Was the alliance holding the Nelves back?

[Mace]

Dunno about you but ever since xfaction m+ queuing etc, I have notice a hell of a lot more night elf players...

Is it more people picking the race? or just that most of the alliance hardcore lot were Nelf players held back by their longer queues and feewer chances? Or did a lot of people switch their horde toons to Nelves?

Wish we had some accurate stat of race population.

I've heard a fair few horde players remark switching to alliance toons when xfaction guilding opens up, I wonder what it would look like then.

[Psychotrip]

Edit: LOL I just realized you were talking about mechanics and not story. I just had a lot of pent up Night Elf frustration and I guess it all spilled out at once!

All I know is the Perpetual Cucking of the Night Elf has only become more transparent as the series has gone on. My first player was a night elf Druid. They fascinated me.

But everything unique and...well...competent about them has been drained by years of Warfing, a lack of interest (or even disdain) from the dev team, a general disdain for the series roots, an obsession with making humans the main characters, and (i'm just gonna say it) years of sexist freaks running the show at Blizzard, not liking the idea of a woman without trauma or a society of warrior-women.

Night Elves were some of the coolest "ancient elves" I've seen in fiction. This goes back to the original WC3 concept art and dev notes, much of which never got explored as the games went on. They were this fusion of wood elf, high elf, and dark elf tropes that melded together into something wholly unique. The women were warlike, graceful, and stealthy. The guys were these hulking, jacked-as-fuck , semi-feral beastmen (this was only in the concepts) who mostly lived in the wilds, the wisest of whom became Druids wielding the raw ferocity of nature.

And where are the Night Elves now? What have they accomplished? What have they achieved? What have they gained?

Last I played Alliance, they were crying on the docks of a human kingdom, mourning the (absolutely meaningless) loss of their entire civilization. But, the final straw for me (before Teldrassil) was what happened with the Nightborne.

Look, I'm a Horde boy at heart, but Nightborne should have gone to the Alliance. It's kind of a laughable decision for the sake of giving each faction the same amount of allied races (and who cares??). The nightborne would have fit in perfectly with the Highborne Night Elves that already exist in the story (and have been ignored for years). They could have updated the Dire Maul npcs to look more like Nightborne. I mean, how many times were Zandalari Trolls reworked?

Nightborne should have been an entire "Highborne" allied race, drawing from Suramar, Dire Maul, and other forgotten pockets of sorcerous night elf nobles. All finally joining forces under Darnassus.

Instead they gave the Horde a second magic elf race that struggles with mana-addiction, after they spent years softening and watering down the edgy demon elves we already had. So now the only accomplishments we can celebrate for night elves are spread thin across two factions, diluting both sides in the process. Nightborne feel redundant with Blood Elves in the Horde, and we already have that problem with Darkspear and Zandalari Trolls. But at least adding the Zandalari was a move that made sense.

But back to "traditional" Night Elves. Even in Legion it felt like the identity of Night Elves was being hollowed out. All the npcs (especially the women) just spout vapid nature-loving nonsense about picking pretty flowers. Where are the vicious warrior women who scared the orcs so much they were afraid to go near TREES?

They're dead. Night Elves, as a playable race, are dead. We have generic wood elves now who can't EVER seem to catch a break.

[Mace]

Edit: LOL I just realized you were talking about mechanics and not story. I just had a lot of pent up Night Elf frustration and I guess it all spilled out at once!

All I know is the Perpetual Cucking of the Night Elf has only become more transparent as the series has gone on. My first player was a night elf Druid. They fascinated me.

But everything unique and...well...competent about them has been drained by years of Warfing, a lack of interest (or even disdain) from the dev team, a general disdain for the series roots, an obsession with making humans the main characters, and (i'm just gonna say it) years of sexist freaks running the show at Blizzard, not liking the idea of a woman without trauma or a society of warrior-women.

Night Elves were some of the coolest "ancient elves" I've seen in fiction. This goes back to the original WC3 concept art and dev notes, much of which never got explored as the games went on. They were this fusion of wood elf, high elf, and dark elf tropes that melded together into something wholly unique. The women were warlike, graceful, and stealthy. The guys were these hulking, jacked-as-fuck , semi-feral beastmen (this was only in the concepts) who mostly lived in the wilds, the wisest of whom became Druids wielding the raw ferocity of nature.

