[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Syegfryed]

Seems like its the disney way of doing things, show start good and it slowly going down with each episode, and at the end they put something important or good to keep the viewer, This episode was pointless and i felt baited cause i though daredevil was showing up

Guess at elast we got "mister immortal" who is prob the first propper mutant we see in the MCU

[Ragedaug]

This remains entirely in your head; a narrative you invented and brought with you to the show, and which you have consistently and unapologetically lied about the show to try and ram that narrative into place.

You're making this shit up. Nothing about this show is "sexist".

You seem very upset and hostile towards an opinion. I mean, isn't every opinion entirely in our own heads? Bring it down a notch. Stop shouting at folks and explain why their perception is off. Try to help someone. If you don't think you can help them, ignore them.

[Witchblade77]

Guess at elast we got "mister immortal" who is prob the first propper mutant we see in the MCU

I thought that was Ms Marvel? first proper mutant in MCU that is

Bucky is actually perfect for the team. Yelena and Taskmaster were both brainwashed into becoming assassins but now have had their minds freed from that control. Ghost and John Walker both had something happen to them and they lost control...but now want to atone. Basically, they're all like him in one way or another. He's basically the perfect guide for them.

The real standout there is Red Guardian...but I think it's going to be pretty obvious he's only there for Yelena.

the reason I'm not so sure is because Valentina is still going down covert assassinations path, and I'm pretty sure last thing Bucky wants to do is assassinate any more people, but I supposed she could also be getting to him in other ways. you are right about their similarities and in a way Red Guardian was also misled and manipulated by the people he trusted

[paxen]

Film Crit Hulk finally put out an essay on Ms Marvel, but I feel like the intro is also very relevant for this thread
https://www.patreon.com/posts/ms-marvel-disney-72340954

I find that I’ve been writing more and more about the subject of who a movie is “for” because Hollywood finally seems to be cluing into the fact that there is a mass audience for people who aren’t white males. I know! Who woulda thunk! But this is also important because younger audiences are genuinely interested in art that represents all different kinds of people across the spectrum. But it’s at this particular intersection that you realize just how much popcorn fare of the past is designed to satisfy a certain audience member with an indulgent sense of reward. I don’t really say that cynically, it’s just acknowledging there’s this little button of personal satisfaction that gets hit in our brains when we watch something that makes us feel empowered. It’s why superheroes make us feel good. And this is where the 1:1 of feeling truly connected to a certain character comes into play. Cue the seeming revelation of how many women found themselves crying during the Wonder Woman fight scenes because you realize how few movies actually do fights in a celebratory heroic way (as opposed to “badass” female side character with zero personality or something). I also remember tweets being like “is this how guys feel all the time?! I WANT TO FIGHT A HUNDRED DUDES!” Yes, this is about that proverbial button. This empowering emotion of popcorn action is a very real thing. And it plays into the discourse in a very real way.

To wit, when it comes to people who dismiss art that’s “not for them,” yes, there are your garden variety racists who hate this shit sight unseen and seem to make a career of hating it. This weirdly speaks to what I’m saying though because as if they literally want to monopolize the empowering nature of popular art. But aside from them, there are still some general audiences who support the expansive nature of popular art, but seemingly can’t get into these “less-general” popcorn stories because on a subconscious level it doesn’t play into their “hit my button!” dynamic. They may not realize that that’s what is failing to rouse them, just as they probably don’t realize how much it is a crucial part of how they consume a lot of popcorn movies. But for some folks, they’ll just never get past that barrier. Especially when a movie like Captain Marvel plays up to the big catharsis of how Carol Danvers actually doesn’t care what a man thinks of her (which hits so many men as subconscious dismissal). But what that means is that it’s a failure to realize how completely cathartic a button push that would be for the intended audience. It, like so many forms of catharsis, is a fulcrum point for two different audiences. And if you are going to be fair in your evaluation in any way, you 1) have to understand how these fulcrums function and 2) have to find catharsis in others having catharsis.

[Endus]

I thought that was Ms Marvel? first proper mutant in MCU that is

First one the term was applied to. Whether that means she has the X-gene in exactly the way that's meant in the comics is not established. What was revealed was that she has Djinn genetics mixed in plus something else, but we have no idea what that "something else" could be; it could just as easily be Kree and she's Inhuman (like in the comics). But regardless, that's a silly argument and the distinction really doesn't actually matter as far as the MCU is concerned. My point here is that the idea of a "proper mutant" is really pretty darned silly and unless the MCU establishes the X-gene as a thing, specifically, not applicable.

