m+ tuning doesnt dissapoint

[Ludek]

This is a horrible response because you can use it to justify the exact thing you're trying to argue against.

I want people who don't like harder content to not touch the harder content and let people who want the harder content to be able to play their harder content. Casual players can enjoy all the casual content they want, I even want there to be more casual content for casual players. The issue occures when casual players start trying to replace harder content with easier content.

Asking for blizzard to make Shadowmoon Burial Grounds the default tuning for a mythic+ dungeon is the casual version of a toxic elitist who wants the game to be extremely hard. Both are unhealthy for the game because both are trying to impose their play styles on other players.

But isn't this the whole shtick of the M+ system? The infinite scaling? Even that Shadowmoon Burial Grounds will sooner or later change into trash one shooting people nightmare if those hardcore players push the key far enough, so it does not matter.

The 8 dungeons should have roughly the same level of tuning, but if they should all be on the Burial Grounds or Life Pools side - it's Blizzard to decide

[Shaqthefat]

I'm not complaining that hardcore players want hardcore games. I'm laughing at hardcore players who need to pretend that hardcores are a larger fraction of the player population than they are.

Asking Blizzard to make a game for me or I'll walk is perfectly fine. You can do that too. I encourage everyone to honestly represent to Blizzard what it is that's needed to keep them as a player. All our dollars get votes.

I don't think Blizzard has been counting those votes all that well, though.

Yeah there will be always be hardcore players living in an echo chamber that will get furious over the idea of easier content. Hardcore elitists, casual elitists, and mediocre elitists are the most unhealthy view points of any game. The hardcore and casual variants always try to force their content on other players through whatever arguments they can.

I'm not asking Blizz to make a game for me or I'll walk. I'm asking them to not remove the pieces of content I enjoy because someone else said they didn't like it or that it was too hard. Everyone should be arguing for that even if they don't enjoy the content, I certainly have even when it was for content I have zero interest in.

The ratio of casual to hardcore content could be 99/1 for all I care. I just want to be able to log on and push keys above a +20 level and mythic raid.

- - - Updated - - -

But isn't this the whole shtick of the M+ system? The infinite scaling? Even that Shadowmoon Burial Grounds will sooner or later change into trash one shooting people nightmare if those hardcore players push the key far enough, so it does not matter.

The 8 dungeons should have roughly the same level of tuning, but if they should all be on the Burial Grounds or Life Pools side - it's Blizzard to decide

M+ keys max out at 35 and even then there are dungeons that are way easier than others. Junkyards, necrotic wakes, and shadowmoons have always been preferable even at the max keystone level.

Having everything be tuned the same is inferior to have a variety in dungeon difficulty. Things will become really boring or really frustrating really fast depending on where that tuning falls. Its much safer to have a spread of difficulty

[BiggestNoob]

I'm not complaining that hardcore players want hardcore games. I'm laughing at hardcore players who need to pretend that hardcores are a larger fraction of the player population than they are.

Asking Blizzard to make a game for me or I'll walk is perfectly fine. You can do that too. I encourage everyone to honestly represent to Blizzard what it is that's needed to keep them as a player. All our dollars get votes.

I don't think Blizzard has been counting those votes all that well, though.

I don't know why you randomly pop up in a M+ discussion to make comments like this. Do you by chance stop by Liquid and Echo Discords to say most people don't raid mythic?

[Woobels]

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ard-games.aspx



The article also states that the data shows there is massive churn out after a typical player wipes four times on a boss.

In short, while games like Dark Souls II and Bloodborne are spearheading this renaissance, it's not likely that their popularity will ever achieve the same level as titles like Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto, because their fan base is composed of only a portion of the overall gaming market.

This is an article from 2014 where the conclusion is proven wrong by Elden Ring selling an incredible amount of copies just last year. Not everyone likes difficult games, plenty of people do.

[Azharok]

This is an article from 2014 where the conclusion is proven wrong by Elden Ring selling an incredible amount of copies just last year. Not everyone likes difficult games, plenty of people do.

Elden Ring is also one of the easier From Software games. I doubt the people that enjoyed Elden Ring would enjoy other titles from that same developper.

[Osmeric]

This is an article from 2014 where the conclusion is proven wrong by Elden Ring selling an incredible amount of copies just last year. Not everyone likes difficult games, plenty of people do.

Yes, Elden Ring, which has globally sold, what, 27 million copies? When there are 200+ M people in the US alone who play video/computer games.

Also, I'm sure human nature must have changed fundamentally in the last nine years. Because that's what human nature does, right?

[Shaqthefat]

Yes, Elden Ring, which has globally sold, what, 27 million copies? When there are 200+ M people in the US alone who play video/computer games.