And where are the Night Elves now? What have they accomplished? What have they achieved? What have they gained?

Last I played Alliance, they were crying on the docks of a human kingdom, mourning the (absolutely meaningless) loss of their entire civilization. But, the final straw for me (before Teldrassil) was what happened with the Nightborne.

Look, I'm a Horde boy at heart, but Nightborne should have gone to the Alliance. It's kind of a laughable decision for the sake of giving each faction the same amount of allied races (and who cares??). The nightborne would have fit in perfectly with the Highborne Night Elves that already exist in the story (and have been ignored for years). They could have updated the Dire Maul npcs to look more like Nightborne. I mean, how many times were Zandalari Trolls reworked?

Nightborne should have been an entire "Highborne" allied race, drawing from Suramar, Dire Maul, and other forgotten pockets of sorcerous night elf nobles. All finally joining forces under Darnassus.

Instead they gave the Horde a second magic elf race that struggles with mana-addiction, after they spent years softening and watering down the edgy demon elves we already had. So now the only accomplishments we can celebrate for night elves are spread thin across two factions, diluting both sides in the process. Nightborne feel redundant with Blood Elves in the Horde, and we already have that problem with Darkspear and Zandalari Trolls. But at least adding the Zandalari was a move that made sense.

But back to "traditional" Night Elves. Even in Legion it felt like the identity of Night Elves was being hollowed out. All the npcs (especially the women) just spout vapid nature-loving nonsense about picking pretty flowers. Where are the vicious warrior women who scared the orcs so much they were afraid to go near TREES?

They're dead. Night Elves, as a playable race, are dead. We have generic wood elves now who can't EVER seem to catch a break.

Very well said. A piece I could have written myself and is some comfort to know there others who have seen this and noticed this decline too.

It’s incredible to believe they actually had ms something not just genuinely feeling unique in the over saturated eofntrope but was actually highly liked, mysteries and interesting to a lot of players.


They dropped night elves fast and hard. You can easily see that when you compare them to blood elf development and the uplifting they got for their model remake and just the lame and confused sun optimal way both nightnelves and Nightborne have been developed, especially after the major u turn in the Suramar storyline that’s placed the Nightborne on the horde they converted to blood elf clones adding no value and offering near zero distinctiveness.


But yes it was about gameplay and the current player pop as I have noticed a lot more night elf toons showing up in m+ Runs.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I think that you are reaching for a relevant topic to include Night Elves in.

[Vaedan]

I actually feel like I meet Alliance way more often, not just night elves. Last few weeks, WM bonus is just 10-15%, meaning populace which participates in War Mode is somewhat even.

As for night elves, I noticed most rogues I encounter in PvP are now night elves. I guess another re-stealth really strong for them.

[Deneios]

Double vanish is a great tool and ability to drop out of combat is pretty good for other classes as well in dungeons.

[Mace]

I think that you are reaching for a relevant topic to include Night Elves in.

I disagrree, it's quite a valid topic, I have noticed a lot more night elves in every high level group I've gone into, more than humans even and void elves, which is a bit surprising, but then it's harder to spot a void elf, i just tend to assume it's a blood elf most of the time

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Nighelfs seem to be the french in WoW. They never win a war. They got hit hard by Afrasiabis version of Sylvanas and may not retaliate. Because peace. Their tree got destroyed. And even if it was a rotten tree, it was their home.

If i was Team Christie Golden, i would make the Nightelfs settle in Auberdine. And live there in peace for all eternity. That is, until the next horde warchief evolves.

It didn't start there, and their recent tragedy shows a totally lack of love for their race.

Night elves had their greatest catstrophe 10,000 years ago, in a world ending war that has a ba trilogy and could have been both a game and a film... they don't need to relive that or go through similar again

The whole point of wow was their rebuilding stage... 10,000 years of long vigil, without civilization in a war hunt for the legion and hiding Azeroth finally ends in the Battle of Mount Hyjal when the legion return -- the night elves have their second change, as this ends that period.

