Dragonflight rant - Where did the production value go ?

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Having no AP grind or things you HAVE to log in for other than just gearing is the best thing about Dragonflight

You can play other characters
You can play other games

WoW does not need to be something you have to play every single day

It's amazing how much Blizzard caters to people who don't want to play the game this expansion. It's almost like they learned nothing from WoD and why Legion saved the game. You have to wonder at what point an MMO stops being an MMO and becomes a raid logging simulator.

[Syegfryed]

Prob due to they wanting to release fast and low in budget

[Narzok]

i mean my main is about 10 in each renown and has done NONE of the brainless farms yet, so idk if the renown for questlines are that bad.

there are people who were Valdrakken 19 two or three days ago.
now imagine that gap increasing like that.

we might end up with people reaching 40 by the time others are at 20.
and of course the ones who reach 40 will talk about the quests potentially spoil it for others that are 3 steps back.

[crazyswayzee]

As someone that played classic the last few months i can say that i like the dragonflight approach alot. Its back to the roots. You have daylies, dungeons, raids, pvp and thats it. If you only want to raid then you can raidlog.
Leveling is super fast and smooth so altoholics are happy. Gearing in PVP is the best blizz developed since atleast legion (i liked the templates). Cant wait to just play 4 characters for pvp without any effort.
I did like the pact campaigns so far but i dont miss them here. I just enjoy that i dont feel forced to do anything i dont like. My evoker is full honor geared, i dont even care for getting upgrades since its useless in instanced pvp and now my next character will get through the same cycle.

So far i can say blizz you did a really good job, atleast for pvp players!

I cant say anything about balancing, this will be a major aspect for having a good time. Hopefully they are fast with little nerfs.

[Nachtigal]

I feel like the game sucks because I’m so addicted (to outrage) and desperate for attention that I look for anything to try and turn into a flaw so that others like me will acknowledge my existence.

BFA was okay, shadowlands was good, and dragonflight is spectacular. They all have downsides that we’d prefer not to deal with, but all games do that. The only difference is that with other games there’s not a massive community of haters to join and revel in the camaraderie, so I just move on and enjoy the game.

[Grimbold21]

For context - There were tons of posts at the beginning of Shadowlands and BFA (wasn't around for launch of legion) about how there wasn't enough to do after hitting max level...

There were also tons of posts about people feeling like there was too MUCH to do...

Who was right? The answer is probably all of them FOR THEIR PLAYSTYLE. I can't get to do everything I want to do right now in Dragonflight because I don't have all the time I used to have. So I have plenty to do in game. I'm having a blast.

The game is under no obligation to cater to people who make it their life's mission to consume content in the first week of release, nor should it, especially when those same people spend their extra time dishonestly complaining about how they have nothing to do.

[Puri]

I completely agree that there is hardly anything to do. We are literally in the first ID and I did take my time to level my char and got to 70 on saturday.
I've completed the quests in the zones (at least those I could find, no idea why they removed the quest marker from available quests from the world map), and the world quests. The weekly quest I had completed within 3h of hitting 70, and over the weekend we've completed all m+0s.
So yesterday I logged in, looked at the map, and there was nothing to do for me. Three days after hitting max level!? Sure I could fly around hoping to get a rare or some event, but I want to play a mmo and not some open world game where I have to fly blindly around and get myself something to do.

And currently I even still can get upgrades from the world content, I dare not even imagine how empty this is going to feel once I outgeared the world content. I actually hope there will be something to do besides raid/m+ logging that they have up their sleeves that is going to be unlocked with renown, or I don't think this expansion is for me.

[God Save The King]

There isn't as much to do at max level because the playerbase has been more or less whining for half a decade about so many chores to do at max level. Too many WQs a day, AP grinds, renown campaigns for power, farming conduits, Torghast, Maw, War Campaign, Mission tables, islands, warfronts, and so on. Basically every max level feature since Legion that provided some element of player power has been raked over the coals by the playerbase at large. To be clear not everyone complained about that. I personally did not, I enjoyed having a massive amount of stuff to do whenever I played, but the feel on wowhead/mmoc/official forums was pretty clear.

