Why Is Blizzard Always At War With The Playerbase!?

[Djaye]

its not war, its an attempt to get as much money out of the playerbase for as little work as possible. this is every company in a capitalist system.
they know and have learned the metrics of what keeps players subbed and leave and return, so they balance out production so we get juuust enough to keep subs flowing. they save systems and ideas they know will be popular for when the subs start to dive. they know they would be popular and loved from the start, but waiting for sub loss is better for overall production costs as they can stop with production half way through and just float till next expansion just trickling in improved systems they knew would be problematic (i.e. legendary mats and farming, covenants).
the players do nothing but support this with broken preorder records every expansion and continuing to support the very game they constantly complain about blindly.

[Johnjohn]

I would not say they are at war, but I would say they are at odds. I think mmorpgs have always had this unique setup where it attracts a certain type of hardcore player that is very passionate and vocal about the game. Unfortunately, what they want does not necessarily lead to success, nor is it great for the overall health of the game.

A perfect example I can make is back in the days of Everquest Planes of Power, a famous guild made a huge rant about the Rathe Council being buggy, basically threatening to take the whole guild and leave Everquest if it was not fixed. This got a lot of attention by the devs.

Was the Rathe Council really what was wrong with the game? Hell no, only a tiny population (me included) even got to see the Rathe Council before it became obsolete.

The number one problem with Everquest was that it was way too time consuming and completely inaccessible to pretty much 95% of planet earth. But these loudmuth hardcore players never once brought that to light. In fact they loved it as it gave them the feeling of power in a videogame. Most casual players could not be arsed to complain, they just quit. This results in many developers having pikachu faces when things don't pan out.

Another issue I find is these companies also try to prey on addiction. It unfortunately gives mmos an online casino feel instead of being a sprawling adventure. They know they can maximize profit and minimize effort by creating a loot lottery wheel instead of investing in a seamless, adventurous world.

[Celement]

I mostly agree with you but... which part of the playerbase asked for something like Conduit Energy? lol

People who quit after leveling. Conduits and all alternative power schemes are designed to be leveling at maxed level.

[potis]

I understand what you're getting at here but this is just shifting the blame away from developers. It's really weird to say, in hindsight, that Blizzard only listened to the wrong parts of the playerbase whenever they make a controversial (or bad) change to the game. I think the reality is a little bit of Column A and a bit of Column B. Blizzard obviously reacts to player feedback but sometimes in their quest of creating a product that satisfies 100% of the playerbase they end up satisfying nobody.

I am categorizing the blame mostly, rather than shifting it, everyone is at fault, CMs are at fault for not filtering out the dumbfuckery request, then the devs are at fault from not listening to the better players, whether its pride, or MAUs or whatever it might be after the actual testing of the dumbfuckery request, and that is their most major fuck up and has been for years.

My point does stand though, the players generated the dumfuckery echo chamber request and the CM picked it up, and it starts from there.

How the developers then refuse to listen to the better/smarter/more dedicated call them whatever players, still remains a mystery.

[MrFawlty]

Not sure where you get that irrational deduction from ?

I just stated an actual fact - and you tell me that telling the truth is why I'm not in a raid group.

I don't get into a raid group because of my disability.

You admit getting carried in raids making no effort and you wonder where I got my deduction from?

[exochaft]

People who quit after leveling. Conduits and all alternative power schemes are designed to be leveling at maxed level.

They were referring to the Conduit Energy system, not the Conduit system itself. The energy aspect was absolutely a friction point that Blizz put in for various reasons, and I'm fairly certain the feedback for that system was almost completely negative. To get to the heart of the matter, the main issue with players when it came to the energy system (as well as other aspects of the conduit system in general) was that the amount of friction was too high and the amount of aspects of the system that felt like they were designed to intentionally waste time.

