Diablo 4 is bad.

[liyroot]

Well you're complaining about ARPG mechanics while talking about an ARPG, so I don't know what you expect people to say to you.

"Gosh, he's right, guys! Better just close up shop on this genre since MMOC_Poster_63482 pointed out that other genres don't play this way. Who knew? We had no idea all this time."

Hey if you like the game, that's great. I'm not trying to attack you for liking a game. Play what you wanna play. But people are saying that it's normal for games to be boring for the leveling process. I'm saying that it should not acceptable for a game to have hours of boring.

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Inscryption is a 10 hour game. Which a big chunk of is resetting you over and over again in the same exact part until you solve the mystery. And even then it still slowly reveals everything to you bit by bit. A beta/demo of the game would be literally one round against Leshy without any cabin exploring.

I played Inscription and I kept wanting to play it. I played D4 and I want to quit after 1 hour. Inscription did have a demo (https://dmullinsgames.itch.io/sacrifices-must-be-made) which was made in 48 hours thats more fun than D4 lol.

[david0925]

The game is ok. I don't think it's that bad but it certainly doesn't really pull me in. I am worried about the MMO aspect forcing/enticing people into doing more group-focused stuff though. It was already pretty bad in D2 (more exp overall and synergy when sticking together, and much more loot/exp when your character is enough to one shot even higher Px diffiiculty) and D3 (extra baseline EXP buff, and you can go to much, much higher GR level and clear faster due to group synergies), and I fear it will get even worse for D4 for solo players.

[liyroot]

Diablo 4 is bad because it's not Warcraft 3 or Fallout.

Okay, bruh.

It's really simple - it's just not that kind of game, bub.

The guy asked me what games start off fun from the start. Here are a list of 3 games that are fun from the first 5 mins.

[Gaidax]

The guy asked me what games start off fun from the start. Here are a list of 3 games that are fun from the first 5 mins.

The main point is, it's really simple - in ARPG, you start as dog and work your way up to godhood.

And quite frankly? In D4 first 5 minutes, you literally get to save the village, then get drugged and sacrificed on an altar, saved last moment and proceeding to purge that village from cultists. So I don't know what'd you want more from first 5 minutes there? More explosions I guess?

[Zka]

I've played earth spec druid on veteran diff in this open beta and it's definitely not oneshotting normal mobs. But it's not big news that classes/specs are not tuned properly in D4.

I've also played the closed beta until lvl 60+ and the difficulty ramped up quite a bit. Earth druid's dps was way too low. I've respecced to werebear, which was much better DPS but survivability wise all melee characters are basically dead. As soon as I run out of defensive/selfheal CDs/pots, I'm dead. Too much unavoidable damage for melee. I hope this has been improved, but this short lvl 25 limited beta didn't let us see.

Paragon talent trees are hyper-overengineered, attack types like lucky/overpower/etc make no sense to me at all, itemization is shit - I can't decide what is an upgrade and what isn't. There are some rare bonuses that are really good, but all the rest are just junk. Main stats/crit/etc feel weightless and all the same.

Mediocre game, but maybe they will improve it somehow.

[Dioporco]

People saying "it is only Beta" are dumb on purpose or trolling?

How many times in WoW people said "dw it is only alpa?beta?x.1 will fix" etc etc



Blizzard decided to show this Beta with lv 25 because it was the best they got, and is pretty undercookd

[Jester Joe]

I played Inscription and I kept wanting to play it. I played D4 and I want to quit after 1 hour. Inscription did have a demo (https://dmullinsgames.itch.io/sacrifices-must-be-made) which was made in 48 hours thats more fun than D4 lol.

This is why not everyone can be a critic.

If you can't realize why a short game with less mechanics would have a faster pull than a longer more complex game, then this is pointless.

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The guy asked me what games start off fun from the start. Here are a list of 3 games that are fun from the first 5 mins.

No, I said what kind of games are starting off with action packed sequences for the first hour or so.


And that sure as hell ain't inscryption, and I highly doubt the rest are blasting you right off the bat.

The only game I can think that does is Borderlands.

[liyroot]

This is why not everyone can be a critic.

If you can't realize why a short game with less mechanics would have a faster pull than a longer more complex game, then this is pointless.

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No, I said what kind of games are starting off with action packed sequences for the first hour or so.


And that sure as hell ain't inscryption, and I highly doubt the rest are blasting you right off the bat.

The only game I can think that does is Borderlands.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I never said I want action packed blahblah or I would be playing Call of Doody.
A game is about getting an objective, and trying to accomplish it. It has to hit a sweet spot between super hard and super easy. In the D4 demo the objective is to level up. It is super easy, and none of the mechanics seem to matter. Push any button. Wear any item. Etc. Your brain is completely off. This is hours of gameplay. What are you doing with your mind here? You're solving zero problems. You're just jumping through hoops. What is fun about that?

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The main point is, it's really simple - in ARPG, you start as dog and work your way up to godhood.

