[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[MrLachyG]

Isn't Higher and Further the same shit?

No, not even remotely the same thing

[Surfd]

Because sure, there's these guys, like you said; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-616)
But, let's see, there's also (and this is not a thorough list);
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-2319)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-91126)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-12131)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-14515)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-976)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-231)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-10022)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-42409)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-51271)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-9200)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-96662)
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illuminati_(Earth-32201)

And I'll stop there at the end of the first search page because I think I've made my point.

Hell, there's even these guys, from Earth-616;
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Illum...7s)_(Earth-616)

I love it.

This kind of thing basically gives a perfect example of how pointless Syegfryed's moaning about the MoM Illuminati is. Here we have like 14 different versions of the Illuminati. And out of that list, a good chunk of them just die when faced with an incursion level threat. Their footnote is basically: They fought, they died. Some of them get taken down by a single threat target. In one universe, they get defeated by the Guardians of the Galaxy for gods sakes. Which just goes to show that Wanda ripping the 838 universe Illuminati a new one is basically an everyday occurance in multiversal marvel shit.

[Dystemper]

With the underperforming the MCU movies now, Disney is going to be forced to make changes in a big way, sooner rather than later.
I imagine Marvels being extensively reshot, and phase 5 shows and movies reconsidered. I also think Feige gets moved out or he leaves . His chances if being namedDisney #2 guy have evaporated. Disney has to be in full on panic mode .

[Endus]

Stinks of desperation in here. Is this because Disney are "woke" now, and people want to see failure?

Nothing is going to really change in a "big way" lol Certainly won't be seeing Feige go anywhere other than up the chain.

This wet dream of yours is increasingly pathetic.

The silliest damned thing to me is the idea that Feige's had dozens of stupidly successful films, including a whopping 8 of the top-25-grossing films ever, and achieving a franchise completely out of scale with anything else in film history, but a couple films didn't quite perform as well as expected so he's gonna get fired. No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Wakanda Forever are all in the top 10 in box office returns for the MCU, and all occurred during this period they're trying to argue is "underperforming".

[everydaygamer]

The silliest damned thing to me is the idea that Feige's had dozens of stupidly successful films, including a whopping 8 of the top-25-grossing films ever, and achieving a franchise completely out of scale with anything else in film history, but a couple films didn't quite perform as well as expected so he's gonna get fired. No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Wakanda Forever are all in the top 10 in box office returns for the MCU, and all occurred during this period they're trying to argue is "underperforming".

He's also the only one who's managed to successfully put together a cinematic universe. Even if they did fire him who the hell could replace him?

[Biomega]

Not surprising to see this kind of immediate doomsaying flex on here of all places. After all, MMOC is the home of the "OP class got nerfed by 5% IT IS NOW DEAD?!?!?!" crowd.

Sure there's some problems with some of the more recent MCU stuff, and it's not living up to peak times - but it's a far cry from being about to collapse or everyone involved getting instantly fired. The MCU or the key people involved in it aren't going anywhere for the time being.

[Surfd]

But they didn't break every world wide box office record known to man and spontaneously make virgins pregnant with Chris's children (Pratt, Hemsworth or Evans, your pick), so this obviously means that the MCU is doomed. DOOOMED I tell you, and by extension is therefore taking the entirety of Disney down with it, because, you know, reasons....

It's straight up amusing watching these people (at least I think they are people. Beginning to think some of them might be rogue chat bots tryin to pull a fast one on us) climb up their own asses trying to find reasons why Ant-man under performing is the sign of the apocalypse or some ridiculous shit. Even the worst movies in the MCU are still better than 90% of the competition in the Superhero Cinema category, and with the amount of bank the MCU has made them, they could produce a year or two of complete, abject failures and still likely be ahead of the game in sum total from a profit stand point.

But yea, the idea that Disney is going to somehow punish Feige for like one or two mildly under performing movies in a very unstable market is pure batshit insanity.

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He's also the only one who's managed to successfully put together a cinematic universe. Even if they did fire him who the hell could replace him?

Yeah, his name should go down in cinema history for that achievement alone. 20 years ago, if anyone had told the average person that someone would create a movie franchise spanning almost 40 movies that for the most part are not directly connected "sequels" but all take place in the same connected universe, those people would all either think you are talking crazy talk, or that you were talking about some direct-to-video B- movie crap.