The new night elves that follow should be a combination of both ages, to build the brightest future yet and the strongest version of themselves - they are deisgned to bring the very best of both the Dark elf and forest elf tropes in a unique star orientated focus - the developers said so themselves.

Wow was to start that journey that we see and read the conclusions of the two former massive struggles in the War of the Ancients and the 3rd war at mount huyjal

The night elves decimated twice, but both their Well of eternity and their Tree and their goddess survive - they no longer have magical restrictions for hte legion sake which should open an era of strength in both arcane and nature of both eras, adn the restoration of the full breadth of the priesthood that had only been operating as scout/hunters tot hat point.

Yet we saw nothing, they've been totally wasted, no depth to any of their interesting or curious aspects.. even the Teldrassil design you wouldn't even know it was night time -- it isn't until we see Suramar and Val'sharah that you get the idea of a Night elf city and a night elf forest - dark and mysterious.

what a waste, also the demon hunters were wasted, but at least they returned as a class, so they'll be around for a while.

[Shadowferal]

[B] Night Elves were some of the coolest "ancient elves" I've seen in fiction. This goes back to the original WC3 concept art and dev notes, much of which never got explored as the games went on. They were this fusion of wood elf, high elf, and dark elf tropes that melded together into something wholly unique. The women were warlike, graceful, and stealthy. The guys were these hulking, jacked-as-fuck , semi-feral beastmen (this was only in the concepts) who mostly lived in the wilds, the wisest of whom became Druids wielding the raw ferocity of nature.

In my revision of the lore, not much will have changed. Except that they'll be an independent faction. They're past xenophobia broken through by the shared Druidism of the Tauren. To the NElves, the Tauren represent the sunlight to NElf moonlight.
And yet despite Tauren influence, NElf shadow, savagery, and silence are the bywords for how they view other races. (They should have always been the best assassins ingame.)

Anyway that's my revision.

[Mace]

I actually feel like I meet Alliance way more often, not just night elves. Last few weeks, WM bonus is just 10-15%, meaning populace which participates in War Mode is somewhat even.

As for night elves, I noticed most rogues I encounter in PvP are now night elves. I guess another re-stealth really strong for them.

for PvE, I've noticed a great many rogues too, but also druids, priests and magi. Hunters too, but i don't see that much of htem for mm+ where they were staple last fixture.

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In my revision of the lore, not much will have changed. Except that they'll be an independent faction. They're past xenophobia broken through by the shared Druidism of the Tauren. To the NElves, the Tauren represent the sunlight to NElf moonlight.
And yet despite Tauren influence, NElf shadow, savagery, and silence are the bywords for how they view other races. (They should have always been the best assassins ingame.)

Anyway that's my revision.

I would agree with all but the tauren, they were never designed to be part of the night elves or their philosophy, Tauren druidism was thrown in to give the horde the druid class. Which compared to orcs, trolls, forsaken - seemed the best candidates in the then horde roster.

In retrospect, without changing too much, I would have designed Tauren to have a totally different version of druids, one that had no arcane magic in it, just the plants and shapeshfiting. They'd have a kodo shapeshift for tanking and a Matadaur/bull for dps, fitting their hunting nature. , Gazelle for flight form, they'd be based on the balance of the seasons which is closer to their shamanistic elemental heritage, not the balance of arcane and nature day and night.

But back then, blizzard hadn't thought of different concepts races could use for the same class because classes like druids WERE only for 1 race, and they'd sooner have made a unique class like the Tauren chieftain for that race.