Now, much of this got removed or addressed at a later date, but the overarching issue is that there was feedback about the issues with this system long before these went live. I can understand wanting to stick to your guns, but Blizz has had a habit of picking the weirdest issues where they get extremely stubborn for no good reason. I'll actually give them slack with the Covenant system to some degree (the aspect where it's a permanent change) because I believe that system could've worked with the caveat that they were balanced extremely well along with some other minor changes... but they failed to meet any of the criterion I would've set out to determine if the system was working well. Ultimately, even before the beta ended anyone who was testing could tell you that there were going to be huge issues with the Covenant system because they were not balanced at all (in terms of power, applicability, etc.), there was no extensive method of testing as the leveling process usually gave you either watered down versions or couldn't be tested properly in the content you'd like, etc. All this was insanely obvious to the players testing on the beta, but Blizz decided to die on that hill for a very long time. While I initially supported the permanent Covenants, when they showed late into the development cycle that they couldn't I was adamantly against it... especially when they tried to double down on a system that obviously wasn't working.

Perhaps saying Blizz is 'at war' isn't the best way to describe what's going on, but rather 'stubborn and blinded by their proximity to their own work'. It's not uncommon that a creator can be very biased to their own works because they're always so close to it that they fail to see the full picture or how the perspective changes for an outsider. While some decisions Blizz tends to be stubborn about come with a rationale that can make sense, it usually lacks or fails to account the perspective of a non-developer or player.

Classic example was BfA where Blizz completely stripped down all the classes to where many (if not all) classes felt pretty bad or underwhelming to play because there was so much missing from the classes/specs. The obvious reason for that change was that from a developer's point of view, it's a helluva lot easier to have a very bare bones baseline class to which you can reset every expansion as it makes your work a TON easier. However, if you're a non-developer or playing the game, it felt terrible to play until you got all the things that made your class/spec feel enjoyable or playable very late into the expansion. The end result is that the developer experience was made much easier at the expense of the player experience. While this is a very cut and dry example, there are tons of other examples of varying degrees and complexity that follow the same template of Blizz making decisions with specific reasoning that just won't jive with the players or their experience at all.

Ultimately, this is probably one of those design philosophy issues with Blizz, or at least how they prioritize them. While many players would likely prioritize the game being fun over everything else, Blizz doesn't always have that same prioritization... or in some cases, it feels like it wasn't even a consideration. Part of the reason why I'm not even going to play until the expansion after DF at the earliest is because despite all the superficial changes, I have not seen concrete evidence that Blizz has changed their priorities or philosophies for the long term. If your core is jacked up, no amount of superficial goodness will have a lasting effect.

[Djuntas]

3 letters: MAU.

Greets a guy who has done almost all grinds in WoW. I peaked at 1000 world rank achivements in SL some months ago.
Blizzard knows how to make you keep playing/staying subbed.

[schwarzkopf]

You admit getting carried in raids making no effort and you wonder where I got my deduction from?

I'm assuming you are missing the point on purpose. I'm not allowed to raid by the guild - but they offered me a chance to get the mount, so I got a crapload of gear along the way.

The trivial point that you can't see is that the raid gear progression was trivial compared to the world content progression.

Now - if my mental illness didn't disbar me from doing raids - I'd love to raid just for the content itself.

[Hambo94]

And I can stop right there since citing a Youtubeer means you don't have a point of your own. He will say whatever he has to in order to get clicks, views and subs. Negativity sells and for that I do not take anything that comes from that seriously, especially when following someone does not mean they automatically agree with him. You are basically citing numbers and automatically claiming they agree with you. That is not how this works at all.

Sure, dont reply anymore if you dont want to read my entire post, where I literally addressed what you just said, so you either conveniently ignored it, or you're just snapping to conclusions and being a terrible participant in a discussion. Either way you missed what I said exactly to that, ill say it again.

Im not saying theres a 1:1 ratio of followers/subscribers to agreement with views, but im saying there is a strong correlation. Thats a fact, thats not anecdotal, thats literally just a fact. Take any influencer on any platform, and you will find that their viewerbase skews overwhelmingly onto the same side as they do. The same can be said of politically leaning channels, music artists, anything. The people subscribed/following broadly will agree with what is being said, thats literally why they follow. They are subscribers to idealogy.