[VMSmith]

This kind of thing basically gives a perfect example of how pointless Syegfryed's moaning about the MoM Illuminati is. Here we have like 14 different versions of the Illuminati. And out of that list, a good chunk of them just die when faced with an incursion level threat.

I agree that moaning that they're not like the ones he knows is ridiculous, my problems with that scene still remain simply because they ARE hapless, in general.

I mean, what's the point of the Illuminati scene? If its to show that Wanda is super-dangerous and should be taken seriously then that Illuminati needs to be powerful and at least some sort of challenge, right? But they're not and they don't. So what's the point of it? To show that Wanda can murder what are essentially idiotic children playing at hero?

This is why, to me, the whole scene just doesn't work at all. They're too weak to advance Wanda, so why even have the scene at all other than as some weak super-hero-killing porn ... which The Boys and Invincible both do so so much better, again because, in the case of Invincible, they make the heroes that are slaughtered at least appear competent, thereby propping up the prowess of the one killing them. Omni-Man is terrifying because you saw him destroy heroes who had been established as powerful and competent. In The Boys, the hero-slaughter is either played for laughs or in service to Homelander's psychopathic need to destroy everything that remotely smells of a challenge or slight.

But in MoM, the scene is just pointless and only satisfies some perversity in seeing heroes outclassed and murdered. I guess a lot of people get off on that, since the movie did well enough.

Anyway, IMO, the problem is not that they aren't as strong as Earth-616 or whatever's Illuminati. The problem is that they are nothings and a waste of time. They are Ralph Boner all over again.

[Syegfryed]

You should really go and read some of the early issues they weren't trying to be faithful beyond superficially in most cases and just like the iluminati They didn't get the Original line up.

nope, in most cases they were able to pull out the spirit of the super hero that they were trying to depict, it was not all superficial, at all.

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Not surprising to see this kind of immediate doomsaying flex on here of all places. After all, MMOC is the home of the "OP class got nerfed by 5% IT IS NOW DEAD?!?!?!" crowd.

Sure there's some problems with some of the more recent MCU stuff, and it's not living up to peak times - but it's a far cry from being about to collapse or everyone involved getting instantly fired. The MCU or the key people involved in it aren't going anywhere for the time being.

Its good to see now and then those things so people can stop saying everything is fine and there is no problem at all and all is being good quality

This is akin to the case of the frog in the wheel. We saw quality decreasing in every movie and tv/show, and everybody said it was fine, because the numbers were holding up, and now you see a colossal drop that this movie was, and people ask what happened, well we had signs for a while now. Endgame itself was not that great and after that it was ok at best some titles.

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I agree that moaning that they're not like the ones he knows is ridiculous, my problems with that scene still remain simply because they ARE hapless, in general.

It is ridiculous because he is lying, as all they do, is a point i never made.

I said expecting heroes/characters to be like the comics IS NOT a silly thing, it is something we should expect, because it happened many times, even when its not a carbon copy, or when there is significant changes, there still stuff that look like or link then together.

Expecting the iluminati to hold up to their name is not silly, is common sense, since they are an big and important figure in the comics with different heroes that are powerhouses in their own field, otherwise they could not possible make that kind of organization in the first place, the only silly thing is believe they should not be competent.

Anyway, IMO, the problem is not that they aren't as strong as Earth-616 or whatever's Illuminati. The problem is that they are nothings and a waste of time. They are Ralph Boner all over again.

oh god, i completely forgot about the Ralph boner shit, almost ruined the show for me.

[SavoirFaire]

Stinks of desperation in here. Is this because Disney are "woke" now, and people want to see failure?

Nothing is going to really change in a "big way" lol Certainly won't be seeing Feige go anywhere other than up the chain.

This wet dream of yours is increasingly pathetic.

I’m not convinced the people posting doom and gloom even believe it, as their arguments are so poor.

The logical conclusion is they just come here to rabble rouse and then when it gets quiet, do it again. Unfortunately we have a lot of people here with the internet side of “enjoying the sound of their own voice” so this stuff repeats and repeats and repeats…

[Biomega]

I’m not convinced the people posting doom and gloom even believe it, as their arguments are so poor.

It's likely even worse than that - they don't actually CARE if it's true or not. They're just baiting reactions on the one hand, and trying to appear as a cool contrarian edgelord on the other. Whether or not they really believe what they're saying isn't really relevant to them, or to the way they're behaving.

