Are Evokers getting a new spec?

[Berkilak]

It doesn't really matter what the spec is like.

You'd have to be deluding yourself if you think, after all this, that nothing is happening.

That's the real kicker. I'm more skeptical than most, but at this point, Occam's Razor is dictating that there will be a third Evoker spec themed around the Black Dragonflight focusing on Support as a role. Which is wild. It violates so many preconceptions about how Blizzard has operated for the past 30 years. But what is the alternative? What explains all of this more convincingly?

Spock said it best, while quoting an ancestor of his:

[Ersula]

The reason why is blatantly obvious: it would require a big change to almost all the existing classes, who would most likely lose most if not all of their support abilities so that a new "support" role can be added and still be meaningful. It literally shakes up the status quo.

What do we define as "support" abilities? Buffs? Heals? Utility? Damage mitigation? I'm still not entirely convinced the third spec won't be a Tank. It might even just be a DPS spec that does low damage but offers other benefits. Like if Feral had an Aura.

[Teriz]

Another healing or dps spec is more believable than a support spec, but I still doubt it'll ever happen in this expansion because of how it can fuck up with the status quo, because I know Blizzard can't properly balance new class/specs. Every class they introduce either come out of the oven very overpowered, or very underperforming.

That really doesn't matter. Its entirely based on the hype it would generate and the increased number of subs it would bring. It could be the most unbalanced class Blizzard ever released, and it would still greatly benefit them.

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I don't think they are going to do dual role again, old feral was split into two specs for a reason.
You are also now able to respec anytime during combat, if you need to fullfil other role, you can just swap your spec.
I agree with you that the new spec can operate within DPS/Heal role with some boosting/debuffing utilities. That could work.

Again, I think Ebon Might could be the key to all of this. Ebon Might gives your allies a boost based on you performing abilities. With that in place, you could theoretically give a class a higher buff (or debuff) ceiling because their buffs aren't constant.


There's also abilities like Oppressing Roar, Overawe, Source of Magic, Regenerative Magic, or Unravel already in the class that offers some buff/debuff opportunities. Source of Magic especially could see a heavy boost in a spec such as this.

[Berkilak]

That really doesn't matter. Its entirely based on the hype it would generate and the increased number of subs it would bring. It could be the most unbalanced class Blizzard ever released, and it would still greatly benefit them.

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Again, I think Ebon Might could be the key to all of this. Ebon Might gives your allies a boost based on you performing abilities. With that in place, you could theoretically give a class a higher buff (or debuff) ceiling because their buffs aren't constant.


There's also abilities like Oppressing Roar, Overawe, Source of Magic, Regenerative Magic, or Unravel already in the class that offers some buff/debuff opportunities. Source of Magic especially could see a heavy boost in a spec such as this.

With Blizzard scaling tech, I also wouldn't be surprised if they simply played with the numbers to make a support more viable. Simplifying, you could do 100% of your damage when solo. When in a duo, you do 50% damage and the partner has theirs increased by 50%. When you're in a party, you do 20% and everyone else gets a 20% effectiveness buff. And so on. Obviously wouldn't play out so simply, but the point is that they have the tech to make it doable now without making it entirely useless or unreasonably overpowered.

[Teriz]

It doesn't really matter what the spec is like.

You'd have to be deluding yourself if you think, after all this, that nothing is happening.

Yeah, at this point its quite clear what this is. You literally have Neltharion saying that Evokers have three specializations as personified by the three Weryns. You can't justify that lore with a green-fire quest, because that doesn't augment your allies and you're still a Prevoker or a Devoker.

I mean, Blizzard could create an NPC black dragon spec that we see but can't play, but that would do nothing but piss off players who would do nothing but demand Blizzard make the spec playable. I seriously can't think of anything else this could be. As said above, the simplest answer is usually the right one, because anything else really makes zero sense with the new and old evidence that we have.