Most people who hate these influencers, or completely disagree with them, dont follow them, thats just obvious.

I do have my own point of view thank you, and my point of view is what I just said above. You can look at any clips channel from any of these influencers, and view the comments and see how people agree/disagree with their statements. They are overwhelmingly in line with the influencer most of the time.

I know negativity sells, but that dosent change the fact that if a youtube channel is selling negativity, those who are buying it want to buy negativity, that shows that people are clicking, searching for those same subjects, if you dont take that seriously you're seriously missing the message. Do you really just think that all negativity online is fake?

I am not citing numbers and automatically claiming they agree with me - read my post. I clarified that not all would agree, but that a certain % of those viewers will inevitably agree, and even if that number is tiny, its still hundreds of thousands of people, which was the point of the original debate.

[Iamimpressive]

1. Stupid idea.

2. LFR is braindead storymode for people who cant actually play. Their should not even be gear given in it as those players do not deserve it. If you can not even heroic, you should not get s mount.

3. Flying should not be given free and earned in every new area.

4. Out door gear is casual non important trash gear that you can get blindfolded playing with 2 broken hands and drowning in a pool. It should not even be as high as it is. It should he below normal dungeon gear.

You have too many opinions for someone that does not understand how things work.
No loot in lfr - saying this equals you as a tryharder so yea...most ppl dont tryhard in wow...they tryhard in life...u obviously tryhard in wow
Flying - for sure if u want to earn flying means that u have loads of time to spend in wow playing content + unlocking flying...this equals that you have loads of free time to play the game after u tryhard
Outdoor gear - people that dont tryhard and pay the sub should not get from outdoor areas.
U for sure are either a child or u failed to grow up mate and this is why developers should do w/e they want/can with their game...you cannot extract relevant feedback from a dude like this, he is just plain stupid...u cannot have a conversation with a dude like this.

Anyway, random dude from internet, im glad there are still stupid people like you so the rest of us can benefit from you not understandin your life around you.

[Raelbo]

Then you clearly need to go do some research. Google "Business judgement rule" and come back and say its hogwash.

Spoken like someone who has never done an iota of research before. Googling =/= research. Sure, Google is a powerful research tool, but its effectiveness is largely a function of the competence of the user.

So, rather than telling you to Google, which will likely lead to Google telling you what you want to hear (because that is how the Google algorithm works), I'll cite an article:

"There is a common belief that corporate directors have a legal duty to maximize corporate profits and “shareholder value” ... this belief is utterly false"

Here is another source that basically explains where this fallacy originated from:

"In the 1970s, a group of renowned free-market economists from the Chicago School of Economics perpetuated the notion that the sole purpose of a public corporation was to make money for its shareholders"

To be clear, this has never been law. It's basically dogma, started by an economist named Milton Friedman.

So there. I am back to reiterate: What you are saying is hogwash.

Its absolutely not. It by definition dictates that executives are acting in the interest of the shareholder which by definition means in the interest of making profits and not spending unnecessary money that eat into profits.

The Business Judgement rule actually exists to protect businesses from frivolous lawsuits by people who want to claim that a company is not acting in the best interests of the shareholder simply on the basis that they're not maximizing profits.

Just because a publicly listed company is legally obliged to act "in the interests of its shareholders" does not mean that it is required to maximize short term profits. In fact there is a good argument to be made that, more often than not, the interests of the shareholders are best served by a company acting in a manner that is geared towards long-term sustainability.

In the case of Blizzard, it means they're not going to give us extra content, and they're going to give us MVP. If they make an expansion with all the bells and whistles, and it costs them 2x the money to create, then the shareholders can legally argue that the executives arent acting in their interest and are wasting money. Its just a fact.

No, that's BS. And if you want to make such a claim, you need to find a citation pointing to this supposed law. Ironically the rule you pointed to is a rebuttal to your argument.

If indeed Blizzard are (as you seem to be claiming) taking decisions designed to drive short term profits at the expense of customer satisfaction, that is down to bad management, plain and simple. There is absolutely no legal precedent forcing them to do so. That being said, it is possible that someone there, like you, is acting on the misguided belief that such a law does exist.