This is, largely, a return to the 'roots' of WoW, which was the whole premise of the expansion when launched. If you've played WotLK or TBC classic, the loop is largely familiar. Do your daily/weekly chores (which are not permanent chores like Torghast, you do them for a month or two and they're completed) and raidlog. Level alts if you want to play the game more than that. Everything else is cosmetic/optional.

I mean, this is pretty much what people asked for. If you don't like alts and you play a lot, you're going to quickly run out of things to do.

- - - Updated - - -

I've completed the quests in the zones (at least those I could find, no idea why they removed the quest marker from available quests from the world map), and the world quests.

Was that default? I assumed it was an addon that I had deleted with the fresh UI. I eventually got wholly + grail again and they're back.

- - - Updated - - -

we might end up with people reaching 40 by the time others are at 20.

I thought the cap was 25?

[Lolites]

We need more new dungeons. 4 new - 4 old is not acceptable.

there are 8 new...
and yes, m+ season will have 4/4, but given for now we cant run m+ but we can run only normal/hc/mythic, all 8 of which are new, this seems rather disingenuos...

as for m+, how is 8new 8 old over two seasons not acceptable? in previous expansion it was 8 new and...thats it... so its unacceptable to get MORE?!
personaly i hope they over time rework all (or most of) for m+, there were some amazing dungeons in every expansion

[klaps_05]

You can maybe make some criticism about some of the Dragonflight stuff, production value isnt one of it. It feels like they hired an entire company just to make outdoor content and professions, which are absolutely bonkers amazing.

[Delever]

In addition to the main legendary questline and the short intro questlines to patch zones, MoP had several different questlines to do after you reached level cap. The Tillers questline where you helped Farmer Yoon restore Sunsong Ranch, the Order of the Cloud Serpent where you found dragon eggs and raised the dragon, the Klaxxi questline where you found the other paragons, and so on. After MoP, the reputations didn't have any questlines. It was just Apexis Crystal dailies or world quest grinding, and the timegated main-questline (Khadgar/War questline). Legion did have the class questlines, but that required you to level grind a dozen different characters to see all of them, which just leaves Suramar. Shadowlands had the four Covenant questlines but that's not enough to sate a story player.

WTF am I even reading....

Claim: Every expansion after mop didnt have max level story lines
Proven: Wrong
>Reverts argument to questlines being behind time gates or grinds or needing to play different classes and somehow that makes them not exist?
Sure times gates are not ideal but the quest lines are there.

I dont even know anymore man... you re starting to approach Battlebeard levels of shitposting just to keep up your false arguments.

[McNeil]

I didn't think SL was low on production value until I entered the utterly laggfest that is Azure Span

[Nymrohd]

If all you care is player power then yeah there isn't much to do and that's what the players kept demanding for the past 5 years so . . .
If you want to experience the game though there isn't enough time in the day to see everything with Hunts, Siege, Soup, rares plus all the new achievements, the grinds available etc.

The one thing I will agree on is that the raid is somewhat small.

[Boddhi]

The glass is always half empty for some.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

There isn't as much to do at max level because the playerbase has been more or less whining for half a decade about so many chores to do at max level. Too many WQs a day, AP grinds, renown campaigns for power, farming conduits, Torghast, Maw, War Campaign, Mission tables, islands, warfronts, and so on. Basically every max level feature since Legion that provided some element of player power has been raked over the coals by the playerbase at large. To be clear not everyone complained about that. I personally did not, I enjoyed having a massive amount of stuff to do whenever I played, but the feel on wowhead/mmoc/official forums was pretty clear.

This is, largely, a return to the 'roots' of WoW, which was the whole premise of the expansion when launched. If you've played WotLK or TBC classic, the loop is largely familiar. Do your daily/weekly chores (which are not permanent chores like Torghast, you do them for a month or two and they're completed) and raidlog. Level alts if you want to play the game more than that. Everything else is cosmetic/optional.

I mean, this is pretty much what people asked for. If you don't like alts and you play a lot, you're going to quickly run out of things to do.

