Diablo 4 is bad.

[Biomega]

Sooooo beyond all the overemotional bullshit for/against it, any sober pre(re)views yet?

Anyone got an example of what the characters discussed here look like? Not exactly the most important bit to me, but easiest to discuss without playing.

You mean like, visually?

It's a massive controversy, apparently, because some people are too skinny and some are not skinny enough, or something. At least that's what's blowing up the usual places.

Personally, I think whatever you can fault the game for, visual quality is not it. It looks VERY well made, and everything is expertly crafted and highly polished. From models to animations, they are definitely AAA quality.

[BrokenRavens]

That is how it works, yes, however this only applies to the overworld - it does not happen in dungeons. And to be fair, you don't see a lot of people; you see like one other person every now and then. They purposely made it so you come across other players every now and then, but it's nothing like say WoW where you find 10 other people in a quest area.

The only exceptions are cities (you see lots of people there, but those are noncombat zones) and the world bosses (set to 12 players max).

During this past demo, I saw waaaay more than that. Particularly in towns. I wish people would stop giving the impression that the overland will feel deserted. That is not the case at all.

[Biomega]

During this past demo, I saw waaaay more than that. Particularly in towns. I wish people would stop giving the impression that the overland will feel deserted. That is not the case at all.

I specifically mentioned that cities are different.

[Witchblade77]

I specifically mentioned that cities are different.

its not just cities though. my experience was very similar to playing immortal early on in that I had issues with completing certain side quests, because multiple people were doing the same quests and I would often not get to mobs in time to even tag them. almost missed out on a boss in I think.. it was another stronghold? or just general event, not sure, but you had to basically disable/click things in order to I think it this case spawn the boss, it all started to blend together at that point, but in any case, because I was on the outside clicking things, someone else started attacking the boss as it spawned and I almost didn't make it in time to tag it and get loot from it. I saw people out in a wild CONSTANTLY and I was playing fairly late at night too.

and that was just beta. live games tend to be busier.

[Gaidax]

its not just cities though. my experience was very similar to playing immortal early on in that I had issues with completing certain side quests, because multiple people were doing the same quests and I would often not get to mobs in time to even tag them. almost missed out on a boss in I think.. it was another stronghold? or just general event, not sure, but you had to basically disable/click things in order to I think it this case spawn the boss, it all started to blend together at that point, but in any case, because I was on the outside clicking things, someone else started attacking the boss as it spawned and I almost didn't make it in time to tag it and get loot from it. I saw people out in a wild CONSTANTLY and I was playing fairly late at night too.

and that was just beta. live games tend to be busier.

You don't "tag" in Diablo 4, you get loot off mobs if you're in vicinity of them even if you did not touch them.

[Biomega]

its not just cities though. my experience was very similar to playing immortal early on in that I had issues with completing certain side quests, because multiple people were doing the same quests and I would often not get to mobs in time to even tag them. almost missed out on a boss in I think.. it was another stronghold? or just general event, not sure, but you had to basically disable/click things in order to I think it this case spawn the boss, it all started to blend together at that point, but in any case, because I was on the outside clicking things, someone else started attacking the boss as it spawned and I almost didn't make it in time to tag it and get loot from it. I saw people out in a wild CONSTANTLY and I was playing fairly late at night too.

and that was just beta. live games tend to be busier.

Well, I suppose experiences differ from person to person. I only saw more than one other person twice (outside of world bosses), and both were in strongholds. In regular travel or random side events, I never saw more than one person. That's for two characters to 25, so maybe I just didn't play enough.

Don't get me wrong - I personally hate the whole MMO thing, and it's pretty much a strict negative to me (i.e. no upside, only downsides). But I really didn't see a whole lot of people.

[kenn9530]

the game that requires you to get to endgame before it gets fun? is not a very good game - yes I said it either the game is fun all the way through, or its not worth investing time into. we have seem the basic gameplay loop including various possible kinds of content. we have seen an entire first act of the story. we were introduced to multiple game systems. we got to see PLENTY.

P.S. I have been playing Diablo games since the very first one. and yes that includes the expansion that wasn't done by bizzard, but I unironically love anyway. never ONCE did I care about the endgame as if its an MMO. for me it was all about playing through the story with various characters. and after experiencing what passed for end game in Immortal? I care even less about end game. the game. needs. to be. fun. all the way. THROUGH. there are hours and hours of play that happen before you get to "endgame" and right now D4 just felt... middling. it may improve in a future. D3 certainly did. so I'm not dismissing it outright, but honestly I made it to level 20 for 2 reasons. 1. that was the level I hit when I finished act one story. 2. I wanted lvl 20 beta rewards. just in case. but there were points where I was going through the motions to a degree where I wasn't sure if it was worth it to even get that far.

game look pretty. sounds pretty. and if feels.. blah. but that's just me. to quote one particular song from into the woods "you're not bad, you're not good, you're just nice"

Have you ever played an ARPG, non are that great until you are actually in the endgame, if you dont think its fun dont play it then but plenty of players who enjoyed D3 at the start will love D4 since its better, its simply a better game than all previous diablo games, diablo games have never been about doing the story over and over again, its all about the endgame.

