I'm still up for a mega server with no sharding for retail

[Gimlix]

By the time you finally got the server to let you release, you'd be dead again.

That was on even dead servers.

You're off the mark on this. Even South shore vs Tarren Mill kills the game.

And yet that experience was AMAZING, you do realise people play MMORPGS just for that insane weird once in a life time experience.
Why do you want the game to be so streamlined, basic and 0 issues? People play these kinda games to have events that are just INSANE.

Yes Oondasta was insane and lagfest and crazy, but it sticks with you forever.

What does WoW offer since legion? There has rarely been anything worth sticking around for, only patches and even those are basic that once the week is over you seen it all. Only people that stick around are dedicated raiders and even they log once the raid is over.

[Utrrabbit]

Gimlix is known to just flat out lie or make up even more and more ludacris nonsense.

[Gimlix]

You literally have 0 clue what you are talking about.

THE ONLY REASON THEY ARE STABLE IS THE SHARDING.

Your argument is invalid and moot as the very reason you give saying they are the most stable in the industry is the exact thing you are against.

WoW was stable way before sharding too, stop giving sharding as reason why the game is stable. Stupid argument.
Back then WoW had massive world events on a daily basis by the hundreds.

[kranur]

Lag was horrible during community feast just a few months ago ... even WITH sharding. WoW cannot handle large populations

[Gimlix]

Gimlix is known to just flat out lie or make up even more and more ludacris nonsense.

Tell me some lies. Ur just flat out saying nonsense for the sake of wanting to.

[Orange Joe]

This is such a bad argument, i experienced 300 man raids during WoW peakdays and it barely effected lag, AV is 40v40 too and no lag either.
50ish people is just DISGUSTINGLY low and bad for a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

People forget how much fun a massively overcrowded world is and prefer convenience over immersion and fun.

whole post is bullshit. I've seen major server lag in 25m raids......

[Gimlix]

Lag was horrible during community feast just a few months ago ... even WITH sharding. WoW cannot handle large populations

WoW could handle way bussier events then the feast and it sure as hell can today.

[Jester Joe]

And yet that experience was AMAZING, you do realise people play MMORPGS just for that insane weird once in a life time experience.
Why do you want the game to be so streamlined, basic and 0 issues? People play these kinda games to have events that are just INSANE.

Yes Oondasta was insane and lagfest and crazy, but it sticks with you forever.

What does WoW offer since legion? There has rarely been anything worth sticking around for, only patches and even those are basic that once the week is over you seen it all. Only people that stick around are dedicated raiders and even they log once the raid is over.

No, it wasn't amazing, it was frustrating and annoying to get one shot the second the server finally responded, and then that would cause 10 other people to get one shot because oondastas chain nuke had no cap to how many targets it could bounce to at the start.

[FelPlague]

This is such a bad argument, i experienced 300 man raids during WoW peakdays and it barely effected lag, AV is 40v40 too and no lag either.
50ish people is just DISGUSTINGLY low and bad for a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

People forget how much fun a massively overcrowded world is and prefer convenience over immersion and fun.

The game was FAR more simple back then.

[Utrrabbit]

WoW was stable way before sharding too, stop giving sharding as reason why the game is stable. Stupid argument.
Back then WoW had massive world events on a daily basis by the hundreds.

No it wasnt, You are so full of BS. Literally nothing you havd said is true or has been true.

[FelPlague]

This is such a bad argument, i experienced 300 man raids during WoW peakdays and it barely effected lag, AV is 40v40 too and no lag either.
50ish people is just DISGUSTINGLY low and bad for a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

People forget how much fun a massively overcrowded world is and prefer convenience over immersion and fun.

The game was FAR more simple back then.
reminder the buff/debuff limit existed back then to literally specifically make sure large groups could be together without the game lagging.

[Gimlix]

No it wasnt, You are so full of BS. Literally nothing you havd said is true or has been true.

Oh then the memories i seen infront my own eyes were all lies, the daily 40 man raids on capitals, were all fictional.. Sure thing bud.

[Orange Joe]

No, it wasn't amazing, it was frustrating and annoying to get one shot the second the server finally responded, and then that would cause 10 other people to get one shot because oondastas chain nuke had no cap to how many targets it could bounce to at the start.