Why did they spend 2 years removing the fun out of every feature that made Legion good or straight up removing features when they didn't have to? When people complained that BfA and SL did not feel like Legion 2.0 but more like Legion 0.5 they weren't asking for Blizzard to give us WoD 2.0.

The return to the roots philosophy is trash when the roots are rotted. Legion was a step in the right direction but ever since then we have only been going backwards. It truly feels like the past 4 years we have been in a limbo sitting and waiting for a proper sequel to Legion. It wasn't BfA, it wasn't SL, it's not DF either. All of these feel like some side content and wasted time. I am not sure what kind of statistic led them to the conclusion that returning to pre-Legion days is the right decision when the last 3 pre-Legion expansions were bleeding players like crazy and almost killed the game.

[Narzok]

I thought the cap was 25?

i must admit, i did not count them all as i was at work when making the previous post.
current cap differs between them, centaurs and dragonscale having 25, tuskarr and valdrakken having 30, according to the guide.
additionally, the unlocked questlines are also not consistent.
last unlocked quest for each rep according a guide:

dragonscale: 24
Centaur: none
Tuskarr: 11
Valdrakken 19

admittedly not the highest requirements, but still high enough that you could be more than a weeks worth of reputation behind people who grind it out, leading to spoilers. and we do not know if the trend continues should they keep the system when they increase the renown cap

[Jowany]

It's so basic for me. I just get really frustated, because I can't reach out to people the way I want it.

So - this is the question:

Does DF feel dull because of BFA/SL design or activity level(remember, you always compare the last impression of the last expansion)? If so - does that make DF a worse game(reflection: did we come from a worse place and now we can't appreciate a better place?)

Have we ever witnessed for last the 18 years, where the entire game is on it's full potential 1 week after the release?

Start asking the right questions.

So far DF sounds like WotLK Classic, just with new zones and flying and few QoL things and with less class identity.

[Lochton]

Where are the max level questlines ? Apparently I am already done with half of the max level campaign, and one of those quests (the first Dragonscale Expedition one) was an introduction for the next one. It also featured a PTR prompt to be teleported to the quest objective and a merchant selling items from Ardenweald.

You are not even at all the max-level questlines. There are questlines within the renown and various stages, not to mention so many damn questlines spread across the island but they aren't the main line.

You would think the efforts that went into four covenant campaigns being funneled into a single experience would yield quite the amount of content, but this is what we get ? It's really not about the quality of the SL campaigns, or the fact that we had to wait a week between each chapters, but just the sheer amount of content it represented. Same for Torghast, I'm not debating whether it was good or not, but it was something, where did that production value go ?

Considering we have ongoing stories for the following:
Blue Dragonflight's storyline has not concluded.
Bronze Dragonflight's storyline has not concluded.
Green Dragonflight's storyline has not concluded.
Black Dragonflight's storyline has not concluded.
Primalist's storyline has not concluded.
Night Elf's storyline has not concluded.

Not to mention that we have two more content patches minimum.

Some of the production value went into things WoW needed badly, things to generate in the world, not just for instance hoppers.

The reputation grind is broken, my main got to level 12 on the centaur renown by doing essentially just the quests. Now if I level an alt and do the same amount of quests it will get them to renown 17 because of the rep buff you unlock at level 10. The 5 renown difference means weeks of world quests just to catch up to an alt because the catch-up mechanic has that much of an impact.

Who did your math? You lose your reputation bonus (100%) once you get to Renown 10 if your main is renown 12. If your main is renown 22, then from 1-10, you have 200%, from 10-20, you have 100%

On that topic, whose brilliant idea was it to have world quests refresh twice a week ? Now if you login daily you log into a continent that is dead and empty more times than not.

I believe that, according to forums such as the official and MMO-champion, was an invention created by us, the players, specifically the group that claimed that they felt forced to do it every day, and felt like they had to rush to do them all. Apparently, that wasn't such a popular wish, and in the near future, that might change, they have announced they will - just not yet.

The raid has seven bosses. Last time the opening patch had a seven bosses raid it was Emerald Nightmare. Karazhan and Nighthold were already announced and we also got a surprise three-bosses raid in between.
Eight apparently, but who's counting ?