This gets particularly silly because it's basically the latent X-gene in the comics that made humanity open to the Kree experiments that created Inhumans in the first place.

[Syegfryed]

I thought that was Ms Marvel? first proper mutant in MCU that is

I dunno, didn't watch the show but afaik, she got her power from the items, this dude is immortal for a long time, and does not seem like some itens, spell or anything related

[Witchblade77]

First one the term was applied to. Whether that means she has the X-gene in exactly the way that's meant in the comics is not established. What was revealed was that she has Djinn genetics mixed in plus something else, but we have no idea what that "something else" could be; it could just as easily be Kree and she's Inhuman (like in the comics). But regardless, that's a silly argument and the distinction really doesn't actually matter as far as the MCU is concerned. My point here is that the idea of a "proper mutant" is really pretty darned silly and unless the MCU establishes the X-gene as a thing, specifically, not applicable.

This gets particularly silly because it's basically the latent X-gene in the comics that made humanity open to the Kree experiments that created Inhumans in the first place.

your first sentence was all that needed to be said in context of the post I was replying to. all of the other information is interesting context overall, yes, but I was replying to a post that states Mr. Immortal was the first mutant in MCU. as far as I'm aware, that's Ms Marvel at least at this time.

- - - Updated - - -

I dunno, didn't watch the show but afaik, she got her power from the items, this dude is immortal for a long time, and does not seem like some itens, spell or anything related

more like she was able to ACESS her power with the help of items. And as post above shows, she was outright named a mutant. Mr Immortal might be one in this setting (technically Wanda and Pietro are supposed to be mutants, but they are not in MCU, so he is not guaranteed to be one either unless stated outright), but he is never called one.

[Biomega]

Also, didn't the comics at some point say Mr. Immortal isn't the same kind of mutant as the X-men-type mutants but something even more superior? Having evolved out of death and everything?

So I guess not "proper mutant" in that sense either.

[Kallisto]

I thought that was Ms Marvel? first proper mutant in MCU that is

I thought she was implied inhuman.

[Kathandira]

I thought she was implied inhuman.

In the comics she was shown as an Inhuman due to property rights disputes. Now that those are sorted out, she can be a Mutant as she was originally intended to be.

[Darththeo]

I thought she was implied inhuman.

The original idea for Ms Marvel in the comics was to be a mutant, but at the time, Marvel didn't control mutant movie rights and all new mutants would automatically go to Fox for the rights. So, in the comics, they made her inhuman instead whose rights belonged with Marvel still. Thus would allow her to be used in MCU properties without any reworking of contracts. Fox was not willing to work with Marvel Studios at all with the MCU however Universal who had Hulk's rights and even Sony were open to it. (Seriously, we nearly had Garfield's Spider-man in the MCU or at least references to his movies like the Oscorp tower). So, Marvel Comics stopped making new Mutant characters for the most part as well as stopped introducing new characters via the Fantastic 4 to prevent those character's movie rights to auto go to Fox. (Obviously now, this is a non-issue.)

So, if the MCU version is a mutant, than she is brought in line with the original plan for Ms Marvel. If the mutant thing is just a red herring to let us know mutants are coming and she is really an inhuman, that's fine as well with me.

- - - Updated - - -

In the comics she was shown as an Inhuman due to property rights disputes. Now that those are sorted out, she can be a Mutant as she was originally intended to be.

Movie rights, not property rights.

If she was a mutant, her movie rights would had gone instantly to Fox at the time per the contract. Marvel's contracts with the studios strongly favored the Studios over Marvel themselves. Essentially, the Studios can cancel the contract by simply not making/releasing a movie using the property. But, Marvel would have had to buy the rights back in order to cancel the contract and it was not cost effective to do so.

[cocomen2]

If this is how ever in perfect body condition of un-aging,sexy,stupid white male Mr. Immortal portrayed by old grandpa with shitload of wife's; ye its sad thing.

Both She-hulk and mr. Immortal looks like they way past 50y. old

[Dystemper]

This is the most garbage show I have ever see. No real story, nothing is moved forward , and the characters are unlikeable. Who approved this mess?