[Witchblade77]

You don't "tag" in Diablo 4, you get loot off mobs if you're in vicinity of them even if you did not touch them.

that wasn't my experience... or maybe I just didn't manage to get close enough to trigger vicinity loot, I don't know. I just know I found myself doing more running around trying to find mobs to fight than I fought mobs in several instances... and that was NOT fun. I'm hoping that by the time/if I get around to actualy buying the game, people would have moved on to higher level zones/difficulties or something so that I could have the solo diablo experience. that or better yet, they come to their senses and implement instancing back.

[kenn9530]

Don't get me wrong - I personally hate the whole MMO thing, and it's pretty much a strict negative to me (i.e. no upside, only downsides). But I really didn't see a whole lot of people.

So faster respawn rates, more exp, help with enemies to kill faster and some other benefits to MMO style are not upsides according to yourself, the game being more of an MMO is what makes it superior to other ARPGs and will keep the game more interesting for far longer.

[Witchblade77]

Have you ever played an ARPG, non are that great until you are actually in the endgame, if you dont think its fun dont play it then but plenty of players who enjoyed D3 at the start will love D4 since its better, its simply a better game than all previous diablo games, diablo games have never been about doing the story over and over again, its all about the endgame.

I guess you just decided to ignore the bulk of my post which is post scriptum. not that I'm surprised, given your post history.

no D4 is NOT a better game. its a better looking game, maybe. but it is NOT a better game. I wasn't looking for PoE or any other modern online only arpgs that sprung up in the last 10 years. I was looking for continuation of 2 decades of diablo experience. even in Immortal I had more fun leveling than I did in D4 and THAT.. is saying something.

[Gaidax]

Sooooo beyond all the overemotional bullshit for/against it, any sober pre(re)views yet?

Anyone got an example of what the characters discussed here look like? Not exactly the most important bit to me, but easiest to discuss without playing.

Well I can talk only about 3 classes I did try. And of course it's level 25 Act 1 take.

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Sorceress - I played this one extensively over 2 beta weekends and there is 90% chance I go with her as my launch character. The resource system is mana, quickly regenerating pool of 100 (or was it 105) points, which are used to power some of your spells.

The spells themselves are either: basic - weakest spammable spells that cost no resource and don't generate either, aside from one on condition. Spenders: have no cooldown, but cost mana - usually typical caster one off nuke spells. Cooldowns: have no mana cost, but have cooldown - usually defensives, conjurations and ultimates.

Spells themselves are roughly equally split to spell schools based on element - Pyromancy, Lightning, Frost. Talent trees have passives that support all of them one way or another. Some people get impression that you want to focus into one element, so you could stack passives of that element - this is a wrong take, the most effective builds so far mix at the very least 2 distinct elements, because there are cross element/type synergies.

Special class ability: Enchantment. All your active spells have a special passive effect, you have 2 empty slots to slot these abilities there to gain their passive effect. Examples: Fireball - killing enemies makes them detonate for 50% of Fireball damage. You don't have to actively use Enchantment skill to gain effect, but you can still slot it as enchantment and use it too if you want.

Gameplay - you use 2-3 offensive abilities of some sort and the rest is utility, mobility and defensives as you see fit. Mostly this is ranged play, although melee is possible with few spells to support it, if you so desire. Class feels very fast due to excellent AoE clears combined with good 'ol Teleport ability. Despite perception of fragile mage - it's actually surprisingly tanky (again level 25) - you can't restore HP from abilities outside potions or legendaries, but it spams barriers (HP shield practically) passively and actively like no tomorrow and has some complete immunity cooldowns too.

Overall, snappy, fast, not very complex and makes everything explode in glorious blaze/ice/lightning or all of it together - depends on build.

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Necromancer - Resource: Essence, slowly regenerating pool you can refill faster by using basic skills. Basic skills: a selection of 4 skills that are free to cast that either give you essence on cast or on hit. Resource 2: Corpses, generated from dead enemies or via various abilities/passives.

Spells: again, usually either cooldown utility/defensive/ultimate or no cooldown, but using essence - with exception of Bone Spirit which is both cooldown and uses ALL essence for big nuke. -OR- using corpses to activate, such as Summon Skeleton, Corpse Explosion and few others.

Spells are mostly split between Bone (physical, direct damage), Blood (physical, mix) and Shadow (shadow, DoTs), again you mix them as you see fit, no point to hard limit yourself to one school. Additionally, you have 2 spells that reserve spell slots for minions - Skeletons (Warriors/Mages/Priest), Golem.

Special class ability: Book of the Dead. Customize your minions, with various passive effects, summon different kinds of minions with their own perks -OR- sacrifice them for personal power gain.

Gameplay - varies really, you can go either way - minion master, direct damage with bone/blood, DoTs and curses or some mix of this. The class is slower than Sorceress, no mobility skills and much of spell/minons take their sweet time, but seems to have higher damage potential. Does not have many barriers, but does have various ways to recover HP directly, can use shield for more physical defense, power debuff curses and has a pretty powerful immunity skill.

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Rogue, I'd write it up but need to take off.