Well, you were counting at first, and then found out you counted wrong, so, you were trying to count. Indeed, 8 raid bosses for the first tier, which is a very good start - on top of that, four world bosses as well.

Now I'm not a visionary, the raid could be very good and properly tuned. Let's just say doing m0 without a hitch at ilvl 320 doesn't exactly make me confident.

M0 has always been a joke though? It is in the scene of I want to try Mythic dungeons but rather not go into keys. And considering that Heroic dungeons can have groups struggling at 320-340 item level, I guess you were lucky?

Just like with Shadowlands, people were calling for a delay because beta feedback was that it needed more time. Except with Shadowlands it was about the expansion's systems. With Dragonflight it was about how unpolished it was. But here it is, I've never seen a WoW expansion with that many typos, visible technical IDs, visible spells and effects tagged [DNT], mining nodes under the floor or behind walls or flying in the air, UI issues even with all add-ons disabled, unfinished descriptions (check out the Tuskarr Dinghy toy), small hitches and other strange NPCs visible on the map (Agorithos 0 for those in the know).

Eh, Dragonflight isn't the most unpolished, I've experienced worse but it isn't perfect. As for the UI, it was already warned that it was something that badly wanted to get going so they could keep the development rolling. I have yet to experience any DNT tags since pre-patch, and no missing descriptions, as for typos, that is life, there are typos in all expansions, in large amounts, you just make a post telling them instead, and it'll be handled.

Honestly at this point I'm hoping that the rumored 10.0.5 can be a big surprise content-wise. Because right now it looks like the raid-logging + 1 weekly m+ lifestyle will start week 1 of season 1.

Sooo.. Like people have treated it for a long time then?

I am still more hopeful for this expansion than I was for Shadowlands, or for that matter, Warlords of Draenor. Most of my own issues come more in the tagging bug with groups, and said groups ruining content due to well, the tagging bug, only thinking about themselves, auto shooting whatever they can to keep it grey for other people, while other people repeat and do the same, or seethe and hope they die - or like me, make sure to wipe the farm groups with an overload of mobs. Other issues within the Assembly, again, massive farming groups make this area a lag fest. I'm missing aggressive sharding so much right now. I am loving the world quests having different flavors now, as well as Dragonflight and climbing included, and that is without more lighthearted ones as the cataloging ones.

The dungeons are all brilliant, some of them not with as brilliant players who attempt to turn every damn dungeon into a speed run - oh well, I just slow down and check things out. We're in the first release week, we aren't meant to rush, consume, or devour like the flying locust, and we know, hence we now have the mob spawn nerf but instead of understanding, we go, "FUN DETECTED, DURRRR". I'll never understand why we as gamers have gotten the mentality that MMORPGs gotta be rushed, gotta get it done, gotta go, gotta move, gotta clear, there's no finish line yet but we gotta get there now, go go go go. And then when we notice that we have consumed everything we can in the first week, we'll get people going, "OMG, I have nothing to do! What am I gonna do now? I only farmed 8 hours a day three days in a row and not that is gone", "OMG, game is dead, I'm lvl 67 and I've completed the main story!".

I'll never understand the views of such, I guess. Maybe due to having grown out of such a lifestyle with older expansions where it was more the massive grind for reputation and gold except we weren't as lucky to be done as fast.

I recognize that there are bugs and glitches, and I report them, I also understand from experience that I'll never experience a 100% smooth launch, even though we've had two previous smooth ones, I am not going to ever expect it, it will be a forever surprise to see, for it can be smooth in the start but there's always going to be follow-up issues due to player activity, or just generally things breaking because that is what can happen.

[Nymrohd]

there are people who were Valdrakken 19 two or three days ago.
now imagine that gap increasing like that.

we might end up with people reaching 40 by the time others are at 20.
and of course the ones who reach 40 will talk about the quests potentially spoil it for others that are 3 steps back.

Anything but hard timegating would allow that.

[Lochton]

I thought the cap was 25?

Currently, the cap is as follows:
Dragonscale Expedition: Renown 25.
Iskaara Tuskarr: Renown 30.
Maruuk Centaur: Renown 25.
Valdrakken Accord: Renown 30.