[Endus]

This is the most garbage show I have ever see. No real story, nothing is moved forward , and the characters are unlikeable. Who approved this mess?

You'd be well-served to recognize that "I don't like a thing" is just your personal subjective opinion, and you're free to stop watching if you don't like it.

There's plenty of story.
I don't know what you expect to be "moved forward". If it's some grander plotline, that's not this show's purpose or responsibility. If you mean the internal plot, it is moving forward.
I like most of the characters just fine and some, like Wong and Madisynn, are absolutely spectacular.

You're free to not agree with me on what we each like, but your opinion's relevance stops with you. Literally all you're saying is that you don't like it. So what? Just stop hate-watching. Easy.

[paxen]

On Ms Marvel, they played the X-Men theme (from the animated show). She can be still be any kind of mutant they want, but whatever it is, they're telegraphing that it's whatever type of mutant that the X-Men are.

[Svifnymr]

more like she was able to ACESS her power with the help of items. And as post above shows, she was outright named a mutant. Mr Immortal might be one in this setting (technically Wanda and Pietro are supposed to be mutants, but they are not in MCU, so he is not guaranteed to be one either unless stated outright), but he is never called one.

I thought her "mutation" allowed her to access the energy of the bangle without the side effects others suffered rather than her actually having any ability to like, generate things herself. Not positive though, since the mutation thing was pretty much last minute.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

the reason I'm not so sure is because Valentina is still going down covert assassinations path, and I'm pretty sure last thing Bucky wants to do is assassinate any more people, but I supposed she could also be getting to him in other ways. you are right about their similarities and in a way Red Guardian was also misled and manipulated by the people he trusted

I think Valentina will get him with a "I'm going to do this with or without you. If you're involved...you can at least help guide it. Otherwise i guess I'll just have to put John Walker in the team lead. You think John will care about collateral damage as much as you would?"

For Red Guardian I think it's more that he was cast aside when he was no longer useful. Probably manipulated a bit...but he still had agency in a way that Yelena, Taskmaster, and Bucky never did. I think the only thing he really feels a need to atone for is what happened with Yelena and Natasha getting turned over to the Red Room.

- - - Updated - - -

So, if the MCU version is a mutant, than she is brought in line with the original plan for Ms Marvel. If the mutant thing is just a red herring to let us know mutants are coming and she is really an inhuman, that's fine as well with me.

I think it would be tricky to backtrack and turn her into an inhuman at this point. Agents of Shield and Inhumans may not be considered cannon at this point...so there's probably nothing forcing the MCU to use terrigen mist as the activating factor for inhuman abilities...but it's still going to be what a lot of people expect. Easier to say that Kamala was a latent mutant and the bangle triggered her mutation.

[Biomega]

If this is how ever in perfect body condition of un-aging,sexy,stupid white male Mr. Immortal

I actually found that quite well executed.

Canonically, Mr. Immortal never knew he was a mutant until he died the first time. It wouldn't be surprising then that he'd lived a normal life until that point, including normal aging. And once you're ACTUALLY genuinely immortal, your entire attitude towards life WOULD be likely to change. Responsibilities mean nothing if you are free from the direst of all consequences; and similarly, faking your death WOULD seem like the logical step to take if you wanted to get out of a situation with long-term implications.

Becoming a flighty hedonist with a carefree attitude is exactly what I'd see as a possible "natural" evolution of an immortal character. So the character is very much on point. And it's also refreshing to NOT have every superhero (and especially every immortal character) be young and impossibly hot.

That was the best part of the whole episode, imo. The wedding was a cheesy snoozefest.

[Mehrunes]

you absolutely care what people think That’s why you came into the thread lying and have continued to do so for weeks at this point.

You want to push your narrative and want It to been seen as valid but you can’t actually back it Up so you have to constantly lie about it.

To be honest he's been doing it for years in the lore forum by now, so it's pretty much par for the course.

[Darththeo]

I think it would be tricky to backtrack and turn her into an inhuman at this point. Agents of Shield and Inhumans may not be considered cannon at this point...so there's probably nothing forcing the MCU to use terrigen mist as the activating factor for inhuman abilities...but it's still going to be what a lot of people expect. Easier to say that Kamala was a latent mutant and the bangle triggered her mutation.

Oh, I don't see them backtracking personally. I am just saying I would be okay, or I suppose I wouldn't care if they backtracked on it.