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Im not saying theres a 1:1 ratio of followers/subscribers to agreement with views, but im saying there is a strong correlation. Thats a fact, thats not anecdotal, thats literally just a fact. Take any influencer on any platform, and you will find that their viewerbase skews overwhelmingly onto the same side as they do. The same can be said of politically leaning channels, music artists, anything. The people subscribed/following broadly will agree with what is being said, thats literally why they follow. They are subscribers to idealogy.

Even accepting this principle as true, it doesn't support your initial assertion that there was this "Pretty major flaw that was pointed out by hundreds of thousands of players for you know, months, and was ignored."

The fact is that you're essentially talking about 2 people pointing out something. And we're not even talking about bastions of objective and critical thinking here. These guys primary motivation is to get clicks and views, and the only thing they can be relied upon to do is ignore any facts or arguments that would get in the way of that objective.

As for the horde of mindless followers just nodding their heads in unison: You don't even know how many of those followers are even playing the game or have the analytical capacity to even make a meaningful contribution to the discussion. This is why they rely on people like youtubers to do their thinking for them in the first place.

This is just a classic case of Argument of Authority fallacy on your part.

[rrayy]

Sure, dont reply anymore if you dont want to read my entire post, where I literally addressed what you just said, so you either conveniently ignored it, or you're just snapping to conclusions and being a terrible participant in a discussion. Either way you missed what I said exactly to that, ill say it again.

Im not saying theres a 1:1 ratio of followers/subscribers to agreement with views, but im saying there is a strong correlation. Thats a fact, thats not anecdotal, thats literally just a fact. Take any influencer on any platform, and you will find that their viewerbase skews overwhelmingly onto the same side as they do. The same can be said of politically leaning channels, music artists, anything. The people subscribed/following broadly will agree with what is being said, thats literally why they follow. They are subscribers to idealogy.

Most people who hate these influencers, or completely disagree with them, dont follow them, thats just obvious.

I do have my own point of view thank you, and my point of view is what I just said above. You can look at any clips channel from any of these influencers, and view the comments and see how people agree/disagree with their statements. They are overwhelmingly in line with the influencer most of the time.

I know negativity sells, but that dosent change the fact that if a youtube channel is selling negativity, those who are buying it want to buy negativity, that shows that people are clicking, searching for those same subjects, if you dont take that seriously you're seriously missing the message. Do you really just think that all negativity online is fake?

I am not citing numbers and automatically claiming they agree with me - read my post. I clarified that not all would agree, but that a certain % of those viewers will inevitably agree, and even if that number is tiny, its still hundreds of thousands of people, which was the point of the original debate.

I am not ignoring it. I did nto have to go any furthebecause you tried to use Asmonclown to make your argument. That means you do not have one of your own. YOu are aslo misrepresenting his numbers because you are automatically claiming that # views= # that agrees with him. That is as disingenuous as it gets. People watch the video to see what he has to say. That in no way means they agree with him. They may watch the video to see him make a fool of himself and think he has stupid takes. And you are lying again because a tiny % is not hundreds of thousands.

Since all you are going to do is spin numbers to fit your narrative, we are done here. No point in indulging your bad faith discussion any further.

[Recovery]

A display of impecceble talent this is - how to first make sense to then, in just the next sentence, throw all the previous applied logic out of the window.

World of Warcraft always had a big focus on end game content. Ofcourse that has shifted over the years but ever since WotLK (200 and fcking 8 my brother, thats a long time ago) its stated officially - even think they mentioned some 90/10% content-in-focus ratio.

So.. dont know where you are getting at. You are correct - if WoW werent WoW, WoW would die(?).

I'm assuming you have some type of reading comprehension issue, so ill just leave it at that.

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This is where I'm at with WoW, except that I've likely subbed for the final time recently as I have no intentions of buying Dragonflight. I've moved on to STO and GW2 and I'm very happy with what those MMOs provide me, even though I've found that every MMO currently lacks any semblance of a social aspect. And forced grouping is most decidedly NOT a social experience, though most MMOs seem to think that grouping is what people want when they speak of a social experience in a game.

