So Locks are gonna be next eh

[Mysterymask]

We just had the 4 "doesn't need any explanation or asset" classes spread to all races (Rogue, Mage, Priest, and Monk), and now we are left with the remaining

-Warlock: Doesn't need assets but needs EXPLANATION
-Shaman, Paladin: Needs Assets and Explanation
-Druid: Needs entire models redone and a lore explanation on where the fuck these came from.

So naturally means locks are probably next. I assume going through some story like "The Light isn't inherently Good" but for Fel "Fel isn't inherently evil" and would have to really show where the hell these new guys came from since even with that line of thinking Dranaei (especially Lightforged), Night Elves, and Mag'Har are not going to be like "oh gee I guess its ok"

Feel with Locks should be done in phases or reintroduce exiled factions into the groups in order to facilitate warlocks, maybe add some customizations to show it.

[Clone]

Warlocks don't need any other explanation other than people want to wield demonic powers because it's fast and easy.

[Mysterymask]

Warlocks don't need any other explanation other than people want to wield demonic powers because it's fast and easy.

For a Pandaran or maybe a Zandalari yes

but Night Elves, Maghar, and ESPECIALLY the Dranaei aren't gonna be to keen on that

[Nadiru]

"It's Different This Time because the Burning Legion is disbanded" is probably good enough for Night Elves/Maghar/Draenei.

[Ryzeth]

For a Pandaran or maybe a Zandalari yes

but Night Elves, Maghar, and ESPECIALLY the Dranaei aren't gonna be to keen on that

Why? Are they not allowed to be evil? How is a night elf demon hunter (which uses fel) any better than a warlock using fel/shadow?

@Clone was right. The only reason they need is "demon bargain = untold power, and I want power" every single race has had characters that break away from their perceived 'norms' for selfish purposes. Shadowmoon cultists were Mag'hari and they became warlocks / necromancers / shadow priests.

[Kathranis]

Why? Are they not allowed to be evil? How is a night elf demon hunter (which uses fel) any better than a warlock using fel/shadow?

@Clone was right. The only reason they need is "demon bargain = untold power, and I want power" every single race has had characters that break away from their perceived 'norms' for selfish purposes. Shadowmoon cultists were Mag'hari and they became warlocks / necromancers / shadow priests.

Even amongst the regular orcs, at the start of WoW the warlocks were shunned and their trainers were hidden away in the Cleft of Shadows.

Nevermind that warlocks in the spirit of Demon Hunters "fighting fire with fire" have already been accepted into both factions.

Put the draenei class trainer on the outskirts in hiding, make them a reformed man'ari eredar, whatever. Same with night elves. It's incredibly easy to justify.

[Unlimited Power]

Why? Are they not allowed to be evil? How is a night elf demon hunter (which uses fel) any better than a warlock using fel/shadow?

@Clone was right. The only reason they need is "demon bargain = untold power, and I want power" every single race has had characters that break away from their perceived 'norms' for selfish purposes. Shadowmoon cultists were Mag'hari and they became warlocks / necromancers / shadow priests.

Good luck trying to justify Lightforged Draenei using fel magic. No explanation will ever suffice. And don't say "shadow priest works". It's the exact same logic as forsaken priests and void elves canonically only being shadow priests but being able to play light wielding specs for gameplay reasons.

That sort of logic doesn't and will never apply to warlocks or DH.

As for Mag'har orcs, not using fel magic which would give them green skin is literally the one thing that separates them from regular orcs.

[Kithelle]

Why? Are they not allowed to be evil? How is a night elf demon hunter (which uses fel) any better than a warlock using fel/shadow?

@Clone was right. The only reason they need is "demon bargain = untold power, and I want power" every single race has had characters that break away from their perceived 'norms' for selfish purposes. Shadowmoon cultists were Mag'hari and they became warlocks / necromancers / shadow priests.

Demon Hunter's sacrifice for the greater good and power, Warlocks typically pursue power for their own gains...allied warlocks just prefer to be their own masters instead of joining the legion

[Hitei]

Even amongst the regular orcs, at the start of WoW the warlocks were shunned and their trainers were hidden away in the Cleft of Shadows.