[Staccato]

Yes, there's a lot of powerful CDs that only one class can provide, such as Power Infusion, like you pointed out. However, and this is the kicker: it's just one cooldown. Now imagine one singular spec chock-full of such cooldowns, because that is the role of the spec: to provide such boost CDs to their party. Some classes having one powerful support CD is not a problem. One singular spec having many powerful support CDs is a problem.

You have got to relax on the hyperbole. You could give a mid range mid-of-pack damage dealer a DPS buff, a damage reduction buff and heck even a cooldown reduction buff. A LOT of the evoker's kit already is supportish - Giving another single spec access to Rescue isn't going to break anything. One thing you can bet on is that if this spec can augment A LOT, it won't do a ton of damage to make up for the fact that it offers 'augmentating' the raid.

Like the idea could mean anything. It could mean giving someone Spiritwalkers Grace for 5 seconds. It could be like Giving someone a lightning shield. We just don't know, but I doubt that it would subscribe to the traditional sense of "support." I think it's just gonna be a middle pack DPSer that will offer cute ways to give more throughput or survivability. Chill, its just one spec.

The reason why is blatantly obvious: it would require a big change to almost all the existing classes, who would most likely lose most if not all of their support abilities so that a new "support" role can be added and still be meaningful. It literally shakes up the status quo.

If it shakes up the status quo, great. Introducing a spec into the game will not make a paladin lose blessing of seasons nor would it take away from anyone else. Sure there might be some overlap but again the word they are using here is "augmenting". Its just a spec meant to help other classes do their job better.

[Ielenia]

What do we define as "support" abilities? Buffs? Heals? Utility? Damage mitigation?

Basically everything that would give 'support' to their allies. That comes in the form of buffs to allies such as damage increase, absorb shields, damage taken reduction, speed increase... to debuffs to enemies such as stuns, roots, slows, damage decrease, damage taken increase, reduced healing, etc.

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That really doesn't matter. Its entirely based on the hype it would generate and the increased number of subs it would bring. It could be the most unbalanced class Blizzard ever released, and it would still greatly benefit them.

That is completely contrary to what you're claiming. They would get more hype and more subs if the class was released from the get-go with that said third spec. The hype to get people to buy the expansion and subscribe is the expansion reveal. Anything else released during the expansion's lifetime is made with the intention of keeping people subbed.

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You have got to relax on the hyperbole. You could give a mid range mid-of-pack damage dealer a DPS buff, a damage reduction buff and heck even a cooldown reduction buff. A LOT of the evoker's kit already is supportish - Giving another single spec access to Rescue isn't going to break anything. One thing you can bet on is that if this spec can augment A LOT, it won't do a ton of damage to make up for the fact that it offers 'augmentating' the raid.

You accuse me of using "hyperbole", but so far you've done the exact opposite: you're not taking this seriously. You're understating the situation. This isn't about giving one ability to a single spec. Is about giving a lot of said abilities to a single spec.

[Staccato]

You accuse me of using "hyperbole", but so far you've done the exact opposite: you're not taking this seriously. You're understating the situation. This isn't about giving one ability to a single spec. Is about giving a lot of said abilities to a single spec.

You're right, I do understand. What part of "You could give a mid range mid-of-pack damage dealer a DPS buff, a damage reduction buff and heck even a cooldown reduction buff." do you not understand? You could give a whole new DPS class a simple rotation, and make the buttons of what they want to press utility or support and it wouldn't do a lot to this game. I believe (with this games interpretation of both "utility" and "support") that a spec surrounded by the idea of:

Giving Minor and (sometimes Major) buffs
Utility
Off Healing

At the cost of topping the meters is fine. Adding another healing class to the game would be redundant, making the Aspect that's meant to "augment" the other flights tank is going against what we are reading on WoWHead as we speak. It could only be a DPS class with little emphasis on damage and more emphasis on different ways of supporting the group. It's not like Devastation has exactly a billion buttons to press, but I am willing to bet a basic set of cooldowns (4-5 midrange cooldowns) for utility in various ways isn't breaking this game. But hey when it releases and we see it lets rendezvous here and see how earthshattering it'll be to your world then lol

[Teriz]

Looking over the Aberrus and some other stuff, a few things stuck out to me;

1. Sakareth himself has enhanced Evoker abilities. Is it possible that an Augmentation spec not only boosts the power of players, but also buff's the Evoker's abilities as well? That could be interesting, and make the spec feel more than a buff bot.

