No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means??

[Relapses]

Yes, yes, I know. All reviews are good, if we exclude all the reviews that aren't good.

No true Scotsman in action.

What the actual fuck are you on about?

You linked the epicenter of all negativity circlejerking on the internet as "proof" that DF isn't well-received. It'd be like linking the comments section of a Tucker Carlson video as proof that Americans are dissatisfied with the current administration.

[Biomega]

Yes DF is great, and it might save Wow. Back to no fomo, fantasy style world. Online reviews are all good and people who play it, like it. Might be to late but I think not.

"The people who play it like it" is a problematic metric to go by, though - because as a business, your biggest concern is often getting people who AREN'T already buying your product to buy your product.

From what little numbers we know, it seems that while existing players may be enjoying DF, there's also a dropoff in players compared to the past - i.e. it's not a surprise that the number of people enjoying the game has increased if everyone else HAS QUIT.

That doesn't mean the satisfaction of current players is irrelevant, far from it. But it does mean you need a broader perspective than going "people still playing seem to like it" after you've just lost a chunk of people. Because that's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's a bit like saying everyone seems to love your restaurant's new salmon-and-tabasco ice cream after everyone who didn't love it stopped coming. Of course the people who remained are the ones who love it - THAT'S WHY THEY STAYED while everyone else quit. But what does that REALLY say about how good your ice cream idea was?

[Osmeric]

What the actual fuck are you on about?

I'm mocking your ridiculous illogic. Your fallacy is so blatant it has a name.

You linked the epicenter of all negativity circlejerking on the internet as "proof" that DF isn't well-received.

No, I linked it as evidence that the claim "all reviews are good" is obviously wrong. Because you get a score of 3.6 by having a whole lot of reviews that are nowhere near good.

And then you decided for no good reason whatsoever that those reviews should be ignored. Because reasons.

[Ielenia]

Yes, yes, I know. All reviews are good, if we exclude all the reviews that aren't good.

No true Scotsman in action.

Dude, have you read some of the negative reviews on Metacritic? Someone gave Dragonflight a score of 2 because, and I'm paraphrasing here, "WoW still keeps racial segregation despite claiming to be LGBT positive" when talking about races being faction-specific. Another "reviewer" also gives a 0 after also mentioning the exact same "racial segregation" as one of their reasons to dislike Dragonflight. Antoher "reviewer" gave it a 3 and cites "we can't pick 'male' or 'female' anymore on character generation meaning characters are genderless now" as one of the reasons for disliking Dragonflight.

Not to mention that having a feature that is highly similar to another game's feature that people find fun (i.e. dragonriding) is somehow also a negative, in those people's eyes.

[Osmeric]

Dude, have you read some of the negative reviews on Metacritic?

Yes, I am sure if you try hard enough you can find a rationalization for dismissing any negative review. Set very high ex post facto standards on those until the aggregate score makes you feel better.

[Relapses]

I'm mocking your ridiculous illogic. Your fallacy is so blatant it has a name.

No, I linked it as evidence that the claim "all reviews are good" is obviously wrong. Because you get a score of 3.6 by having a whole lot of reviews that are nowhere near good.

And then you decided for no good reason whatsoever that those reviews should be ignored. Because reasons.

Both statements are wrong. Not all reviews for DF are positive but general perception certainly isn't as negative as a website as prone to brigading and general degeneracy as metacritic would lead you to believe.

[VMSmith]

Both statements are wrong. Not all reviews for DF are positive but general perception certainly as negative as a website as prone to brigading and general degeneracy as metacritic would lead you to believe.

So, if Metacritic is such a terrible metric to use to judge the quality/popularity of a videogame (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) then wouldn't nearly every single game, especially the big ones, have terrible ratings, like below 50? 'Cause "brigading and general degeneracy"?

Hogwarts Legacy - 83 metascore

Cyberpunk 2077 - 88 Metascore

That's two popular games that have been otherwise savaged for various reasons, I'm sure there's many more, popular, games that have decent scores. Why are they not victims of "brigading and general degeneracy" but Dragonflight is?

I'm mocking you a bit, but still asking with interest. What is it about Dragonflight or Blizzard that only they receive poor reviews in enough volume to tank their scores?

oops:

World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria - 82 Metascore

[Relapses]

So, if Metacritic is such a terrible metric to use to judge the quality/popularity of a videogame (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) then wouldn't nearly every single game, especially the big ones, have terrible ratings, like below 50? 'Cause "brigading and general degeneracy"?

Hogwarts Legacy - 83 metascore

Cyberpunk 2077 - 88 Metascore

That's two popular games that have been otherwise savaged for various reasons, I'm sure there's many more, popular, games that have decent scores. Why are they not victims of "brigading and general degeneracy" but Dragonflight is?

I'm mocking you a bit, but still asking with interest. What is it about Dragonflight or Blizzard that only they receive poor reviews in enough volume to tank their scores?

oops:

World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria - 82 Metascore

Did you know that people can circlejerk positivity too? Hogwarts Legacy is a pretty good example of this because the game is mid as fuck and our lovely capital G gamer community was positively glowing about it since supporting the game was somehow giving one to the woke police or some shit.

For the record, I do not trust any online aggregate website for the same reason. People just want to validate their meaningless opinions and that's about all these websites do. I think most people who are able to think critically know not to rely on this data so it's a bit of a moot point. I mainly responded because the criticism of hyperbolic positivity shouldn't be equally hyperbolic negativity.

[VMSmith]

Did you know that people can circlejerk positivity too? Hogwarts Legacy is a pretty good example of this because the game is mid as fuck and our lovely capital G gamer community was positively glowing about it because supporting the game was somehow giving one to the woke police or some shit.