Nevermind that warlocks in the spirit of Demon Hunters "fighting fire with fire" have already been accepted into both factions.

Put the draenei class trainer on the outskirts in hiding, make them a reformed man'ari eredar, whatever. Same with night elves. It's incredibly easy to justify.

This doesn't really make any sense even within the narrow confines of your explanation.

If the man'ari is reformed, why are they actively attempting to teach a bunch of uncorrupted Draenei how to destroy souls to power fel magic? Why aren't they immediately being hunted down and killed the second anyone clocks that there's a bunch of brand new fel adepts going around and traces of fel magic?

A reformed man'ari eredar should be attempting to STOP the spread of fel magic usage, not foster it.

[Elbob]

This doesn't really make any sense even within the narrow confines of your explanation.

If the man'ari is reformed, why are they actively attempting to teach a bunch of uncorrupted Draenei how to destroy souls to power fel magic? Why aren't they immediately being hunted down and killed the second anyone clocks that there's a bunch of brand new fel adepts going around and traces of fel magic?

A reformed man'ari eredar should be attempting to STOP the spread of fel magic usage, not foster it.

The actual easy answer here is some draenei are so angry with what the legion did to their race/homeworld the start researching demonic magics to better understand how to fight against it and in turn also learn how to use it against whom they hate most. Pretty classic fight fire with fire. Would draenei that follow this path be disliked by most other draenei? Yes. Would they probably hide this research and power from the general draenei public? Yes. Kinda like how human warlock trainers back in the day were all in a secret basement in stormwind, because the mainstream knowing what they were doing would be a nono.

[Hitei]

The actual easy answer here is some draenei are so angry with what the legion did to their race/homeworld the start researching demonic magics to better understand how to fight against it and in turn also learn how to use it against whom they hate most. Pretty classic fight fire with fire. Would draenei that follow this path be disliked by most other draenei? Yes. Would they probably hide this research and power from the general draenei public? Yes. Kinda like how human warlock trainers back in the day were all in a secret basement in stormwind, because the mainstream knowing what they were doing would be a nono.

Yes, but do you see how this requires a bunch of new stuff that doesn't currently exist?

Because if you invent such a group, the immediate question is where have they been this entire time and why, if they have been researching demonic magics to fight against their archnemesis the Legion and stop the Legion from doing anything else, were they totally and completely non-existent in the fight against the burning Legion?

"We've been (secretly) training to fight the Legion with their own powers" works when you have an established group like the Illidari who have a good reason for not being around for a while and then lead the fight against their hated enemy. It doesn't work when you add a brand new group after that hated enemy is already largely dealt with and they didn't help at all.

This is why warlock isn't just a flip a switch class. They require context be established for some of the race combinations.

[Mysterymask]

Had an odd shower thought about the eredar thing

The idea would be refugees that survived our attack on the legion decide to join the Dranaei and Velen being the big ole softie he is lets them in but under watch. BAM Dranaei Warlocks and even add in a nifty little red skin for them

Now for the Lightforged lets say during this thing a small handful of them decide to go through the lightforging process. Hesitant at first they let them through. Couple of them being warlocks they then also Lightforge the Demons maybe add a thing where other alliance characters can go through this and the Alliance has a unique warlock skin where they have white holy demons.

[Elbob]

Yes, but do you see how this requires a bunch of new stuff that doesn't currently exist?

Because if you invent such a group, the immediate question is where have they been this entire time and why, if they have been researching demonic magics to fight against their archnemesis the Legion and stop the Legion from doing anything else, were they totally and completely non-existent in the fight against the burning Legion?

"We've been (secretly) training to fight the Legion with their own powers" works when you have an established group like the Illidari who have a good reason for not being around for a while and then lead the fight against their hated enemy. It doesn't work when you add a brand new group after that hated enemy is already largely dealt with and they didn't help at all.

This is why warlock isn't just a flip a switch class. They require context be established for some of the race combinations.

Isnt that what the OP and I just kinda said?
"-Warlock: Doesn't need assets but needs EXPLANATION"

Finally laying eyes on what happened to their once beloved homeworld is what truly motivated this hate towards demons and resulting some distancing from the light/faith that most draenei focus on.