These abilities are Oppressing Howl, an increase of Oppressing Roar. Mass Disintegrate, an increase of Disintegrate. Searing Breath, an increase of Fire breath.

Perhaps when you enhance other players, as a side effect your abilities are also briefly enhanced? We see some of this with Sourcing Magic and Regenerative Magic in the Evoker tree.

2. Ebon Might has the makings of a key mechanic. It seems to align very well with both the concept of augmentation, and being a black dragon spell. The tooltip is a bit strange though, because it says that after 5 stacks it grants immunity from crowd control and interrupts to either the buffed person, or the caster. Either way, I see this possibly being a key spell for this spec.

3. The first set of datamined abilities: Jolt, Ascendancy, and the ability that increases the range of spells all align well with an augmentation spec.

Second set of datamined abilities;

4. Emerald Infusion is a self heal, nothing too noteworthy there, but Azure Prowess is pretty much the Evoker version of Power Infusion.

5. Inner Root: A lot of people scoffed at this ability thinking it was way too powerful to be a class ability. However, it is possible that Inner Root is an example of an enhanced ability for Warriors or Paladins. Essentially the Evoker could cast a spell on an ally and give them an enhanced ability for a brief time. I know it seems very powerful, but such an ability could be on a high cool down, and the enhanced spell could only last for a very short amount of time. In addition, if the effects are powerful enough, it might cause an Evoker player to have to carefully choose who to give the buff to. This could be similar to the old spell Symbiosis, but easier to manage since it wouldn't give the Evoker a unique spell from the class it's casting on.

As a side note, this spec being something different than other specs could be the reason why Blizzard delayed its release. Perhaps it needed more internal testing?

BTW, check out Chloromancers from RIFT for a possible way this spec could be being designed.

[Ielenia]

You're right, I do understand.

I said understating, not "understanding".

What part of "You could give a mid range mid-of-pack damage dealer a DPS buff, a damage reduction buff and heck even a cooldown reduction buff." do you not understand?

What I do not understand is how you can't see that can easily be a problematic issue! When your entire party (or worse, raid) survival relies on a single spec of a single class... that is not good design. Especially when said spec hasn't been properly tested, on top of also requiring a restructure of the "trinity" as well as adapting other classes to not have as many support stuff as they do.

[Teriz]

FYI, this could just be a tank spec whose niche is buffing their allies, and utilizing Enhancement Shaman style buffs and instant casts.

This is Emberthal's Weryn after all, and that's Emberthal in front;



And Evokers can use 2H Axes, Maces, and Swords.....

[Staccato]

What I do not understand is how you can't see that can easily be a problematic issue! When your entire party (or worse, raid) survival relies on a single spec of a single class... that is not good design. Especially when said spec hasn't been properly tested, on top of also requiring a restructure of the "trinity" as well as adapting other classes to not have as many support stuff as they do.

Why is deductive reasoning out the window. They aren't making a class that is going to require people to take it any more than we have currently. You are stuck on the idea of "support" when they are specifically calling it "augmentation." We don't know what that even looks like yet, but we do know that Blizzard currently has a ton of other DPS classes.

I get why you don't wanna speculate in favor for the class, but at least have some reason other than "Blizzard hasn't done it before." OK, so? We have a lot (and in comparison, even more than what was signaled for DH or DK) to put the hypothesis on. Are they planning on putting Dancer from ff14 in the game? No probably not. would it even be AST? no, probably not. I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere in the middle with a lean more into damage. This tier, you haven't even taken disc priests even if they have PI. Its not inherently a broken spell, even if you give it to another spec. You seem to be forgetting that even in the worst case scenario, we'd be getting a DPS support class that is on the lower end of DPS but makes up for the loss by giving other people more damage. This is balancing issue with a single spec and it's abilities, not every class.