And quite frankly? In D4 first 5 minutes, you literally get to save the village, then get drugged and sacrificed on an altar, saved last moment and proceeding to purge that village from cultists. So I don't know what'd you want more from first 5 minutes there? More explosions I guess?

That would be fun except in D4, you start off as a god. Nothing can kill you. No boss is challenging. You push any button and mobs melt, then you go to the next room and do it again.

[chiddie]

I just played Inscription a couple days ago. Masterpiece game. I recommend it. What games are you playing that start off slow?
My fav games are
Fallout NV (starts off with a gunshot to the head and a choice between saving a town or destroying it)
Rimworld (start off with 3 guys in a desperate race to make a base or die)
WarCraft 3 (instantly in the game, which is the campaign. The campaign itself is difficult and fun).

No gating. No wasting my time. Just pay the price on the box and have fun. D4 is a beat-it-in-a-day game, after which you grind lootboxes for the ultimate combination of items. Just like WoW. But the grind itself is mindmeltingly boring. It's not even possible to lose. I don't get it.

Dude, no one of the games you mentioned is an ARPG.

ARPGS shine at end game (or they don’t but the campaign is there only to show how to play a little).

There is no decent ARPG out there that is mind blowing during the first 25 levels. They all “suck” more or less the same way.

[Ghost of Cow]

That would be fun except in D4, you start off as a god. Nothing can kill you. No boss is challenging. You push any button and mobs melt, then you go to the next room and do it again.

You can definitely die to some of the bosses in Act 1 - perhaps even moreso than in D3, but D3 was probably the easiest early game of all Diablo games.

I don't know if people were all just playing tanky builds or are being disingenuous in these threads, but you will definitely die to some of the bosses if you try ignoring all the mechanics.

[czarek]

People saying "it is only Beta" are dumb on purpose or trolling?

How many times in WoW people said "dw it is only alpa?beta?x.1 will fix" etc etc



Blizzard decided to show this Beta with lv 25 because it was the best they got, and is pretty undercookd

Fix what? Go over level 25 ? its all about that its midgame content not full. Ppl are dumb. W8 for full realese and talk. I checked leveling, talents, skills, BASE gameplay and thats all. I like it. Hard to tell how it ends after level25 because i havent played and like 99% here hasnt thats the big problem to talk about thing you havent reached yet... Just chill ppl that was only beta TEST and more like stres test for servers.

[liyroot]

Dude, no one of the games you mentioned is an ARPG.

ARPGS shine at end game (or they don’t but the campaign is there only to show how to play a little).

There is no decent ARPG out there that is mind blowing during the first 25 levels. They all “suck” more or less the same way.

Fallout NV is an ARPG. You play a story, get talents, abilities, level up, and collect loot. Same genre except in 1st person. And it's mindblowingly good. I love having a million impactful decisions to make in the story. I feel like I'm actually playing an RPG. I can actually pick who my character is and what they would actually do in the world.

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You can definitely die to some of the bosses in Act 1 - perhaps even moreso than in D3, but D3 was probably the easiest early game of all Diablo games.

I don't know if people were all just playing tanky builds or are being disingenuous in these threads, but you will definitely die to some of the bosses if you try ignoring all the mechanics.

You're right, I was exaggerating a little too much. My bad.

[Nachtigal]

People saying "it is only Beta" are dumb on purpose or trolling?

How many times in WoW people said "dw it is only alpa?beta?x.1 will fix" etc etc



Blizzard decided to show this Beta with lv 25 because it was the best they got, and is pretty undercookd

Dragonflight is, and will continue to be, amazingly good through it's lifespan. So will Diablo 4. You Blizzard haters are severely overcooked.

[BrokenRavens]

Fix what? Go over level 25 ? its all about that its midgame content not full. Ppl are dumb. W8 for full realese and talk. I checked leveling, talents, skills, BASE gameplay and thats all. I like it. Hard to tell how it ends after level25 because i havent played and like 99% here hasnt thats the big problem to talk about thing you havent reached yet... Just chill ppl that was only beta TEST and more like stres test for servers.

Well the problem here is that unless I am getting the game for free, I won’t be able to comment on it as I won’t be able to play it, because I am not buying it. (Well, I am not buying it unless it goes on sale with a big discount at least.)

I can only offer opinions on what I had access to.

Frankly I don’t care what the “endgame” is like because I won’t be participating in it, ever.
I didn’t in D3 which I liked leveling in much better, so why would I start in D4?

And people here implying that the endgame will be so much better than the leveling experience are just projecting what they hope the endgame will be like. Because unless they somehow had access to the full game, no one here really knows what the endgame experience will actually be like.

[crusadernero]

Dragonflight is, and will continue to be, amazingly good through it's lifespan. So will Diablo 4. You Blizzard haters are severely overcooked.

I've been skeptical in this thread about D4 and I love Blizzard and especially wow. That said, I left the D4 beta not convinced to spend 70 euros on it. Doesnt mean im a hater of anything, I just found the game lackluster. Might change when it releases, we will see. In any case, the beta did nothing for me. In fact, it probably made me 100% certain I wont buy it before launch.

