Play With More Friends with Cross-Faction Guilds

[Pheraz]

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If they could be Paladins, sure. But they can't.

Ok you must admit that this could eventually be a little bit subjective? I guess you are a paladin fan?
I am a semi paladin fan and totally rock the high void elf fantasy on hunter, mage, warrior, monk, warlock and deathknight twinks with red/blonde hair, fair skin and blue eyes. But I don't want to turn this in yet another high elf thread so I stop right here. Maybe they will add a VE Paladin some day who knows

[Lorca]

Good, big thumbs up.

Now...let me queue Random BG's with the opposite faction too....please.

This and also random dungeons for leveling and, why not, any open world content that isn't faction related!

[Squigglyo]

Sorry if you got offended. I didn't mean to be presumptuous. I didn't know if you RP'ed or not. I decided to take a wild guess and assume you didn't. It's hard for me to imagine a person playing WoW for it's RPG elements considering:

• Handholding, voice acted quests where you follow around NPCs like a baby while exposition is dumped on you. The story is about the NPC. You are just a there to witness them talking to themselves.
• Some of the worst world-building and story in the genre. The Jailor..
• Faction leaders in charge of most of the story more of the time (Thrall then Wizard then Slyvanus and now Dragons again)
• No morality system. You play as lawful good only. Your character is the hero. You save the villagers. You stop the darkness, etc
• Most of the game is spent inside a handful of instances that you run over and over and over. What RP is explaining why you are killing the same boss every week?
• No player interaction. When was the last time you /s someone in the open world?
• Gigantic RP decisions made for you: You are the Archdruid or the High Priest or the Highlord and you have to use Ashbringer or Doomhammer. Pretty hard to picture your character as wielder of the Ashbringer when in your class hall litreally a hundred people are also holding the Ashbringer.
• No meaningful decisions possible in the game. This isn't KotOR. You play the handful of quests you're given, and then grind iLVL. Don't really see what fantasy you're playing out here. The only real decision you can make about your character is their race/transmogs.

Genuinely apologies if you are really an RPG fan. I think you are. But I don't see how WoW is an RPG at all. I guess maybe if you enjoy saving the world over and over and over than WoW might be satisfying. You got me there. You can defend cross-faction guilds, but saying it's for more RP is just ridiculous.

Thats a whole lot of words for 'I dont know what an RPG actually is'

[liyroot]

Thats a whole lot of words for 'I dont know what an RPG actually is'

You and I just like different games. My favorite game is Fallout New Vegas. I think that's a perfect RPG.

[Lochton]

Play With More Friends with Cross-Faction Guilds

No longer will you have to wish your Horde heart could find a home with the amazing Alliance guild you just cleared a random raid with. Nor do you have to don a cheery Alliance front after wishing a fond farewell to some fantastic Horde heroes after a successful Heroic.

We're blurring the faction line for guilds and allowing players to create and join same-realm guilds with their friends from the opposite faction when the Embers of Neltharion update arrives on May 2.

Some things to remember with cross-faction guilds:

• Guild affiliation with the Alliance or Horde will depend on the faction of the Guild Leader, and guild achievements and vendors will still reflect the guild's primary faction.
  
• Guild members of the opposite faction will benefit from unlocked shared perks but cannot contribute to specific achievements. As an example, Alliance members of a Horde guild could not contribute progress towards the "Alliance Slayer" guild achievement.
  
• Guild repairs and social conveniences, like shared chat, will be available to opposite-faction guild members.
  
• Players must be Battle.net friends or part of the same Battle.net community to invite or receive an invitation to an opposite-faction guild on the same realm.

Opposite-faction guildmates can only play communally inside instances; they'll still be considered Unfriendly to each other (or Hostile in War Mode) in the outdoor world.

---

We look forward to you continuing your adventure through the Dragon Isles when Embers of Neltharion goes live on May 2.

Such a joke. A glorified community function at the current, only made for organised content, and not social groups, or cooperative people.

[Loveliest]

Such a joke. A glorified community function at the current, only made for organised content, and not social groups, or cooperative people.

So better without or better with?
There's always steps to things. There's always reasons to be unhappy. But what about, but what about...

[Squigglyo]

You and I just like different games. My favorite game is Fallout New Vegas. I think that's a perfect RPG.

Cool.

Absolutly nothing to do with what I/you said though.

[Lochton]

So better without or better with?
There's always steps to things. There's always reasons to be unhappy. But what about, but what about...

Of course, when they went with a fraction of people even though it has been proven that it could be done the right way? Organised content players should do theirs but guilds for testing should start out on the common ground.

[rrayy]

You mean the "plot" that's been irrelevant or a detriment in almost every expansion outside of...one...?

Your opinion, not fact. Horde vs Allaince has been the game identity. Blizzard is now trying to erase that.

[liyroot]

Cool.

Absolutly nothing to do with what I/you said though.

You think WoW is an RPG. That's because you don't know what an RPG is. I'll prove that now.