As for a game company paying attention to its customers or not ... pretty much every larger-than-small business in the entire world solicits survey responses constantly. You can't even grocery shop without them circling the link to fill out their survey for a chance at a $25 gift card. Every company wants as many customers as possible, unless the goal of those running the company is solely to fulfill their personal vision with little regard for finances. I don't know if Blizzard is actually doing what will get them the most money or just what they think will get them the most money or what will get them enough money while letting them play the way they personally prefer. All I know is that whatever they're doing is no longer working for me and well over another 100 million former players, as well.

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Why would anyone eat at McDonald's when there are so many better burger restaurants to go to?

Understanding that other people have other desires and preferences than your own is part of growing up, so I can only conclude that you are a child still if you haven't yet grasped this basic fact about humanity.

The sooner that you accept the fact that other people are not carbon copies of yourself and that your preferences are not the only valid preferences, the sooner you'll be able to understand why people do things that you "can't for the life of me understand" currently.

What an idiotic retort. Your analogies are actually dog. lol. This isnt the first one that literally just makes absolutely zero sense.

"Why would anyone eat at McDonald's when the menu offers nothing they enjoy eating?" - there, I fixed YET ANOTHER of your dogwater analogies.

So many people complaining about WoW's "lack of solo content" and complaining about not participating in or enjoying the group content. WHY play the game, when it doesn't offer what you enjoy in a game?

Wow is not a single player solo content game. It never has been. Never ever ever. Therefore, it's not choosing a game that does it better... It's choosing a game that does it period.

So again, I say... Why play a game that youre basically miserable playing because it doesnt interest you? Why complain on an unofficial forum about adding more of the content you like to the game instead of more of what you dont like?

I mean, honestly, do you go on Martha Stewart's forums and complain about how you eat at McDonald's, but they should put more tacos on their menu, because there arent enough tacos, and youre not really crazy about their burgers?

[rrayy]

Wow is not a single player solo content game. It never has been. Never ever ever. Therefore, it's not choosing a game that does it better... It's choosing a game that does it period.

So again, I say... Why play a game that youre basically miserable playing because it doesnt interest you? Why complain on an unofficial forum about adding more of the content you like to the game instead of more of what you dont like?

This is utterly false. It is a game that has had a lot of solo content in it from day 1. You cannot say a game that has a lot of solo content a game that is never solo content game. What it really is is a sandbox with all types of content. It is not a specific type of content game. It has group content, it has solo content.

[Recovery]

This is utterly false. It is a game that has had a lot of solo content in it from day 1. You cannot say a game that has a lot of solo content a game that is never solo content game. What it really is is a sandbox with all types of content. It is not a specific type of content game. It has group content, it has solo content.

I did not say that it does not have solo content sprinkled into it. It obviously does. But it is not and has never been a solo content game. It is in no form balanced toward solo play, it is in no way pushed toward solo play. Nothing of the sort. You level (which i guess can be considered solo) and then, with the exception of a few things sprinkled through out here and there (most of which are done for something in the end game group play anyway) you play for group content. Whether you Queue it, pug it, organize it, doesnt matter.. Its group content.

[Utrrabbit]

You have too many opinions for someone that does not understand how things work.
No loot in lfr - saying this equals you as a tryharder so yea...most ppl dont tryhard in wow...they tryhard in life...u obviously tryhard in wow
Flying - for sure if u want to earn flying means that u have loads of time to spend in wow playing content + unlocking flying...this equals that you have loads of free time to play the game after u tryhard
Outdoor gear - people that dont tryhard and pay the sub should not get from outdoor areas.
U for sure are either a child or u failed to grow up mate and this is why developers should do w/e they want/can with their game...you cannot extract relevant feedback from a dude like this, he is just plain stupid...u cannot have a conversation with a dude like this.

Anyway, random dude from internet, im glad there are still stupid people like you so the rest of us can benefit from you not understandin your life around you.

