Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Fugus]

@Doctor Amadeus
Since you skipped the meat of what I posted, I will repeat it for you with that snippet removed.

That was the claim by what at this point has to be assumed are honorable law enforcement officers.

Why would you assume that when they have body cameras on all of them and videos mounted in their cars recording all this?

And one of the main reasons why they are required to have all these recordings now is expressly BECAUSE many/most of them aren't honorable and can't be trusted to police themselves due to events like this.

So again,

You claim they were driving recklessly, do you have any proof of that? Because the police department itself has no proof of that and these guys claims carry as much weight as Trumps claims on anything.

Quite literally you are ignoring the cameras on the police and the vehicles recording everything based on the words of many whom are forced to have those recordings because a substantial percentage of them had proven themselves dishonorable and the entire force has proven themselves morally and ethically incapable of policing their own unless forced to.

[Doctor Amadeus]

This isn't an abstraction or logic puzzle or theoretical problem.

You can literally watch cops beat this man to death on video.

I am not defending any of that in any way.

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Motherfucker, the cops were fired and charged with murder and kidnapping with like a month of investigation, which is damn near unprecedented. I don't know how much more black and white it could be.

Why are you still victim blaming and bootlicking when the rest of the department is saying these pigs committed murder? Why are you loyal to the murderous cops instead of the rest of the department?

You're trying to justify an extrajudicial murder. You're sick.

I don't care if he was driving erratically, the punishment for driving erratically isn't getting beaten to death by five armed men. And since he wasn't found guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers, he is innocent. That means they beat an innocent man to death.

Nope, going by what I seen in the first video, as for you not caring about someone driving erratically I guess you don't know how many people are killed because of erratic driving, especially children on residential streets.

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@Doctor Amadeus
Since you skipped the meat of what I posted, I will repeat it for you with that snippet removed.



Why would you assume that when they have body cameras on all of them and videos mounted in their cars recording all this?

And one of the main reasons why they are required to have all these recordings now is expressly BECAUSE many/most of them aren't honorable and can't be trusted to police themselves due to events like this.

So again,



Quite literally you are ignoring the cameras on the police and the vehicles recording everything based on the words of many whom are forced to have those recordings because a substantial percentage of them had proven themselves dishonorable and the entire force has proven themselves morally and ethically incapable of policing their own unless forced to.

I wouldn't assume body cameras on cops is because they aren't honorable. I would assume body cameras are on cops to clarify incidents where the publics is entitled to all available information about police activity.

Otherwise cops wouldn't be allowed to turn off cameras or mute them

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Life Goal: Find someone to look at me the way Mall Cop looks at "Honorable Law Enforcement Officers".

[Fugus]

I wouldn't assume body cameras on cops is because they aren't honorable. I would assume body cameras are on cops to clarify incidents where the publics is entitled to all available information about police activity.

Otherwise cops wouldn't be allowed to turn off cameras or mute them

Which they aren't allowed to do when dealing on duty and dealing with people in any capacity and these officers not knowing how they work is what has got plenty of them caught lying and/or planting evidence.

So again, you have the camera footage from all these guys, you have the camera footage on the dashes of every police car involved showing every bit of this. None of this shows reckless driving according to the police department itself.

So, what evidence of reckless driving do you have?

Because claims of reckless driving from a police officer without that evidence given the amount of abuses their profession have done should carry no more weight than if I called you a pedophile. Regardless of if I am honest or not, you don't know if I am and their entire profession has proven that they largely aren't a substantial part of the time. So again....

Why do you trust the words of anyone over the physical evidence that proves the contrary?

Words of advice, when you say "Officer's say" you need to replace it with "Officer's CLAIM".

[Kathranis]

Nope, going by what I seen in the first video, as for you not caring about someone driving erratically I guess you don't know how many people are killed because of erratic driving, especially children on residential streets.

My uncle and nephew were both killed by drunk drivers.

The punishment for erratic driving still isn't death. Neither for resisting arrest.