Overall, Kripparian has a decent video on classes so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUDuzlCDcI

I would take the "tier list" with a big grain of salt, we already seen in beta things like Barbarians critting for 400k, which is ungodly amount of damage and hell there is a video of even Druid somehow managing to wreck pretty damn decently, despite being much maligned and meme'd class. Keep in mind it's all level 25 Act 1 talk, practically a tutorial act first few hours ingame. We have no clue how it will end up being.


Here is a talent calculator you can use to try and gauge the abilities, skill tree and some legendaries . Paragon boards are very partially datamined there too https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/#

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that wasn't my experience... or maybe I just didn't manage to get close enough to trigger vicinity loot, I don't know. I just know I found myself doing more running around trying to find mobs to fight than I fought mobs in several instances... and that was NOT fun. I'm hoping that by the time/if I get around to actualy buying the game, people would have moved on to higher level zones/difficulties or something so that I could have the solo diablo experience. that or better yet, they come to their senses and implement instancing back.

It's how it works.

You get loot even if you don't tag the mob as long as you're nearby overworld. It's how people farmed that level 35 mob, while being AFK watching some stream shit or just going about your day.

You absolutely and totally don't need to tag anything to get loot. Same in dungeons with friends, you can just chill at the entrance - whatever they kill - you get loot.

[kenn9530]

I guess you just decided to ignore the bulk of my post which is post scriptum. not that I'm surprised, given your post history.

no D4 is NOT a better game. its a better looking game, maybe. but it is NOT a better game. I wasn't looking for PoE or any other modern online only arpgs that sprung up in the last 10 years. I was looking for continuation of 2 decades of diablo experience. even in Immortal I had more fun leveling than I did in D4 and THAT.. is saying something.

It is a better game than all previous diablo games thats a simple fact, the leveling is good in D4 better than just grinding in D3 and better than the previous games, leveling is just so you can see the story of the game until you get to endgame, its no different from any other ARPG.

[Chromeshellking]

Did any one ever figure out what the ran out of memory was being caused by?

[Biomega]

So faster respawn rates, more exp, help with enemies to kill faster and some other benefits to MMO style are not upsides according to yourself, the game being more of an MMO is what makes it superior to other ARPGs and will keep the game more interesting for far longer.

Those aren't real, because they exist purely to offset something that wouldn't even exist if this didn't have MMO elements. I don't WANT help with enemies. I play this for my own personal challenge; if I wanted help, I could just invite people. I don't.

Your argument is a bit like saying "well if you didn't have other people in WoW, you could never kill raid bosses" - yeah that's true, but if WoW was a single-player game it also, uh, WOULDN'T HAVE THOSE RAID BOSSES. So that's not really an upside, it's solving a problem that wouldn't exist without its own solution.

[kenn9530]

Those aren't real, because they exist purely to offset something that wouldn't even exist if this didn't have MMO elements. I don't WANT help with enemies. I play this for my own personal challenge; if I wanted help, I could just invite people. I don't.

Your argument is a bit like saying "well if you didn't have other people in WoW, you could never kill raid bosses" - yeah that's true, but if WoW was a single-player game it also, uh, WOULDN'T HAVE THOSE RAID BOSSES. So that's not really an upside, it's solving a problem that wouldn't exist without its own solution.

Your own personal challenge wont come until you are max level where you can actually make the game harder, so all the benfits of playing with others or having others nearby get you there faster, there are no downsides in the game being an MMO only upsides.

[Biomega]

Your own personal challenge wont come until you are max level where you can actually make the game harder, so all the benfits of playing with others or having others nearby get you there faster, there are no downsides in the game being an MMO only upsides.

Not to me. Other people helping me is a DOWNSIDE for me, not an upside. I don't want people to help me level.

[kenn9530]

Not to me. Other people helping me is a DOWNSIDE for me, not an upside. I don't want people to help me level.

Its not a downside thats a simple fact, doesnt matter if you want to play solo, you dont get that option so you have to suck it up and accept it or not play the game at all, getting more exp or things dying faster is always and upside, you need to accept reality.

[Gaidax]

Did any one ever figure out what the ran out of memory was being caused by?

It seems D4 grabbed ALL the RAM it could. I have 32GB and it went up to 20GB used there, now much of it may just be a reservation, but IMO that's a stretch, application shouldn't hog ALL your available memory just because "maybe I gonna need it man". I do think there is some sort of memory leak going on.

I did use high quality textures, I head dropping to medium helps.

[Biomega]

Its not a downside thats a simple fact, doesnt matter if you want to play solo, you dont get that option so you have to suck it up and accept it or not play the game at all, getting more exp or things dying faster is always and upside, you need to accept reality.

You need to accept that me NOT LIKING SOMETHING makes it a downside, whether that is helping me or not.

I also don't like people paying for my drinks. That doesn't mean I don't think having more money is generally better than having less money, it just means I DON'T LIKE THIS KIND OF HELP.

You have zero control over my personal preferences, and it seems to be bugging you a lot that some people like things differently than you do. Which is weird AF.

[Lordofbelbol]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

are you okay ?
what he said is 100% true..