An Enhanced Night elf State
As for my vision of night elves, they'd have been as vast and varied as humans, their long history would spawn even broader communities,

• You'd have the civilization types i.e. traders, diplomats, arcane users, priests, scholars etc restoring their cities , joining long lost communities like those in Suramar, Darnassus and Eldre'thalas.
• But then you'd also have the deep forest types too, totally content with nature, and to be fully in it, reclusive, exclusive, these would be the families of the druids, who'd keep the druid (not necessarily night elf) view of the splendour of nature no eleven craft could match.
• You'd have the fel demon Illidari, they'd be angry but very possessive of their race, hardcore , taking the tough decisions, ruthless against the legion but not evil -, they'd be shunned by the people even after being recognised as heroes, because fel is foul, it's that simple, yet they'd be admired, have great glory, but the almost impossible high price they have to pay would keep them few and far between, however they'd gain recruits after devastating wars like the one in WC3 and cata.
• The crown though would be the sisterhood, the priest caste, retaining the core of the identity , the common glue across the lot, and the heart of what it is to be kaldorei - child of the stars, of which we'd now flesh out their lore to show you the many layered depths of what that means. you'd have priests in city temples, academies, but also in forests, scholar priests, religious priests, but also warriors priests, scouts and defenders. Magic started with the priests, arcane magic did, and while the mages are concerned with practical applications and have great expertise of it, the priests have the oldest and most basic knowledge of it.And their focus is life. Life through magic, life in magic, life with magic.

Nations
You'd also have different nations of night elves, Eldre'thalas would be nation, so would Hyjal, as would Ashenvale and Teldrassil, Azsuna and Suramar would be two different nations also.

Allies
I would also have a lot more of Cenarians involved too across all their groups including the fel one, but most prevalent in the druidic ones and the priest one. I would flesh them out.
Chimera would be more intelligent, like talking animals, and the dragons, green and blue in particular would be involved with them because they're an ancient race, and the dragons would just gel more with them than any other race, even though dragons would like humans and others too.


The priesthood would actually be much bigger if not the biggest touching all aspects of life amongst them both civilization and rural forest, arcane and nature like both the pre-sundering civilization and the long vigil showed.

Culture
Common amongst all night elves would be a defined star culture, things like star births, destiny by their stars, even cities ordered by the constellations and ley lines. Tree love would be linked to the stars and it would be discovered their nature love stemmed from climbing trees to be closer to the stars. The different roles of men and women, and yes, in this community they'd be distinct. I know it may not sound very woke, but every community will have mixture,e xcepet you'd notice that certain ones are dominated by certain sexes.

The preisthood and the military are dominated by females
The druids and mage orders are dominated by males

However their are sects within all that seem to have much greater gender balance e.g. the blackmoon sect is quite mixed, as are the Highborne, the Dreamwardens too as are the rogues/spies. Also even amongst the dominance you will ontice sub sects, like the cat shapeshifters are mostly female and the star augurs are mostly male ( a cross between mage and priest)

Infrastructure and Terrain
Therefore their civilization and forest would be full of gigantic trees and tall towers reaching for the skies. All aspects, priesthood, druidism, magecraft would have a heavy star focus as well as a nature element.

Also common is they are nocturnal, i would elaborate on ears too, whiles game graphics fix eleven ears in position, they can actually move, night elves can curve the tips upwards like the Nightborne when addicted/jittery/frenzied have, or outwards when ashamed, the angle orientates upwards like in high elf ears when concentration hard or coming to alert, and the normal position actually is position of rest and serenity.

The Well and Physical Characteristics
The well of eternity would continue to be their focus, I found it stupid to have the well play such a mammoth role in the pre-sundering and long vigil and WC3, only to just like have no relevance in night elf activity post wow -it's silly, especially after writing they come from the well, transformed further by it, and their purple skin and silver eyes are attributed to that arcane essence, not to mention it at the heart of everything related tot hem, their origin, their development, their greatness, their weakness, their rise, fall ,their tree, their desire, their world.. sigh..

Golden eyes would not be associated with nature, but with great destiny - the large golden eye population died in the burning of Teldrassil, but they were the ones who also formed a part of the new Ardenweald see, something they would not have been a part of if they didn't study the druidic arts, after that event, golden eyes returned to being very rare amongst night elves, and where it was thought that it was associated with nature, this was realised to have not been the case. However emerald green eyes seemed to develop in those greatest with the nature ability and usage, golden eyes hides those unless very strong in the dream...but now, post Teldrassil, it's become quite clear be associated with great nature sensitivity and would be different from the acidic fel blaze in DH ilidari eyes..