Role playing doesn't mean, "play this character in this story". That definition would describe every game with a story. Are you arguing that Call of Duty is an RPG? How about Glover? Is Glover an RPG?
An RPG is a game where you create a character and it's history, and you go on the story that you want to go on. An example is Skyrim, where you character has no past and you can do anything you want in the game.
WoW characters have no history but you have to play the story described for you in the game. There is one story ("save the dragons from satan" for example) and you have to do it or you can't play the game. Moral decisions are made for you. You have to save XYZ race because they are good. You can't choose to kill them. There is no decision making for character development in WoW outside your class.
WoW is a single player story loot-grinder pretending to be an MMO. Very similar to Diablo 4.

Finally, WoW is reducing the RPG aspects of the game with the cross-faction guilds. Cross-faction guilds aren't a RP decision. Players will race-swap and you will have humans or orcs in your raid without any story elements explaining why this is suddenly possible. Cross-faction guilds require no effort to obtain. A group of "horde" suddenly abandoning the war and deciding to work with "alliance" who also abandon the war should be a big deal. Maybe your guild would be outcast and hunted by both factions. There is no gameplay consequence. Cross-faction guilds are a money move for Activision. They can get the dying faction access to raiding (the only content in the game) and they can get a bunch of cash from race-transfers which are essentially skins now.

[Jtbrig7390]

Your opinion, not fact. Horde vs Allaince has been the game identity. Blizzard is now trying to erase that.

Actually what Jester said is fact.

We have teamed up to kill dragons, gods and even Death itself. The Horde Vs Alliance shit hasn't mattered in ages and its about time the game moved away from it. Even in lore there is for example Orc's who actually agree more with the alliance than the horde.

I hope by the end of DF all the faction shit is gone outside of battlegrounds and select zones.

[deenman]

I dunno, developing a character identity within the confines of the limitations of the existing world and their reactions to it.
That's where the flavours at. But I'm gonna leave it here before this turns into a debate about what Role play is.

exept those confinements make no sense from a roleplay standpoint,whats stoping random races from forming their own group besides arbitray gameplay limitations,because its not lore ones

[Spikeychris]

Cross faction guilds is nice but I don't think it solves the main problem on alot of servers and that is limited populations. Cross server guilds (or hell getting rid of the concept of servers entirely) would have a much bigger impact imo as this change is nice for someone who wants to play on a heavily faction inbalanced server but does nothing to help those on lower population ones. If anything this will encourage even more people onto the already heavily populated servers as now it doesn't matter which faction you play on them.

[Stickiler]

You think WoW is an RPG. That's because you don't know what an RPG is. I'll prove that now.

Role playing doesn't mean, "play this character in this story". That definition would describe every game with a story.

That's cool if that's your opinion, but that's at odds with the gaming community at large. Look no further than the Final Fantasy series(Which is widely regarded as one of the best RPG series' in existence), where not a single entry in that series(Maybe FFXI? Haven't seen much of that) allows you to be anything other than a strictly defined, story-threaded character in a world created by the developers.

Personally I think they should add additional information to the genres for games like Skyrim/Fallout/Cyberpunk, maybe something like "Player Chosen/Driven Role Playing Game", so that people who like specifically that subgenre of RPG can more easily find games they'll enjoy, but unfortunately Games Developers just pick RPG for all of the types of RPG, even though there's decently large differences in structure.

[Soikona]

Your opinion, not fact. Horde vs Allaince has been the game identity. Blizzard is now trying to erase that.

In your own words, your opinion not fact. Blizzard is not trying to show that the game is more than just horde Vs alliance, as it always has been.

[shane brannigan]

exept those confinements make no sense from a roleplay standpoint,whats stoping random races from forming their own group besides arbitray gameplay limitations,because its not lore ones

prejudice, lived experience, trauma, all kind of shit. this isn't like 4 generations later this is people who've been at war more or less consistently for like 35 years.
If I recall the new timeline has the dark portal opening opening to end of WC3 was year 0-25, and after that every expansion happened back to back each being one year. Meaning we've been in a ultra efficient state of super war for like 10 years straight with the 3 times we worked together quickly devolving back into open hostility.
Then we had like a 5 year break after shadowlands. I think outside of fringe cases like the undead not hating their direct human relatives most every day people would still hate the other faction.

So yeah the confinements make perfect sense from a Role play perspective.
Granted from a RP perspective you can be the one guy that's somehow tolerant and that would be RP justification for forming dungeon groups. But until we have non aligned races meaning minimal negative interactions guilds make no sense narratively, because that would mean mass social acceptance. That or somehow everyone has collective dementia. pretty sure random tauren child remember seeing his mother cut down at taurajo massacre 12 years ago would hate most alliance members, and like pop gnome skull under their hoof when they get the chance and nobodies looking. And that's story worth telling.

But like I said, Mechanically necessary given the alliance player base has all been wiped out.

[deenman]

So yeah the confinements make perfect sense from a Role play perspective.

no it doesnt,not everyone suffered and would hate the oposite faction,lore is full of examples of friendly relationships,seriously,is this a joke?

[shane brannigan]

no it doesnt,not everyone suffered and would hate the oposite faction,lore is full of examples of friendly relationships,seriously,is this a joke?

Ok, I'm just gonna accept you're a troll.