There's a lot of that on other ends of the curve, too, not just the doom-saying ends. Like people who deliberately and systematically misrepresent people's arguments to try and stir up controversy, and then keep it going ad nauseam by being completely resistant to actual discourse. It's just one of those forum things.

At the end of the day, we don't really have any inside information, so we can mostly just wait and see. Sure it's easy to say Marvel would have been happier had Quantumania made a billion dollars, but realistically that just wasn't likely to happen and so it probably wasn't within anyone's expectations. What they DID expect and how the current performs stacks up against those expectations, we can at best speculate about. Same for the precise finances involved, or what it means for the rest/future of the MCU. Those are simply things we don't know enough about to make serious pronouncements.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

nope, in most cases they were able to pull out the spirit of the super hero that they were trying to depict, it was not all superficial, at all.

So now we’re at “they got the same spirit” so there close enough?

Because that would still make the iluminati from MoM fit because reed being over confident and over playing his hand fits in spirit, Charles going for the more compassionate route and trying to help Wanda fits his spirit, even black bolt being a dolt fits as he’s killed more then one family member by accident with his powers.

I mean even look at the list endus or I posted of different Iluminari’s then dying like cumps also fits there multiversel spirit.

[Jotaux]

Im disappointed to see Quantumania drop so much. I saw it yesterday and it’s easily in the top half of the MCU. I could easily see Kang being on par with Thanos.

[everydaygamer]

Im disappointed to see Quantumania drop so much. I saw it yesterday and it’s easily in the top half of the MCU. I could easily see Kang being on par with Thanos.

Unfortunately, critic reviews do often have some effect on box office performance. The movie will be fine in the long run.

[Syegfryed]

So now we’re at “they got the same spirit” so there close enough?

Do you live in binary world, by any chances? if isn't X is Y? because you sure know how to nitpick one bit and ignore everything else

I mean even look at the list endus or I posted of different Iluminari’s then dying like cumps also fits there multiversel spirit.

Im gonna make a wild guess and bet they didn't die like shit against one super hero while being dumb and doing nothing

[Fabinas]

With the underperforming the MCU movies now, Disney is going to be forced to make changes in a big way, sooner rather than later.
I imagine Marvels being extensively reshot, and phase 5 shows and movies reconsidered. I also think Feige gets moved out or he leaves . His chances if being namedDisney #2 guy have evaporated. Disney has to be in full on panic mode .

And all this comes from?

Because p4 and p5 (one movie so far) haven't performed as p3 and Infinity War/Endgame?

Really, mate, i don't doubt the franchise isn't as successful as before, but all that dread and panic and stuff, are just things your brain farts.

Feige will only leave only and if p6 tanks.

[Immitis]

None of the Guardians no Black Panther were ever Avengers, dude.

Rocket was for a little while

[MrLachyG]

Rocket was for a little while

Nebula too then, I presume

[Biomega]

Were they actual Avengers, though, or were they just wearing Avengers-branded suits. Which they wore for a specific, time-travel-related reason, and not just as uniforms.

I mean, the comics play "I, too, was once an Avenger!" for a laugh, and honestly it doesn't really matter, but... yeah.

[Orby]

Stinks of desperation in here. Is this because Disney are "woke" now, and people want to see failure?

Nothing is going to really change in a "big way" lol Certainly won't be seeing Feige go anywhere other than up the chain.

This wet dream of yours is increasingly pathetic.

I don't like this notion of absolute now, that because people are falling out with the MCU is because its gone 'woke' (whatever that even means now), a lot of people myself included are just burned out, the over saturation the amount of consumption there is. Watching the MCU shouldn't feel like homework. Also there's the fact of the MCU's comedy really giving me a headache, its lack of passion over time and just down right (to me what feels like ) laziness. and the fact its turning into what the transformer franchise was. Of course this could all be apart of my burnout.

I still like Disney and I still love Marvel, its just the MCU that I have fallen out with. I am super excited for X-Men '97 and I am reading Marvel comics again thanks to the Sins of Sinister Storyline. As far as Disney movies go, I cannot say, I haven't watched any since Encanto, which I liked. (Hate all the Disney Live Action remakes though, but thats not an unpopular opinion)

Fact is there are plenty of reasons why people have fallen out with the MCU and some of which are completely understandable. The 'woke' excuse is like a small pocket of the internet who I would just ignore and not amplify.