If a cop can't affect an arrest on a suspect, compliant or otherwise, without killing them before they can be tried in a court of law, they should not be allowed to be fucking cops. These cops were not in any danger. There were six of them there -- of course the white cop on the scene was not charged with any crime. The suspect, one guy, was sober, unarmed, and pinned on the ground.

They gave unclear, contradictory orders. They failed to de-escalate. They tazed him while he was trying to comply. He ran, obviously. Then they caught him and beat him fatally. Then they stood around while he bled out and casually talked about it, making up excuses, rather than getting him life saving medical care.

The police chief also said there wasn't enough evidence to indicate he was even driving recklessly. So fuck you and your bullshit justification of a man being beaten to death.


We need to hold cops to a higher standard. They don't deserve our respect just for wearing a badge, not when it's so easy to get one. Most of them are dumb fucking dipshits who barely graduated high school. Out of shape, stupid, violent. High rate of domestic abuse, substance abuse.

There is no reason to respect these people.

Least of all a bunch of murderous scumbags like these five.

[Edge-]

Not defending them, pointing out that there are reasons for what we are seeing, and stating all of that isn't clear even if I disagree with the outcome or the actions of these cops.

Ah right, there are reasons that those murderers beat this man to death with their bare hands.

Obviously, how could I have been so foolish that they did it for no reason at all. There was probably a reason, you're right.

Still you though, defending those cops.

[Fugus]

To me, the best argument in favor of the cops is that he could have been more cooperative - instead of saying "yes, sir" he is engaging them and somewhat reluctantly listening while telling them what he thinks about what they are doing.

But cops are trained to deal with criminals and shouldn't expect that level of compliance - the norm is going to be people who are going to push the envelope, be passive aggressive, whatever. I didn't see anything on the video that comes close to active resistance or that is even beyond moderately ordinary behavior for a person being arrested that would justify the level of force they used. To me the actions at the first stop are enough to justify firing the cops.

The second interaction - duh. Beating a defenseless man to death, no defense for it. And yup, I'm a guy who normally is more aligned with the cops than most people on here.

The thing is, look at that first video. Look at when they have him on the ground. He is laying on his right side, his back is against the car, an officer then grabs his right arm and pins it while telling him to roll onto his stomach. He physically is incapable of following the order because the officers themselves are preventing him from following it.

And, officer or not, you have 5 people running up on you screaming like that, you are going to be more cautious about them and hesitant to turn your back to them.

These aren't recruits jumping to orders from a drill sergeant, this was a person getting completely over the top treatment from the start and being largely confused about what is going on and what they did.

And then they started attacking him while he was not fighting back or anything which ended up having him flee for his life.

If there is any justice, these guys will be put in general population as their family leaves them, children and all, and by the end of their first month their asses look like Goatse

[Edge-]

To me, the best argument in favor of the cops is that he could have been more cooperative - instead of saying "yes, sir" he is engaging them and somewhat reluctantly listening while telling them what he thinks about what they are doing.

Irrelevant. You should not have to "be nice" to an officer to not have the officer assault or murder you. And given statistics and recent happenings, any person of color, especially Black, has very good reason to be reluctant and worried about interacting with law enforcement.

But cops are trained to deal with criminals and shouldn't expect that level of compliance - the norm is going to be people who are going to push the envelope, be passive aggressive, whatever.

They should also be trained to deal with normal, everyday people going about their business and not treating every individual they interact with as a dangerous criminal. Because that's how you pointlessly escalate situations.

That's a failure of training, specifically much of the "Warrior Training" that officers choose to go through because they wish they could have hacked it in the army where they might actually be able to kill people legally.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Ah right, there are reasons that those murderers beat this man to death with their bare hands.

Obviously, how could I have been so foolish that they did it for no reason at all. There was probably a reason, you're right.

Still you though, defending those cops.

This is just getting started I’m sure more information will come out. Again I’m not defending the cops but I think race might take a back seat this time since the victims and cops are the same race.

So is it abuse of authority I don’t know. And just because there is a reason doesn’t mean the cops were justified.

I’ll wait for the process to work its way out before I decide for myself.

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Irrelevant. You should not have to "be nice" to an officer to not have the officer assault or murder you. And given statistics and recent happenings, any person of color, especially Black, has very good reason to be reluctant and worried about interacting with law enforcement.



