So what's up with the timeline in DF exactly re: centaur, tuskarr, primalists

[Malkiah]

so i was idly daydreaming today and my brain started re-writing the DF expansion - lore, zone layout, content within the zones, etc - to try and make it all less stupid and boring, and i got to thinking about the tuskarr and the centaur.

ok so the dracthyr were put to sleep 15-20 thousand years ago, and then the dragon isles were put into stealth mode 10,000 years ago.
the DF launch cinematic has scenes depicting the whole island being dormant, implying that plants aren't growing and wildlife isn't.... wildlifing, etc.
and unless i'm mistaken, the timetable is that the islands 'wake up' and then the dragons swoop in like immediately and we the players are then there within a few days/weeks, right?

so what the hell is up with the centaur, tuskarr, drakonoid, and primalists?
the centaur seem to have this whole society and culture going, so were they living in a dead land for the last 10,000 years or did they also just wake up a few weeks ago?
ditto the tuskarr.
how the hell do the primalists already have multiple tauren (or any other race from the mainlands) in their numbers?

is there any sort of explanation in game or out of game for this, or is it just plot holes?

[Kyux]

If I had to make up a answer:
- Tauren etc were already part of the Primalists, but the Primalists weren't on the Dragon Isles. They all came over once the Isles woke up and were perhaps the first there.
- Tuskarr and Centaur were there just running in place for 10,000 years not progressing or leaving the Isles.
- Same for Drakonid. They were all chilling there waiting or going about their lives without making any progress.

[Malkiah]

If I had to make up a answer:
- Tauren etc were already part of the Primalists, but the Primalists weren't on the Dragon Isles. They all came over once the Isles woke up and were perhaps the first there.

it's MMO-C and i suspect that tone is usually assumed to be combative, so i want to preface this by saying i'm not being a jerk, just engaging with the idea.

wouldn't that... not make any sense?
the primalists are those who rejected the gift on dragons from the titans and that war happened 20,000 years ago.
then 10,000 years went by and the great sundering happened, and the Aspects all fucked off and put the dragon isles in power save mode.
how would the primalists exist outside of the isles if it's been 10,000 years since anything happened with them, and the last time something did happen it was on an island in a part of the world nobody has ever been to, and nobody has been into or out of since then?

[Omians]

I think its more that the primalist group themselves consisted of just the protodrakes back then and were disbanded at the incarnets defeat.

The current members i think are former twilight hammer cultists following a different cult following.

And if i also had to guess grimtotem probably heard the call of the elementals that woke back up on the dragon isles and he learned of then freed raszageth

[Aucald]

I don't think the Dragon Isles were in any kind of extended stasis or a time-lock of some kind - they were just hidden and made inaccessible by whatever it was at Tyrhold that had been activated following the War of the Ancients. So the various tuskarr tribes and centaur clans were stuck on the isles themselves, but they were otherwise fine to live their lives and expand their culture, same for the Drakonid who essentially took over locations like Valdrakken as their own, and were rather put out when the Aspects and their Dragonflights returned, pushing them out of what had become their home and expecting them to hop to as if thousands of years hadn't passed in the interim.

[Gref]

if somebody could explain me the primalists, like how they originated? how they are able to have all those races in their ranks?
Twilights hammer I can totally understand all the races within them. But primalists? they came out of nowhere with such huge numbers and from all races.

[Aucald]

if somebody could explain me the primalists, like how they originated? how they are able to have all those races in their ranks?
Twilights hammer I can totally understand all the races within them. But primalists? they came out of nowhere with such huge numbers and from all races.

I assume that the bulk of the Primalists are the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer, shiftless and directionless faced with the deaths of their Old God masters, as well as a wide cross-sampling of other disenfranchised and disaffected sections of the populace. Koroleth, the main Primalist antagonist in Ohn'ahra, appears to be a survivor of Teldrassil based on her burnt face. I think the Twilight's Hammer went on something of a recruitment drive after the Fourth War and our sojourn to the Shadowlands, banking on the existence of many people traumatized by war, disillusioned by loss, and otherwise vulnerable to their messaging. All that was needed was a sign or signal, which the opening of the Dragon Isles provided. Kurog also had to have been told by someone or something about the existence of Raszageth's prison in order to know to go there, and how to free her from it - so presumably there is someone knowledgeable directing the Primalists to some ultimate goal.

[Naruto is stooopid]

This is for time travel...but the message here works with floating timelines as well.


--- snip ---

[Hobbidaggy]

I assume that the bulk of the Primalists are the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer, shiftless and directionless faced with the deaths of their Old God masters, as well as a wide cross-sampling of other disenfranchised and disaffected sections of the populace. Koroleth, the main Primalist antagonist in Ohn'ahra, appears to be a survivor of Teldrassil based on her burnt face. I think the Twilight's Hammer went on something of a recruitment drive after the Fourth War and our sojourn to the Shadowlands, banking on the existence of many people traumatized by war, disillusioned by loss, and otherwise vulnerable to their messaging. All that was needed was a sign or signal, which the opening of the Dragon Isles provided. Kurog also had to have been told by someone or something about the existence of Raszageth's prison in order to know to go there, and how to free her from it - so presumably there is someone knowledgeable directing the Primalists to some ultimate goal.

I dare say since we have the Valdrakken quests where we spy on dragons who are working with the primalists, that there are a number of Dragonkin who have been working for the primalists this whole time and waiting for the day of their return. Once the Isles opened up one of these spoke to the twilights hammer and the word got around and then he went there and freed her since she was probably the easiest to free at the time and she would free the others once she was out and about.