1. I play wow for 2hrs a week.
2. The only tryhard is you.

[Steelangel]

Apparently, the most recent Beta build actually removed this ability, unfortunately. I haven't logged in to the Beta to confirm myself just yet, but I was told it was the case by good authority.

They removed it to fix it and said quite clearly that it will be put back in once it's fixed.

You people make mountains out of anthills.

[Celement]

They were referring to the Conduit Energy system, not the Conduit system itself. The energy aspect was absolutely a friction point that Blizz put in for various reasons, and I'm fairly certain the feedback for that system was almost completely negative. To get to the heart of the matter, the main issue with players when it came to the energy system (as well as other aspects of the conduit system in general) was that the amount of friction was too high and the amount of aspects of the system that felt like they were designed to intentionally waste time.

Now, much of this got removed or addressed at a later date, but the overarching issue is that there was feedback about the issues with this system long before these went live. I can understand wanting to stick to your guns, but Blizz has had a habit of picking the weirdest issues where they get extremely stubborn for no good reason. I'll actually give them slack with the Covenant system to some degree (the aspect where it's a permanent change) because I believe that system could've worked with the caveat that they were balanced extremely well along with some other minor changes... but they failed to meet any of the criterion I would've set out to determine if the system was working well. Ultimately, even before the beta ended anyone who was testing could tell you that there were going to be huge issues with the Covenant system because they were not balanced at all (in terms of power, applicability, etc.), there was no extensive method of testing as the leveling process usually gave you either watered down versions or couldn't be tested properly in the content you'd like, etc. All this was insanely obvious to the players testing on the beta, but Blizz decided to die on that hill for a very long time. While I initially supported the permanent Covenants, when they showed late into the development cycle that they couldn't I was adamantly against it... especially when they tried to double down on a system that obviously wasn't working.

Perhaps saying Blizz is 'at war' isn't the best way to describe what's going on, but rather 'stubborn and blinded by their proximity to their own work'. It's not uncommon that a creator can be very biased to their own works because they're always so close to it that they fail to see the full picture or how the perspective changes for an outsider. While some decisions Blizz tends to be stubborn about come with a rationale that can make sense, it usually lacks or fails to account the perspective of a non-developer or player.

Classic example was BfA where Blizz completely stripped down all the classes to where many (if not all) classes felt pretty bad or underwhelming to play because there was so much missing from the classes/specs. The obvious reason for that change was that from a developer's point of view, it's a helluva lot easier to have a very bare bones baseline class to which you can reset every expansion as it makes your work a TON easier. However, if you're a non-developer or playing the game, it felt terrible to play until you got all the things that made your class/spec feel enjoyable or playable very late into the expansion. The end result is that the developer experience was made much easier at the expense of the player experience. While this is a very cut and dry example, there are tons of other examples of varying degrees and complexity that follow the same template of Blizz making decisions with specific reasoning that just won't jive with the players or their experience at all.

Ultimately, this is probably one of those design philosophy issues with Blizz, or at least how they prioritize them. While many players would likely prioritize the game being fun over everything else, Blizz doesn't always have that same prioritization... or in some cases, it feels like it wasn't even a consideration. Part of the reason why I'm not even going to play until the expansion after DF at the earliest is because despite all the superficial changes, I have not seen concrete evidence that Blizz has changed their priorities or philosophies for the long term. If your core is jacked up, no amount of superficial goodness will have a lasting effect.

I mostly agree with what you are saying but I have hopes for DF because so far they seem to of stripped out the gimmicks and have returned to classes being self contained. It is frustrating to see blizzard constantly making the same mistakes to then sheepishly abandon them later.

The amount of dead game modes is honestly staggering. Some get repurposed or parts of them are moved to other systems so it isnt a complete waste but there is a lot of dead content that could maybe of worked with polish.

Take torghast and islands. Utterly shit for their original purpose both fairly good and enjoyable for leveling.

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This is utterly false. It is a game that has had a lot of solo content in it from day 1. You cannot say a game that has a lot of solo content a game that is never solo content game. What it really is is a sandbox with all types of content. It is not a specific type of content game. It has group content, it has solo content.