That or you pay no attention to the story, Not every orc is in the horde.
There are a few Fringe cases of people being friendly under specific circumstance like voljin and tyrathan but that is 0.1% of the interactions between the factions, and newer examples are narrative ass pulls.
90% of the interactions are fighting, seeing the horde betray you at the broken shore and guards telling a widow "sorry your husband died during the siege of dazar alor". "Cuz guess what lore as written has little baring on RP, what is RP is a Woman becoming a rouge because the bread winner of the house was crushed by a 20foot gorilla in a troll city. And know's nothing apart from her husband is dead and it's the trolls fault." maybe possibly you have some goblin selling black market cactus apples to a dude in ironforge using a steamwheedle cartel as a middle man.

Cross faction guilds aren't "very RP" which is your original take. It's player agency, which while good is detrimental to ROLE PLAY because most people don't RP and they're just whatever they feel in moment which is cool but it's not RP. Gor'Dresh the manslayer suddenly being forced into a guild full of humans over night because cross faction opened up and his GM recruited the progress starved players as bench warmers does not = RP. It would probably even ruin his immersion.

Now start engaging with examples to support it being RP, all you've done is "not everyone", but guess what the fruit merchant who doesn't care about war is still suffering as a result of it when his customers die, he can't import his goods because dazar alor was sacked, and the government forces him to sell his wares to them at a discount to provide to the war effort. I swear I'm gonna start giving this topic the same level of engagement I receive.

[Squigglyo]

You think WoW is an RPG. That's because you don't know what an RPG is. I'll prove that now.

Role playing doesn't mean, "play this character in this story". That definition would describe every game with a story. Are you arguing that Call of Duty is an RPG? How about Glover? Is Glover an RPG?
An RPG is a game where you create a character and it's history, and you go on the story that you want to go on. An example is Skyrim, where you character has no past and you can do anything you want in the game.
WoW characters have no history but you have to play the story described for you in the game. There is one story ("save the dragons from satan" for example) and you have to do it or you can't play the game. Moral decisions are made for you. You have to save XYZ race because they are good. You can't choose to kill them. There is no decision making for character development in WoW outside your class.
WoW is a single player story loot-grinder pretending to be an MMO. Very similar to Diablo 4.

Finally, WoW is reducing the RPG aspects of the game with the cross-faction guilds. Cross-faction guilds aren't a RP decision. Players will race-swap and you will have humans or orcs in your raid without any story elements explaining why this is suddenly possible. Cross-faction guilds require no effort to obtain. A group of "horde" suddenly abandoning the war and deciding to work with "alliance" who also abandon the war should be a big deal. Maybe your guild would be outcast and hunted by both factions. There is no gameplay consequence. Cross-faction guilds are a money move for Activision. They can get the dying faction access to raiding (the only content in the game) and they can get a bunch of cash from race-transfers which are essentially skins now.

Again, a lot of words for 'WoW doesnt fit the mold for my very precise definition for an RPG so im going to PRETEND everyone else is wrong'

Warcraft is an RPG. A game doesnt need every rpg element/trope in it to be an RPG.
Sure, the quest direction is linear, but so is pretty much every RPG, despite how unliner they pretend to be. Even Skyrim... if you play it for completion, im sure you'de end up in the same ending every time. Hell, if you kill certain NPCs, you are locked out of completing certain quests, pretty crappy unless your intended role was 'brick your game'.
Warcraft could be considered an RPG-lite, but its still an RPG.


Even Runescape, one of, it not the most well known RPG, is completly linear. Every decision is made for you, every outcome pretermined. But still, an RPG.

For whatever reason, your stuck on a morality system. Most RPGs dont have them anymore, mostly because they were bad. You either had to do everything the boring way 'good', or be evil which locked you out of most questlines, towns, etc. Morality doesnt make a game an RPG. Neither does pretty much everything you are clinging to.

Like it or not, Warcraft is an RPG. You just dont like the RPG elements that it provides and miss the ones it doesnt include.

[liyroot]

Again, a lot of words for 'WoW doesnt fit the mold for my very precise definition for an RPG so im going to PRETEND everyone else is wrong'

Warcraft is an RPG. A game doesnt need every rpg element/trope in it to be an RPG.
Sure, the quest direction is linear, but so is pretty much every RPG, despite how unliner they pretend to be. Even Skyrim... if you play it for completion, im sure you'de end up in the same ending every time. Hell, if you kill certain NPCs, you are locked out of completing certain quests, pretty crappy unless your intended role was 'brick your game'.
Warcraft could be considered an RPG-lite, but its still an RPG.


Even Runescape, one of, it not the most well known RPG, is completly linear. Every decision is made for you, every outcome pretermined. But still, an RPG.

For whatever reason, your stuck on a morality system. Most RPGs dont have them anymore, mostly because they were bad. You either had to do everything the boring way 'good', or be evil which locked you out of most questlines, towns, etc. Morality doesnt make a game an RPG. Neither does pretty much everything you are clinging to.

Like it or not, Warcraft is an RPG. You just dont like the RPG elements that it provides and miss the ones it doesnt include.

Alright I'll admit I'm wrong on this one.