Formed as a group that wanted to hunt down remaining demons/splinters of the legion post legion(the expansion). Numbers were too small and still researching during BFA, Shadowlands is a bit who cares but if you really want to force a reason. They actively avoided helping and going into the shadowlands to hone their powers and avoid detection(also since the demons were based elsewhere, not in shadowlands. We can disregard the true history of dreadlords as they would have no knowledge of that by not going to the SL).

Feels like you are disagreeing only because you started by saying one of the 2s backstories a poster threw out didn't work and now need to be against the whole thread. But then fulling agreed with the OP's original statement. Hence the bolded part.

[Ryzeth]

As for Mag'har orcs, not using fel magic which would give them green skin is literally the one thing that separates them from regular orcs.

Strange, considering there's Mag'har in the Blood Furnace who are warlocks and not green. Shadowmoon Valley, too (both AU and TBC).

That sort of logic doesn't and will never apply to warlocks or DH.

And why's that, oh all-knowing lore master?

[Hitei]

Isnt that what the OP and I just kinda said?
"-Warlock: Doesn't need assets but needs EXPLANATION".

...

Feels like you are disagreeing only because you started by saying one of the 2s backstories a poster threw out didn't work and now need to be against the whole thread. But then fulling agreed with the OP's original statement. Hence the bolded part.

Maybe actually read the reply chain?

OP said warlocks were next and would need an explanation.
Clone said they don't need an explanation just "we wanted to use fel"
OP then pointed out that that's fine for a couple of the races but some are specifically anti-fel.
Ryzeth then said that it was fine for people to be evil and that Clone was right.
Kathranis agreed with him that they could just have a "redeemed" eredar in hiding to teach people.

I then pointed out that doesn't actually make any sense, because why would a redeemed Eredar be deliberately trying to spread the use of fel magic, that isn't redeemed at all.

At no point was I ever disagreeing with OP. I was specifically agreeing with OP that warlocks require an explanation and you can't just throw a warlock trainer someplace and turn off warlock for everyone.

Formed as a group that wanted to hunt down remaining demons/splinters of the legion post legion(the expansion). Numbers were too small and still researching during BFA, Shadowlands is a bit who cares but if you really want to force a reason. They actively avoided helping and going into the shadowlands to hone their powers and avoid detection(also since the demons were based elsewhere, not in shadowlands. We can disregard the true history of dreadlords as they would have no knowledge of that by not going to the SL).

Again, this makes no sense. So you have a group who hates demons, and after the demons were defeated they got together and said "Wow, look at my homeworld destroyed by demons. I hate demons so much that even though the threat of demons is now largely gone, I'm gonna form a new group and we're gonna learn how to summon demons and also teach other people who want to summon demons how to summon demons and use demonic magic."

Forming entirely new demon summoning groups to chase down a handful of small demonic threats, makes no sense. It especially doesn't make any sense for the Lightforged to become disillusioned with the Light and switch over to summoning demons to fight demons when the Lightforged were the primary force who held the demons at bay AND the bulk of the force who sieged Antorus and finished the Legion. They were extremely effective. Warlocks did very little to help. Their class hall campaign literally starts with them having fucked up and they spend the rest trying to scramble to rebuild the Harvest.

Who is going to leave the army who won the fight against the Legion to start bringing more of the thing they hate to their new homeworld? Why are they not just joining the Illidari and learning how to hunt, kill and strip demons instead of form contracts and strike bargains with them? Why are they actively feeding other people's souls to the Fel to fight non-fel threats?

[Elbob]

-snip-

Mate you are trying to so hard to just argue, when my original post at you was also disagreeing with the guy you quoted by providing another narrative as to you why Draenei could be warlocks. But you are so trigger happy you think im aligned with him. The only thing I agree'd with was a line from the op. So you throw a quote you just shot out without thinking "Maybe actually read the reply chain?"

You understand demons are not defeated right? The legion was defeated. Yeah the users would never want to see the corruption of argus happen to another world because of demons. I never said the light forged should be warlocks just Draenei and i agree that it would be harder to make a way to work.