They should also be trained to deal with normal, everyday people going about their business and not treating every individual they interact with as a dangerous criminal. Because that's how you pointlessly escalate situations.

I agree with the bold 100%. So often people confuse others being nice enough with being wrong. However cops don’t have to be nice either.

[KayossZero]

Ok. Well I am going by the officers claim, whether there is video of it is kind of irrelevant. If a cop stops you, then you pull over and comply with instructions.

You have said some incredible stupid fucking things in the past but this takes the cake. You claim to be a leftwing but "pro gun" individual, and you have a nice #ANTIFA sig that explains your love of violence and fantasies of killing unarmed home intruders to back it up.

But this? LOL, I hope you change your Avatar to a thin blue line flag; you would be doing a service for newer members here virtue signaling to them that you're a blatant walking contradiction of a supposed *enlightened* leftist.

[jonnysensible]

this was the original statement about the incident



'u GoT tO gIvE thE HoNOrAblE cOps tHe bEnefIt oF thE DoubT'

[Fugus]

You have said some incredible stupid fucking things in the past but this takes the cake. You claim to be a leftwing but "pro gun" individual, and you have a nice #ANTIFA sig that explains your love of violence and fantasies of killing unarmed home intruders to back it up.

But this? LOL, I hope you change your Avatar to a thin blue line flag; you would be doing a service for newer members here virtue signaling to them that you're a blatant walking contradiction of a supposed *enlightened* leftist.

Still waiting for him to answer why he believes the officers that he was driving recklessly instead of the body camera footage and the dash camera footage when the police department itself says they have no evidence of reckless driving on the part of the other guy.

Why he calls police honorable when a good portion of the reason why they have those cameras is because they have proven themselves dishonorable for a sizable portion of them and their entire field has proven unwilling and unable to police themselves without otherwise and even with them not to a satisfactory level.

Them saying he was driving recklessly should carry as much weight as me accusing him of being a pedophile. Without evidence, both claims are worthless. Even if I were to make a serious claim of that, you guys don't know who I am or how honest/dishonest I am while the people he is talking about have a long history proving how dishonest many of them are and just how quickly the rest will typically circle the wagons to protect them the few times they can be called out for it.

[Edge-]

this was the original statement about the incident



'u GoT tO gIvE thE HoNOrAblE cOps tHe bEnefIt oF thE DoubT'

"the suspect was ultimately apprehended."

Man, media really need to just never ever print the official police statements ever again. Like, ever.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You have said some incredible stupid fucking things in the past but this takes the cake. You claim to be a leftwing but "pro gun" individual, and you have a nice #ANTIFA sig that explains your love of violence and fantasies of killing unarmed home intruders to back it up.

But this? LOL, I hope you change your Avatar to a thin blue line flag; you would be doing a service for newer members here virtue signaling to them that you're a blatant walking contradiction of a supposed *enlightened* leftist.

I don’t hate cops.

I hate racism.

I’m a liberal and Democrat who believes in the 2A amendment for protection.

I also hate criminals especially those that break in peoples homes.

[Fugus]

I don’t hate cops.

I hate racism.

I’m a liberal and Democrat who believes in the 2A amendment for protection.

I also hate criminals especially those that break in peoples homes.

You never answered my question

I wouldn't assume body cameras on cops is because they aren't honorable. I would assume body cameras are on cops to clarify incidents where the publics is entitled to all available information about police activity.

Otherwise cops wouldn't be allowed to turn off cameras or mute them

Which they aren't allowed to do when dealing on duty and dealing with people in any capacity and these officers not knowing how they work is what has got plenty of them caught lying and/or planting evidence.

So again, you have the camera footage from all these guys, you have the camera footage on the dashes of every police car involved showing every bit of this. None of this shows reckless driving according to the police department itself.

So, what evidence of reckless driving do you have?

Because claims of reckless driving from a police officer without that evidence given the amount of abuses their profession have done should carry no more weight than if I called you a pedophile. Regardless of if I am honest or not, you don't know if I am and their entire profession has proven that they largely aren't a substantial part of the time. So again....