I remember many people bitching about WB's in MoP. The lag was so bad they couldn't even get 1 attack off to hit the boss and get credit.

[Gimlix]

The game was FAR more simple back then.
reminder the buff/debuff limit existed back then to literally specifically make sure large groups could be together without the game lagging.

Plenty of options to make the game lag less instead players seeing eachother, like removing area effects once u reach a limit.
This is 2023, we talking about a billion dollar company, you aint telling me there is nothing they can do then just use sharding.

- - - Updated - - -

I remember many people bitching about WB's in MoP. The lag was so bad they couldn't even get 1 attack off to hit the boss and get credit.

Yet MoP saw more players and stability since the moment they added sharding. I wonder why.

[Jester Joe]

I remember many people bitching about WB's in MoP. The lag was so bad they couldn't even get 1 attack off to hit the boss and get credit.

And both Oondasta and galleon only spawned like, twice a week maybe, it was not fun.

[liyroot]

People who like sharing don't really like MMOS. You don't want to interact with other players. You just want to get your "loot/rewards" as expediently as possible. Imaging the Opening of Ahn-Qiraj with sharding. Just right clicking mobs in an empty map and get your loot. The game would just be a faming simulator. And thats exactly what you guys want it seems.

[Orange Joe]

Yet MoP saw more players and stability since the moment they added sharding. I wonder why.

cause it was still coming down from it's peak at the end of wrath/beginning of cata. As far as stable, define stable as I remember many "world server down" issues.

[Utrrabbit]

Tell me some lies. Ur just flat out saying nonsense for the sake of wanting to.

Every single word you have uttered in this thread when it comes to any large event.

Every one was a lie if you said you did not lag.

Back in 2004 PCs most PC could barelt handle WoW, this is just known facts.

You even trying to say you never lagged in a 300v300 pvp battle is pure and utter BS. This has never happened in the history of the game

TMvSS never reached higher than 50 on each side.

AV was also know to be one of the laggiest BGs in the history of the game.

[God Save The King]

The cost of additional players in the same location is not linear. 20 people in a small space is not double the cost of handling 10.

Ignoring all the player's actions and activities except for movement, each player needs to actively be aware of everyone else's position and current heading. If you've ever played side-by-side with someone, you will actively notice a delay between when you turn your character and when it changes on someone else's screen.

In a simple example, say there are 5 people. Each person needs to know the location of everyone else. So that's 4 updates for each 5 players. Or 20. To handle 10 people, its 9 updates for 10 people, or 90.

To simplify it, the formula just for movement updates takes n(n-1) updates.

Let's compare a world with 500 players versus 10 shards of 50 players. That's 500*499 = 249,500. Versus 10 * 50*49 = 24,500. Or less than 10% of the processing power.

Again this is all just for moving people.

Combat states, damage, dodges/misses/blocks/parries, jumping, mounting, casting spells, handling NPCs, sending updates for terrains/textures, etc. All of that is far more expensive the more people you have.

In computing, we often talk about a specific notation that tells us how expensive an operation is. For an MMO, the cost of adding an additional player can be basically represented by the equation n^2. Quadratic growth.

So doubling the population will take 4 times the resources.



Now a common counter is 'but back in 2006 we had more people in a space'! Yeah and lag was awful. Additionally the game was far, far simpler to accomodate large populations. If you ran WotLK built bespoke (not on the DF engine), you could probably have about 4-5x the population in an area compared to 2008. This is because server tech is about 20x better than 2008.

Blizzard opted to use the stronger computers to make a better (in their view) game with more moving parts, instead of stuffing more people into the same virtual space.

An unsharded mega-server might be possible if they dramatically reduced the complexity of the game and all the moving parts, but even then I think the game servers would basically crash around 3-4k people in a small space.

[Utrrabbit]

Oh then the memories i seen infront my own eyes were all lies, the daily 40 man raids on capitals, were all fictional.. Sure thing bud.

40 man raids on the capitals (which I did) would crash entire servers and lag out everyone in the capital.

Again you even saying that you never lagged out orcservers did not have stability issues is plain BS.