For the record, I do not trust any online aggregates for the same reason. People just want to validate their meaningless opinions and that's about all these websites do. I think most people who are able to think critically know not to rely on this data so it's a bit of a moot point. I mainly responded because the criticism of hyperbolic positivity shouldn't be equally hyperbolic negativity.

Ahhh.

So it's brigading and circlejerking all the time and it's always in the direction that disagrees with you. Got it.

[Osmeric]

Ahhh.

So it's brigading and circlejerking all the time and it's always in the direction that disagrees with you. Got it.

This way he never has to admit he's wrong.

[Glorious Leader]

To be fair, DF might very well be paying for the unmitigated travesty that was SL. Even if DF was the best and bestest expansion ever (and it certainly isn't, as far as I am concerned), not many players would flock to play it after the carfire of SL

As mentioned already this is a very much a cop.out. Even if you accept the idea that SL was really bad and that's why people didn't return thats just even more damming for DF because no matter how you want to paint it it failed to offer enough to entice them back.

- - - Updated - - -

The subcount barely grew between Cata and MoP afaik, so claiming that people "flocked back" is kinda speculative.

And WoD frankly an extremely solid marketing campaign.
You can say a lot of bad things about WoD, but the promo (comics, trailer and animated series) for WoD were absolute top notch.

Yes because I wasn't inundated for weeks with promotional material for DF. For the record I remember the ads for WoD and was shocked that they advertised new quests as a feature.. yea.. happens every expansion... it wasnt that great marketing..

[Relapses]

Ahhh.

So it's brigading and circlejerking all the time and it's always in the direction that disagrees with you. Got it.

The same people who give WoW a 0 because it has "Body Type 1" and "Body Type 2" are the ones who give Hogwarts Legacy a 10 for some unknown reason, so yeah. These kinds of opinions can and should be completely disregarded.

[Glorious Leader]

This way he never has to admit he's wrong.

Or the developers evidently because they cherry pick just as much as their defenders do.

[Ielenia]

Yes, I am sure if you try hard enough you can find a rationalization for dismissing any negative review. Set very high ex post facto standards on those until the aggregate score makes you feel better.

You're just being dishonest here. I'm pointing out how a decent amount of those bad reviews are people who apparently just really don't like WoW and are basically looking for any straws to hate on the game. Hence why people say that MetaCritic is not exactly the best metric for consumer opinions.

[arkanon]

You're just being dishonest here. I'm pointing out how a decent amount of those bad reviews are people who apparently just really don't like WoW and are basically looking for any straws to hate on the game. Hence why people say that MetaCritic is not exactly the best metric for consumer opinions.

And a decent amount of reviews are from fanboi clowns who rate anything Blizzard shit out, specifically wow related, 5/5 or 10/10 regardless of how crap it is.

[Relapses]

And a decent amount of reviews are from fanboi clowns who rate anything Blizzard shit out, specifically wow related, 5/5 or 10/10 regardless of how crap it is.

If you honestly think "fanboys" are trying to positive reviewbomb on metacritic you're out of your mind.

[arkanon]

If you honestly think "fanboys" are trying to positive reviewbomb on metacritic you're out of your mind.

They are - 100% - it happens with every release. If you dont believe fans of a game will give it 100% even when its really only a 75% you are out of your mind.

[Relapses]

They are - 100% - it happens with every release. If you dont believe fans of a game will give it 100% even when its really only a 75% you are out of your mind.

...for every one of these hypothetical fanboys embellishing a rating there's at least 20 buttmad ex-WoW players upset that the current expansion is no longer a carbon copy of whatever idealized version of WoW they have in their mind. It only takes a cursory glance at the kind of shit people are bitching about to realize that almost every review on that site is made in bad faith. These review aggregate websites provide validation and nothing else.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

Did you know that people can circlejerk positivity too? Hogwarts Legacy is a pretty good example of this because the game is mid as fuck and our lovely capital G gamer community was positively glowing about it since supporting the game was somehow giving one to the woke police or some shit.

For the record, I do not trust any online aggregate website for the same reason. People just want to validate their meaningless opinions and that's about all these websites do. I think most people who are able to think critically know not to rely on this data so it's a bit of a moot point. I mainly responded because the criticism of hyperbolic positivity shouldn't be equally hyperbolic negativity.

Wrath and Legion appear to be the highest-rated expansions on Metacritic, which is consistent with the general consensus. Do I agree with you that these websites are not perfectly accurate? Sure, in hindsight, I believe BfA deserves a higher score. Do I blame people for rating it so low? Not at all; it was an obvious downgrade compared to Legion.

Is Dragonflight suffering because it comes right after Shadowlands? Not any more than Legion suffered when it came out right after WoD. And yet, Legion was an overwhelming success and Dragonflight is a flop.

You are having a blast in DF because all the meaningful progression and rewards have been cut from content outside of raiding and M+ and you can finally log in to raid once or twice per week and then spend the rest of your time playing other games. And you are wondering why this expansion is the first one to flop on release since MoP and is getting bad reviews when it's THE BEST EXPANSION EVER?

Do you not see where the problem is? It doesn't matter how good an expansion is for hardcore raiders, because hardcore raiders are still just ~2% of the playerbase. For the rest, it's just a return to WoD.

[Osmeric]

If you honestly think "fanboys" are trying to positive reviewbomb on metacritic you're out of your mind.

Yes, of course. The positive reviews are always 100% thoughtful and legit. The negative reviews are always dastardly and illegitimate. You're rationalizing dismissal of the parts of the evidence you don't like.

(I have not played DF, so as a result I have not posted a review of it to Metacritic.)