Why do you trust the words of anyone over the physical evidence that proves the contrary?

Words of advice, when you say "Officer's say" you need to replace it with "Officer's CLAIM".

[Endus]

No if the person isn't complying then arrest his ass, if you are breaking the law then you should be punished.

Noncompliance with unlawful orders is not illegal. You absolutely ridiculous person.

Why would a cop have to be assumed to be honorable?

I don't know for the same reason an airline pilot. Because you need someone to fly the fucking plane

Yeah, they don't presume airline pilots are "honorable", either. Have you heard of things called "codes of ethics"? https://www.alpa.org/en/about-alpa/w...code-of-ethics

There's one for pilots. They exist precisely because ethical conduct can't be presumed and there needs to be official standards professionals can be held to.

There is no reason whatsoever to assume cops are "honorable". That's bootlicking nonsense.

Not defending them, pointing out that there are reasons for what we are seeing, and stating all of that isn't clear even if I disagree with the outcome or the actions of these cops.

That's literally defending them. The only "reasons" are sadism and racism. They felt they could kill a dude for the fun of it. That's it.

Right so you would like less rights for cops than a citizen?

Well I am not going to agree with you on that.

In what world are citizens assumed to be decent, honorable people? Cops sure don't make such assumptions. So no, you're intentionally misrepesenting my position.

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To me, the best argument in favor of the cops is that he could have been more cooperative - instead of saying "yes, sir" he is engaging them and somewhat reluctantly listening while telling them what he thinks about what they are doing.

You should be able to punctuate every single sentence uttered to a cop talking to you with "you fascist dogfucking pig", and the cop should have to smile and take it. If they're going to use force to stop that, they're abusing their authority and committing a violent crime. If they don't like it, they can fuck off and leave you alone. They're not entitled to politeness. Just compliance, with lawful orders, and "stop being mean to me" is not a lawful order.

Edit: I'm not saying you should do this, or that cops deserve it, but it's absolutely your legal right to do so and cops should have to sit there and take it with a smile on their faces. If they won't, they're unfit.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You never answered my question



Which they aren't allowed to do when dealing on duty and dealing with people in any capacity and these officers not knowing how they work is what has got plenty of them caught lying and/or planting evidence.

So again, you have the camera footage from all these guys, you have the camera footage on the dashes of every police car involved showing every bit of this. None of this shows reckless driving according to the police department itself.

So, what evidence of reckless driving do you have?

Because claims of reckless driving from a police officer without that evidence given the amount of abuses their profession have done should carry no more weight than if I called you a pedophile. Regardless of if I am honest or not, you don't know if I am and their entire profession has proven that they largely aren't a substantial part of the time. So again....

Why do you trust the words of anyone over the physical evidence that proves the contrary?

Words of advice, when you say "Officer's say" you need to replace it with "Officer's CLAIM".

I’m going by the word of cops reported n the news. I’ll wait for more evidence to determine if they are telling the Truth. Just as I assume the dead guy was murdered because he wasn’t given the chance for a day in court. I’m being as even handed with judgement on both ends.

[Kathranis]

I don’t hate cops.

I hate racism.

I’m a liberal and Democrat who believes in the 2A amendment for protection.

I also hate criminals especially those that break in peoples homes.

How do you feel about no-knock warrants?

[Fugus]

I’m going by the word of cops reported n the news. I’ll wait for more evidence to determine if they are telling the Truth. Just as I assume the dead guy was murdered because he wasn’t given the chance for a day in court. I’m being as even handed with judgement on both ends.

Why are you putting the words of the cops ahead of their own body camera footage, dashboard footage and their own police department refuting them?
There is no need to assume the guy was murdered, we have the camera evidence, medical evidence and dead body to prove it.

What else are you asking for?

[Endus]

I’m going by the word of cops reported n the news. I’ll wait for more evidence to determine if they are telling the Truth. Just as I assume the dead guy was murdered because he wasn’t given the chance for a day in court. I’m being as even handed with judgement on both ends.

The two statements in bold directly contradict each other.