Again this is all hypothetical - but at the very least there's plausible reason for it's existence. There's literally lore talking about it

[Ielenia]

You are stuck on the idea of "support" when they are specifically calling it "augmentation."

Warriors don't have a tank spec! They have a PROTECTION spec!
Shamans don't have a healing spec! They have a RESTORATION spec!
Paladins don't have a DPS spec! They have a RETRIBUTION spec!

Dude, you're going for semantics there. It doesn't mean what it's called, what matter is its role.

[Triceron]

Dude, you're going for semantics there. It doesn't mean what it's called, what matter is its role.

Then what do you think its role is? Or do you not think it will exist at all?

[Ielenia]

Then what do you think its role is? Or do you not think it will exist at all?

What are you talking about?

[loras]

That's the real kicker. I'm more skeptical than most, but at this point, Occam's Razor is dictating that there will be a third Evoker spec themed around the Black Dragonflight focusing on Support as a role. Which is wild. It violates so many preconceptions about how Blizzard has operated for the past 30 years. But what is the alternative? What explains all of this more convincingly?

Spock said it best, while quoting an ancestor of his:

Either that, or the truth is something we've not even conceived of.
It's a common mistake to think you've evaluated all possible options, but that's rarely the case, so finding the truth by eliminating the impossible rarely works out well in practice. Reality is not finitely defined after all.

That said.

It does seem to be pointing to a supporting black dragon spec.
Then again, tanks technically support as well, as do healers, so it remains to be seen how it will shape out.

[Staccato]

Warriors don't have a tank spec! They have a PROTECTION spec!
Shamans don't have a healing spec! They have a RESTORATION spec!
Paladins don't have a DPS spec! They have a RETRIBUTION spec!

Dude, you're going for semantics there. It doesn't mean what it's called, what matter is its role.

I really do wish that you could just report people for being a troll/purposefully obtuse so instead I'll just say that you and I both know that if Blizzard wanted to make it a true support, they would just call it that. By your own logic of this post they would just say "Support" because we already call tanks, heals and dps what they are. They didn't though, and this is intentional. Your lack of acknowledgement on the data we do have about this spec and along with your shallow arguments just can only be described as delusional, but good vibes.

Again, this is gonna be a DPS class with support utility. The data from the spells we've seen and even the in game lore directly provide this concept, and that's always going to weigh more than someone going "no bc i said so" lol

[Teriz]

Again, this is gonna be a DPS class with support utility. The data from the spells we've seen and even the in game lore directly provide this concept, and that's always going to weigh more than someone going "no bc i said so" lol

I'm not so sure about that. The Adamant Vigil, the Weryn in question led by Emberthal, is depicted wielding melee weapons. The Black Dragon abilities we currently possess in the Evoker class are defensive abilities that could easily be used by a tank, and Evokers can equip 2H axes, swords, and maces, weapons that spell casters can't really use. Finally, there could be space for a tank that enhances the power of their allies, and tanks by default make the groups they lead better. I could see a scenario where Neltharion views the Weryn that utilizes his dragon essence as the "lead" weryn. Also most people view Black Dragon spec as a spec that should tank.

Also Augmentation is a synonym for Enhancement, and there is no mail tank spec. Those factoids might not mean anything, but they're there.

I know Blizzard has been seemingly against the idea of giving Evokers a tank spec, but the players have been badgering Blizzard about a tank spec for the class since they were announced.

[Staccato]

Also Augmentation is a synonym for Enhancement, and there is no mail tank spec. Those factoids might not mean anything, but they're there.

I know Blizzard has been seemingly against the idea of giving Evokers a tank spec, but the players have been badgering Blizzard about a tank spec for the class since they were announced.

Yes but we know blizzard wants the class as a ranged class. If anything we should be giving shamans a tank spec. They already are pretty much set up for it.

[Xath]

I think it's a tank spec with support style traits this still needs to be playable in 5 man content and if it's pure support and good enough to be played in 5 man content it will be ungodly overpowered in raids.