Other features unique to callings would include antler stubs for highly attuned nature elves, star tattoos like Tyrande has on her night warrior model for highly arcane atruned, and star features like Tyrande as avatar of Elune has for priests especially gifted.

Worgen
Additional night elf communities would be night elven worgen returned from the dream - they'd be an almost exclusive nature based group, whereas the Nightborne would an almost exclusive civilization based group with the bulk of the night elves haivng both.

Furthermore they would be much stronger with the Draenei

They'd be a whole chapter on the worgen night elves returning, they'd have different models for worgen form, also take different animal man shapes similar to trolls priests in Zul'Gurub, Arrakoa for similar bird men, as well as Saberon cat men, Werebear men etc, which players can choose their beast man form. the night elf form would have customisable antlers and half animal features, like you can choose bird wringed arms, or faun legs or branch arms, choose leaf hair instead of normal hair.

Void Elves
They'd also be an entire chapter on the void elves, with initial friendship with Highborne groups, but then trouble with the priest groups which eventually ends in acceptance and some void elf initiates to the priesthood of Elune dark mon sect, they'd also be druid relations as d night elven druids seek void elf help for the emerald dream while void elf nature magic scholars see it as an unprecedented move to expand both their nature knowledge and void study over nature.

International Relations
Some night elf communities are far more open than others. e.g. Darnassians and Suramarians are quite open to the outside world, whereas Hyjilians and Shen'dralar are not, with the former still nearly being as deadly to outsiders if you come near the well. It's the Hyjallians that control the Well of eternity.

Their politics are all very different. Darnassians are well into the alliance, and international protection affairs, Shaldorei are also, enthusaistic about theexploring hte world fostering relationships even though their blood elf friednship brings them horde its houdl be noted that no one is excluisveely horde or alliance.

Hyjallians are almost entirely reclusive and discourage outsiders. While Val'sharans though also reclusive would welcome visitors, just that nobody really ever goes there /shrug.

Eldre'thalas and the Shen'dralar are obsessed with former glory and restoring the kaldorei civilization, they opened their doors to a priesthood temple and are the only group that actively pursue Thalassian relationships, declaring their capital a home for all elves, especially high elves. The Order of Elune's sentinel training garrison and HQ is still in Feralas and they are on good terms with the Eldre'thalas citizens, the Shen'dralar liking the protection they afford and hoping to restore the grandeur of all things kaldorei but in a pre-sundering version of it.

Internal Politics
Use of the Well for the "future of elf kind" is the biggest internal issue the various night elf communities have, with fears of addiction and misuse, but also the necessary of having power to protect themselves from aggressors, foes,, like the legion and void lords as well as the need to rebuild and restore is another night elf side story that eventually ends in the accord of Orders - where the heads of all the various orders and castes come to an agreement. Elune and the Well is the bonding factor amongst all their kind even if they have different friends and allies.


Another big drive is recruits. While natural talent usually determines whether you end a mage, druid or priest, the Moonguard, Illidari, Highborne, Order of Elune, the Sentinels and the Druids are out for recruits. War brings a lot of recruits to the Illidari - who accept Eredar now too, but the Order of Elune opens up to all elves, the sentinels also recruit amongst the Worgen. The Moonguard work predominantly with Kaldorei shal'dorei and Shen'dralar stock.

The Lost Night Elf Castes
Naga stories develop to, with some Satyr and naga re-joining the night elves - yielding possibility of new allied races

Farondis and Ravencrests are undead that continue to exist with developments too, they are their own nation, the Ravencrests and dark rangers actually eventually come together and are sort of the undead wing of the night elf race/faction with the Farondis who look for a release from the curse - they gain a massive step when they are able to somehow "phase"" into full life at certain times of the year, this makes for a very interesting story and feature for this nation of unliving/living elves, that eventually ties into the shadowlands and the Ardenweald, diversifying their arcane arts with death magic expertise.

Despite other versions of druidism existing for Zandalari torlls, Kul'tirans and now Tauren the kaldorei Canarion Circle still remains the most prestigious and acclaimed one. The Farondis restore the Nar'thalas academy as a rival centre for magic, they seem to draw in ancient types though, like dragons, dracthyr, Draenei etc, human bodies unable to compete with the super spans of these races

[Shadowferal]

I would agree with all but the tauren, they were never designed to be part of the night elves or their philosophy, Tauren druidism was thrown in to give the horde the druid class.