Since it releases in june (summer), I might aswell just wait until the fall. By that point its probably cheaper to pick up.

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Well the problem here is that unless I am getting the game for free, I won’t be able to comment on it as I won’t be able to play it, because I am not buying it. (Well, I am not buying it unless it goes on sale with a big discount at least.)

I can only offer opinions on what I had access to.

Frankly I don’t care what the “endgame” is like because I won’t be participating in it, ever.
I didn’t in D3 which I liked leveling in much better, so why would I start in D4?

And people here implying that the endgame will be so much better than the leveling experience are just projecting what they hope the endgame will be like. Because unless they somehow had access to the full game, no one here really knows what the endgame experience will actually be like.

Yeah. This is Diablo. Endgame is more or less what you are doing while leveling. There wont be any gamebreaking amazing content at endgame. Its the same, but with more numbers.

[Jujudrood]

My biggest gripes are:

- skill tree - it's too small with too few abilities that feel fun, like with D3 the runes sometimes actually changed the way things worked but here it's all just passive. The escalating gold cost for resetting the tree is mildly infuriating, it's like they don't want you to test and play around with the abilities and find your groove, but rather punish you just for trying new things (and to hell with rolling multiple characters... that's a weak alternative).

- melee - just like, in general, melee felt bad and was pretty slow. Chasing all the ranged enemies with very few gap closers just to hit them enough with my wet paper towel attack so I can use a fun ability was... a bit not great. Just felt bad to be melee when sorcerer and necro can just lol run in and obliterate the screen in 2 seconds. Something needs done to remove this build/spend model of melee because when you can't even hit anything to build, you just run around like an asshole waiting for your 5 second dodge to help close the distance.

- the mmo stuff - it's not really all that cool to be cruising through flat, empty area in search of the next event just to have other people come crash in. Diablo is better as a sandbox of fun where you can roll around smashing demons en masse, but the amount of empty space is staggering, and when you do find a pack and it's a bunch of ranged who scatter like roaches to all corners of the map... meh.

Graphics were on point, everything looked and sounded good, it just felt bad to play melee.
Numbers can be tuned, I'm not worried about the numbers itself, but the gameplay left a bit to be desired, going from barbarian to sorcerer made me regret even playing barb, then druid to necro was the same, where I went from some silly bearman chasing everything down to just absolutely destroying things from safety as a necro.
It's only the first act, and I'm sure there's more to come, but it just felt like D3 without the mob density and without the skill modifier (runes) dynamic of your builds, which was two of the major fun parts, at least IMO.

[Witchblade77]

yeah, about that MMO stuff... I hated it in immortal where you are just trying to do the quest, but there is like 5 other people trying to do the quest and you are all fighting to tag the same mobs and make it to them in time before they are killed by someone else and because its diablo, you need to kill a LOT of them and they generally die far faster then average MMO mobs and so it becomes an annoying and frustrating experience of running around against other people essentially. and unlike D3 - I didn't see a way to opt out. I HAD to play with other people around. I know that people have been playing with others since D2, but never have, and I still had that option to play completely solo right up until Immortal. and its one of my least favorite things AND honestly - a deal breaker in many ways for D4. ah well... guess I'll just play prior versions when the mood strikes, or first 2 torchlights or something.

[exsanguinate]

TBH I've seen way better UI in modern games and older games than in Diablo 4. It looks very cheap, not at all innovative or high quality. I have a bad feeling that this game only serves as a money machine.

[Jester Joe]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I never said I want action packed blahblah or I would be playing Call of Doody.
A game is about getting an objective, and trying to accomplish it. It has to hit a sweet spot between super hard and super easy. In the D4 demo the objective is to level up. It is super easy, and none of the mechanics seem to matter. Push any button. Wear any item. Etc. Your brain is completely off. This is hours of gameplay. What are you doing with your mind here? You're solving zero problems. You're just jumping through hoops. What is fun about that

Again, like I said, this is why not everyone is a critic.

The point of the beta wasn't to level, it was to experience the game. There were rewards tied to getting to 20, sure, but that wasn't the goal and I don't know how you got that impression. Hell doing the campaign alone gets you to almost 15, so it only takes a few extra side quests which bring you into the dungeons to get to 20.

Also you're straight up lying or you didn't do any strongholds if you think it's as simple as just stomping in and winning.

The point was you're complaining that the demo, which was the first hour or so of the game, was boring. And you're making the most insane stretch to try to claim the entire game is boring because of that. Hence why I pointed out a vast majority of games have a slow start in the first hour or so, there's very few who don't. Your examples also even failed to compare.

Lastly, your idea of a game having to hit a sweet spot of difficulty is the most out of touch take. You realize, again outside of a new exceptions, games include difficulty options because not everyone WANTS a challenge? And you do realize that the D4 beta didn't have all the difficulty options, right? It had easy and normal, and that's it.

[liyroot]

*

Alright man, have fun doing what is good for you.