Also, I'm sure human nature must have changed fundamentally in the last nine years. Because that's what human nature does, right?

Stardew valley, a very casual game and highly regarded game, has only sold 20 million. Operating under your logic that would mean people aren't interested in casual games right?


Yes, human nature can change fundamentally. Not even 200 years ago you were not morally wrong to shoot someone who had insulted you. There was a time where slavery was globally seen as a normal thing. There was a time where slaughtering people that were not your own was seen as a normal thing. Even psychologically there was a time when our id was dominate over ego and superego didn't even exist.

[Rageonit]

But isn't this the whole shtick of the M+ system? The infinite scaling? Even that Shadowmoon Burial Grounds will sooner or later change into trash one shooting people nightmare if those hardcore players push the key far enough, so it does not matter.

SBG's lower difficulty is not down to scaling (or at least not mainly); it's down to the dungeon being very basic. Difficulty of scaling and difficulty of mechanics are two very different things; and people who complain about Nokhud or RLP do so, because those dungeons are more challenging mechanically. If people do mechanics well, Nokhud and RLP are as doable as SBG. Being one shotted due to scaling is not a fun mechanic and does not make it interesting for people who like challenge. I know people who like easy loot will disagree, but SBG is a bad, boring dungeon.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Yes, Elden Ring, which has globally sold, what, 27 million copies? When there are 200+ M people in the US alone who play video/computer games.

Also, I'm sure human nature must have changed fundamentally in the last nine years. Because that's what human nature does, right?

The actual playthrough rate on that game is probably what, 10% lol

(true of most games)

[brynhildrprot]

They had weekends upon weekends of testing during beta. This is just negligence. Our healer was outputting 40k HPS during some boss fights on a +8 tyrannical and well geared people were still getting two shot by the most basic (unavoidable) boss mechanics through defensives and cooldowns. It's absurd.

We aren't expecting to clear 15s in 390 gear, but a +8? Come on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5sznxdIOFQ

This thread has aged poorly

[Xath]

higher numbers adds more mechanics

eg as the post above yours mentions, until you reach a really high key level, the water elementals' surge in TJS shouldn't get LOSed because you take no damage from it and you lose damage when you do that so it's a stupid thing to do. add enough numbers that it kills you and you have to LOS it which means it goes from not existing as a mechanic to existing. same with most the other abilities in most dungeons. until they start killing you, you just play as if they aren't there and that is a better strategy than playing as if they are. the mechanics change when you have to play as if they exist.

No they don't they just make you actually do the mechanics, Also KSM isn't to that level that's only 2k which is like all 14s. Mechanics outside kicks really don't start getting forced til 18ish. Now Hero it's forced at.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people who play games don't like difficult content, parties required or not.

Weird how popular the souls like genre is then

[Osmeric]

Weird how popular the souls like genre is then

They've sold to, never mind played or finished by, a small fraction of people who play video/computer games.

They are not evidence against my assertion.

[Boricha]

I've been trying to farm the ring from CoS. Just did a +13 where the healer randomly went offline after the first boss, and we were still able to clear the dungeon within time with no deaths. It really blew me away how doable the key still was with no healer, albeit it's not that high of a key level. I don't think that's a good thing.

[Lahis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5sznxdIOFQ

This thread has aged poorly

Prot Warriors are just "balanced".

[Woobels]

Prot Warriors are just "balanced".

There's no prot warrior in that video. Still a poor example because the rest of Naowh's team is about 700x as good as the average pug (myself included) so it doesn't really say much about tuning.

[brynhildrprot]

There's no prot warrior in that video. Still a poor example because the rest of Naowh's team is about 700x as good as the average pug (myself included) so it doesn't really say much about tuning.

Yes but someone said you need 400ilvl gear for 15s

[Woobels]

Yes but someone said you need 400ilvl gear for 15s

Most average players probably want a group ilvl around that number for 15s to be comfortable yeah.

[Relapses]

Prot Warriors are just "balanced".

lol, you didn't even click the video. It's an undergeared DK tank being healed by an undergeared H Pal.

[Loveliest]

Did a level 14 Academy with 3 people who have 3 kills in mythic, average IO around 2k and we wiped on the bird boss 3 times. Shit's just outlandishly unbalanced right now and the current state of the game will kill the expansion, zero doubt in my mind.

Bird is buggy. One time, it just would not change phases. Another time, we had two phases at the same time. Buggiest expansion to date.

[Xath]

They've sold to, never mind played or finished by, a small fraction of people who play video/computer games.

They are not evidence against my assertion.

They are though they are more popular than games like Stardew that is the ultimate in casual gameplay.