The twilights hammer are even on the isles with the Worldbreakers having an Ogre in disguise as a dragonkin and various Twilights Hammer devices in the caves there

[loras]

so i was idly daydreaming today and my brain started re-writing the DF expansion - lore, zone layout, content within the zones, etc - to try and make it all less stupid and boring, and i got to thinking about the tuskarr and the centaur.

ok so the dracthyr were put to sleep 15-20 thousand years ago, and then the dragon isles were put into stealth mode 10,000 years ago.
the DF launch cinematic has scenes depicting the whole island being dormant, implying that plants aren't growing and wildlife isn't.... wildlifing, etc.
and unless i'm mistaken, the timetable is that the islands 'wake up' and then the dragons swoop in like immediately and we the players are then there within a few days/weeks, right?

so what the hell is up with the centaur, tuskarr, drakonoid, and primalists?
the centaur seem to have this whole society and culture going, so were they living in a dead land for the last 10,000 years or did they also just wake up a few weeks ago?
ditto the tuskarr.
how the hell do the primalists already have multiple tauren (or any other race from the mainlands) in their numbers?

is there any sort of explanation in game or out of game for this, or is it just plot holes?

From what i understand they were stranded on the island when it got stealthed, well, everyone apart from us (dragons included) and the primalists.

The land awakening refers to the elements manifesting very thoroughly again, as they apparantly once did before under some controlled influence of Tyrhold's.

Drakonids mention that they have lived to see the dragons return, tuskarr are constantly in wonder about what sort of creature you are (since presumably they only know the local wildlife, gnolls, drakonids and centaurs).

The djaradin, as quasi elementals, were apparantly also subdued when the land went to slumber.

[Gref]

I assume that the bulk of the Primalists are the remnants of the Twilight's Hammer, shiftless and directionless faced with the deaths of their Old God masters, as well as a wide cross-sampling of other disenfranchised and disaffected sections of the populace. Koroleth, the main Primalist antagonist in Ohn'ahra, appears to be a survivor of Teldrassil based on her burnt face. I think the Twilight's Hammer went on something of a recruitment drive after the Fourth War and our sojourn to the Shadowlands, banking on the existence of many people traumatized by war, disillusioned by loss, and otherwise vulnerable to their messaging. All that was needed was a sign or signal, which the opening of the Dragon Isles provided. Kurog also had to have been told by someone or something about the existence of Raszageth's prison in order to know to go there, and how to free her from it - so presumably there is someone knowledgeable directing the Primalists to some ultimate goal.

hmmmm I can see it but I feel like there is too much of a gap. And if primalists are twilight cultists, then why in one quest near black dragon dailies, inside a cave, I did a quest, attack a draconoid and it turn into a twilight hammer ogre, saying; I am not the last or I wont be the last something around those lines. If primalists are twilight, then why the illusion?

[Rockefellah]

I think its more that the primalist group themselves consisted of just the protodrakes back then and were disbanded at the incarnets defeat.

The current members i think are former twilight hammer cultists following a different cult following.

And if i also had to guess grimtotem probably heard the call of the elementals that woke back up on the dragon isles and he learned of then freed raszageth

I had interpreted it indeed as left overs of the Twilight Hammer. Anti order, anti titan, pro elemental have probably been around since ever. When the Orc invasion brought TH to azeroth they quickly joined those ranks, after the defeat in cata they would have abandoned TH, but still look for an anti order, anti titan, pro elemental group to future their agenda.

[Nymrohd]

The main question is who guided Kurog to the Dragon Isles. My bet is Murozond in disguise. However there is always a chance that some among the Twilight Hammer had done research on draconic issues using their access to the black flight and had learned about the Primalists from them. The Dracthyr in particular seem to be very close to what Nefarian was always trying to achieve with Chromatus very much the apex of that experiment.

I do hope that they progress Renown for Iskara and Maruuk and give us another storyline quest. The Iskara Tuskar are not culturally different to the Northrend Tuskar and having them reunite would be interesting.
As for the Maruuk, I don't really like them but I think it's bullshit already that there is no story addition in their renown campaign (compared to e.g. MoP the max level storylines for the different reps are VERY limited).

[Rockefellah]

Between Classic, TBC, Wotlk and Cata we've seen plenty TH & co delving and experimenting with dragons. Isn't the whole deathwing arc and twilight hammer intertwined?

The story, and linking back / using old characters could have been much better though.

[Aucald]

hmmmm I can see it but I feel like there is too much of a gap. And if primalists are twilight cultists, then why in one quest near black dragon dailies, inside a cave, I did a quest, attack a draconoid and it turn into a twilight hammer ogre, saying; I am not the last or I wont be the last something around those lines. If primalists are twilight, then why the illusion?

I don't think the Worldbreakers and the Primalists are really on the same page, as my takeaway from the Worldbreakers is that they're a purely draconic branch of Deathwing's old dragonkin forces, and they'd likely not trust or heed the authority of a humanoid even if they were a member of the Twilight's Hammer. The original Black Dragonflight always held themselves above the Twilight's Hammer, viewing most of the Twilight cultists as mere tools and fodder to achieve their ends as actual allies. There may also be a few remaining Twilight's Hammer cultists who stayed true to their cause and didn't become Primalists, as well; as the Primalists are obviously pursuing a very different goal from the original Twilight's Hammer.