"Warlocks did very little to help. Their class hall campaign literally starts with them having fucked up and they spend the rest trying to scramble to rebuild the Harvest." Most the campaigns did very little besides secure themselves against the initial invasion, if you want to say warlocks didnt help retake argus you gonna need some citations. Also didn't the warlock campaign steal Gul'dan's staff and stop him from opening a portal straight to argus or something? (i think it was the destro campaign weapon story). I dunno sounds pretty big to me.

Why say to me "This is why warlock isn't just a flip a switch class. They require context be established for some of the race combinations." If you aren't disagreeing with me or the thread. I never said they were.

Its all good though, you got your dukes up cause it a often aggressive forum and you can throw whatever last punch you want. I tossed my two cents as to why I think a draenei warlock story could easily be shoehorned in and even addressed problems you felt you had with it, and thats all I really wanted to do. So go nuts with any reply you want. I'll read it but probably not respond.

[Mysterymask]

Again, this makes no sense. So you have a group who hates demons, and after the demons were defeated they got together and said "Wow, look at my homeworld destroyed by demons. I hate demons so much that even though the threat of demons is now largely gone, I'm gonna form a new group and we're gonna learn how to summon demons and also teach other people who want to summon demons how to summon demons and use demonic magic."

Forming entirely new demon summoning groups to chase down a handful of small demonic threats, makes no sense. It especially doesn't make any sense for the Lightforged to become disillusioned with the Light and switch over to summoning demons to fight demons when the Lightforged were the primary force who held the demons at bay AND the bulk of the force who sieged Antorus and finished the Legion. They were extremely effective. Warlocks did very little to help. Their class hall campaign literally starts with them having fucked up and they spend the rest trying to scramble to rebuild the Harvest.

Which is why I think my stupid shower thought seems the best option

A couple of displaced Eredar end up in Azeroth looking for a home. A couple get light forged and they don't abandon their teachings. Give Dranaei a red skin and give the alliance the option of Lightforging their demons except for a few angry horde players win win.

[bloodmoth13]

Warlocks don't need any other explanation other than people want to wield demonic powers because it's fast and easy.

While certain factions shun certain magics there is no reason there wont be rebels. Plenty of orc warlocks and thralls horde would be extremely anti-warlock, its handwaived because of outlier cults.

Though i do think it could be a good excuse to introduce more customization. Frankly lightforged should just be customization options for regular draenie and add eredar to the draenie and you are done, add a few separate voice assets and you can give players whatever they want. Id like to see the same for trolls too.
Same for mechagnomes and kultirans, add kultiran body types to all humans and stormwind body types to all kultirans, create voice packs for each sub group and you have all classes for all humans without the need for lore asspull. Stormwind humans just learn from kul'tirans.

[loras]

We just had the 4 "doesn't need any explanation or asset" classes spread to all races (Rogue, Mage, Priest, and Monk), and now we are left with the remaining

-Warlock: Doesn't need assets but needs EXPLANATION
-Shaman, Paladin: Needs Assets and Explanation
-Druid: Needs entire models redone and a lore explanation on where the fuck these came from.

So naturally means locks are probably next. I assume going through some story like "The Light isn't inherently Good" but for Fel "Fel isn't inherently evil" and would have to really show where the hell these new guys came from since even with that line of thinking Dranaei (especially Lightforged), Night Elves, and Mag'Har are not going to be like "oh gee I guess its ok"

Feel with Locks should be done in phases or reintroduce exiled factions into the groups in order to facilitate warlocks, maybe add some customizations to show it.

Honestly i'd try to go for the angle of "chaos, light and nature find common ground".
Show that chaos is necessary as part of the cosmic balance and they might be reluctantly accepted.

In case of the draenei i could imagine magical tattoos or other stuff specifically to fortify the warlocks against the corrupting influences as best as possible while still allowing them to wield warlock powers.

In the case of night elves i am not sure what sort of precautions would be taken.
The Mag'har would probably not need any aesthetical stuff; they just do what orcs do and put them through a lot of trials to ensure they are tough enough. Probably.
Either that or a weird mechanical fel-corruption inhibitor.

[Clone]

For a Pandaran or maybe a Zandalari yes

but Night Elves, Maghar, and ESPECIALLY the Dranaei aren't gonna be to keen on that

All the latter three races you mentioned have historically had warlocks.