiratorial thinking we now have a helpful serving of whataboutism. Neat. I really have no idea what New World has to do with this conversation (nothing, really) and you seem to only want to mention it because it failed and you want to insist it's because the developers failed to listen to players. (And not because it was a kind of shitty game that got rushed out the door before it was ready.)

Whatever man. I'm done with this conversation. Have a nice day.

[Dadwen]

Yeah, let's all play battlegrounds so we can be banned for 30 days.

No thanks!

Knowing recent blizz IQ levels, it was the only way they could think of to shorten the queue times.

[Fkiolaris]

Honestly, most people that are qing BGs or arena arent typically doing things out in the world. It's not a really a big deal to Q at an npc. Dungeons in wrath, however, will be used for leveling and gearing. People leveling are obviously doing things in the world. People who are gearing are obviously doing things in the world as well (rep grinds, etc).

Its different. But again, im pro LFG. Im pro anything that makes the game more efficient.

I might be wrong, but in WotLK you could actually get better gear from casual pvp (BGs) than dungeons, minus the weapons with rating? Or at least gear worth pursuing as a casual player? So they do have a gearing value for casuals as well.

Anyway, we are both on the same page on this, hopefully we'll see the original LFD tool implemented. In the meantime, all the best in your adventures in-game!

And with all due respect, i doubt have serious doubts that on a server where you struggle to find a tank, healer and 2 dps for a dungeon, you can suddenly shake 39 people out of your hat unless something just released.

Do you not appreciate that you are simply making the case that LFD is as needed for dungeons as the automated BG queue is for BGs? Sometimes I wonder if you just like to argue and write essays just for the sake of it. Either way, enjoy the launch of WotLK and maybe see you in a BG some day

[Kralljin]

I might be wrong, but in WotLK you could actually get better gear from casual pvp (BGs) than dungeons, minus the weapons with rating? Or at least gear worth pursuing as a casual player? So they do have a gearing value for casuals as well.

PvP Gear is pretty shit in Wrath for PvE because Resilience takes up a secondary stat slot, only weapons are any good and those, as you noted, require a rating, because their main value lies in SP / Weapon dps, not secondary stats.

Do you not appreciate that you are simply making the case that LFD is as needed for dungeons as the automated BG queue is for BGs?

I do not believe that somebody who claims that they find it easier to put together a group of 40 people is easier than 5 people, even if 2 of those need to fit a specific criteria, is being genuine.

So no, i'm not making a case for DF, i'm pointing out why BG's would likely be outright dysfunctional for the vast majority of servers out there.
And there is a huge difference between content being dysfunctional and less acessible.

[Fkiolaris]

PvP Gear is pretty shit in Wrath for PvE because Resilience takes up a secondary stat slot, only weapons are any good and those, as you noted, require a rating, because their main value lies in SP / Weapon dps, not secondary stats.

Thanks for setting the record straight, I did say I wasn't sure I remembered correctly.

I do not believe that somebody who claims that they find it easier to put together a group of 40 people is easier than 5 people, even if 2 of those need to fit a specific criteria, is being genuine.

I never said it's easier than 5 mans though, so stop arguing with yourself about it. I said not having specific roles mitigates the size requirements in relation to an equivalent PvE scenario. And even with that, 40man raids in Classic were a thing every day of the week even on a mid-sized server like mine.

So no, i'm not making a case for DF

As for that...

on a server where you struggle to find a tank, healer and 2 dps for a dungeon

Can't put the people together for a BG manually so a cross-server, automated queue is needed - if then (as you say) you can't put together the people needed for a dungeon, the solution is...

Anyway, I am done arguing with you. I am happy with the BG tool and I am waiting for the LFD one, I hope you enjoy the game and see you around.

All the best

[Kralljin]

I said not having specific roles mitigates the size requirements in relation to an equivalent PvE scenario.

Problem remains that this aspect has a gaping flaw when applied in reality.
A premade consisting out of 5 Warriors, 3 Rogues and 2 Warlocks will struggle against any comp that has a single healer or even a hardcounter.

You can get the game going, but PvP games aren't like dungeons where success of the player is effectively assured and people will stop playing if they keep losing.

You literally had this in Classic when people built server based pre mades and there you only could away with those terrible comps if you were the only players ranking on the server - and even then you still had a terrible time because you lost against most pre mades.
On large servers, you had to play proper comps else you'd be so much less honor efficient so that others would easily outfarm you.

Can't put the people together for a BG manually so a cross-server, automated queue is needed - if then (as you say) you can't put together the people needed for a dungeon, the solution is...

Again, first, you need *a lot* more people for a BG than for a 5man dungeon depending on the battleground.
Second, WoW is primarily a PvE game, meaning your playerpool for PvP based activities is generally much smaller.

Your argument completely disregards the fact that Battlegrounds are much greater logistical challenge to the point where even medium pop servers would struggle to get battlegrounds going.
If you cannot get a Dungeon group going, you probably play on a low pop realm that can barely sustain a playable playersize and thus renders the entire game (not just dungeons) unplayable - any content besides 5man dungeons would still be a massive challenge on this server even with DF.

If you cannot get a battleground going, then that already includes medium pop realms where the rest of the game is still playable but battlegrounds aren't, because they involve many more players from a smaller pool (people that are interest in PvP).

[God Save The King]

Yeah, we all know. No one was arguing against that.

Person I replied to implied otherwise.