I agree but why is there a determined effort to mix the rewards into one another?

Harder world content was tried and it failed in a multitude of forms. Rather then trying to merge the two why not allow more unique rewards? Something like a cosmetic set similar to the class hall?

Power can never rivial even the entry gear of group content because the two gameplay modes are so alien to each other they may as well be different games entirely but cosmetics are on the table.

[Aucald]

They removed it to fix it and said quite clearly that it will be put back in once it's fixed.

You people make mountains out of anthills.

"We people" don't really do anything, I was just informing someone that a prior fix had been reverted, and someone else replied several exchanges back that the developers are working on it.

I'm not personally fussed either way, so no real need to assume I'm even making a fuss, just sharing info from the Beta.

[Hambo94]

I am not ignoring it. I did nto have to go any furthebecause you tried to use Asmonclown to make your argument. That means you do not have one of your own. YOu are aslo misrepresenting his numbers because you are automatically claiming that # views= # that agrees with him. That is as disingenuous as it gets. People watch the video to see what he has to say. That in no way means they agree with him. They may watch the video to see him make a fool of himself and think he has stupid takes. And you are lying again because a tiny % is not hundreds of thousands.

Since all you are going to do is spin numbers to fit your narrative, we are done here. No point in indulging your bad faith discussion any further.

Damn, you really are quite passive aggressive arent you. Jesus.

Clearly me mentioning Asmongold has upset you, maybe you hate him for some reason and its triggered you I dont know, but you really really dont like me talking about these content creators haha.

I am not misrepresenting, I am presenting my opinion. By the way, this is easily researchable just with a google, and you will see that there is an extremely strong correlation between subscribers/followers, and agreement in views. Thats just a fact, like seriously,y ou can call it misrepresenting, you can call it anecdotal, its just a fact though. It takes one simple google to find a million articles/papers, even Youtube themselves talked about it in one of their panels recently I believe. If you dont want to believe that, thats a you problem, not a problem with the point im putting forth, so stop trying to paint my personal character as someone who is disingenuous. Ive explained my viewpoint, ive taken a healthy step back and clarified not all people agree that follow them, but claimed that a certain percentage inevitably do agree, and you're still claiming im just being disingenuous. I dont think you know the meaning of that word to be honest because theres no way you're trying to make this a personal problem with me right now.

Some people watch the videos to see what he has to say, that does not mean they agree with him indeed. But he has over 3 million followers, and gets hundreds of thousands of unique viewers per week who take their time, to share his time. Its obvious that a fair few of his followers will agree with him. I fail to see how you think that an influencer/public figures supports/followers isnt tied directly to agreeing to views on various topics. Nowhere have I stated that all of those people will agree with him, but when you have 3 million followers, I believe (and im clarifying this for the Nth time because you are repeatedly ignoring what im saying and trying to paint me in a different view) that a high enough percentage of those followers will agree with him on most topics, to create a sufficiently large enough pool of players that will number in the hundreds of thousands. Thats my opinion, if you dont agree. Whatever.

And you are lying again because a tiny % is not hundreds of thousands. Alright I think you're either frustrated or just plain upset at me for some weird reason. You are repeatedly calling me a liar, disingenuous, spinning numbers and now saying I am talking with bad faith. Stop replying to me thanks, Im not going to say what I think of the way you've spoken because im polite and mature enough to not rise to the way you talk to people.

Ill finish up with what I said originally. Those 3 content creators alone have a minimum of 3m followers/subscribers (taking into account shared/mutual followings) and I believe that at least 4% of those followers agree with the people they follow, which puts us over 100,000 unique individuals, who will agree with the sentiment shared by those influencers. So I stand by my original statement that hundreds of thousands of WoW players were against the way covenants were set up and would have voiced their opinions on various platforms at some point.

If you believe that less than 4% of those followers agree/will have shared their opinions somewhere, good for you. We are done here haha, its actually hilarious the way you replied looking back at it, we are done here!