Tauren druid works for me. But then I've be restructuring the class...and your ideas are not far from my own.

In retrospect, without changing too much, I would have designed Tauren to have a totally different version of druids, one that had no arcane magic in it, just the plants and shapeshfiting.

And here we agree. But for me the arcane stuff would be changed to reflect that which I would refer to as the mysteries of Druidism. (The mechanics won't differ much, but should reflect a "class culture" than simple "root and nuke" )
And I've always been critical of shape-shifting. It should always be racially different. The only exception for me is when one specs shape-shifting mastery, which reflects my own restructured "feral" spec.

[Myradin]

If i was Team Christie Golden, i would make the Nightelfs settle in Auberdine. And live there in peace for all eternity. That is, until the next horde warchief evolves.

Yeah I'm guessing we're only an expansion away from "We have to pick a single leader because the council is too divided. Quick! Choose the absolutely worst person for the job and then act surprised when they try to genocide the world again".

[Powerogue]

In my case it's because they significantly improved how outlaw rogues feel gameplay wise, which felt like hot ass in bfa/SL so I had moved entirely to my monk. Nothing related to the char, though I would expect in general more alliance participation thanks to cross faction guilds and the like.

And everybody loves elves.

Except Garithos.

[Mace]

In my case it's because they significantly improved how outlaw rogues feel gameplay wise, which felt like hot ass in bfa/SL so I had moved entirely to my monk. Nothing related to the char, though I would expect in general more alliance participation thanks to cross faction guilds and the like.

And everybody loves elves.

Except Garithos.

Well everyone but @Syegfryed hehe

[Tanaria]

I don't know.
Was the Horde holding the Blood Elves back up until Legion when every M+ was made up of Blood Elves because of the amount of spells that could be interrupted and Arcane Torrent was not part of the GCD - and PvP, the Blood Elf racial, for the first time ever, was a major thing that none-blood elf players were complaining about since Torrent was brought into the game (almost 9 years)

I mean, in Legion, the only Blood Elf class that I didn't see regularly was Warlock.

[Psychotrip]

I'm only skimming this, but I love seeing people still engaged enough in the world to come up with story revisions. Reminds me of the Elder Scrolls community...in both good and bad ways XD

But just like The Elder Scrolls, it often feels like theoriticians and fan-writers put more thought into the world than the devs themselves. It sucks, too, because clearly there are people who are still passionate about the world and want it to improve.

As someone who loves Blood Elves as much as Night Elves, I gotta throw my Sin'dorei a bone, too. They got shafted in a completely different way.

Everything from Kael'thas going from a beloved anti-hero to a generic villain, to the Blood Elves immediately losing their most unique aspect (edgy magic-addicted broodlords), to becoming generic holy high elves with (sometimes) green eyes. Blood Elves haven't been humiliated nearly as much as the Night Elves, but they've lost what made them unique imo.

I wanted the tattoo-covered, demon-enslaving, edge-nerd, hot-blooded magic addicts from the old lore. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's what set Blood Elves apart from "normal" elves. We got that for half an expansion.

Some of this is the fault of TBC being so awful story-wise (despite it being my first and favorite xpac). The end of WC3 seemed to be setting up an entire faction of magical mutants led by Illidan, Kael'thas, Vashj, and Akama. I always kind of wished that they ended up the third faction (maybe with Forsaken joining them instead of the Horde), but that would have been WAY too much work.

Barring that, at the very least I wish they hadn't done Kael so dirty. He should have been an anti-hero, not a full-on villain, and definitely not a generic high-elf good guy. That's kind of how I feel about Blood Elves as a whole right now. They've lost their identity and feel like something different entirely. They have no hook anymore. Especially with Nightborne joining the Horde instead of the Alliance (!!!), they almost feel redundant now.

At the very least, I'd like to see the Blood Elves divided between those who are re-dedicated to the Light, and those who refuse to give up arcane and fel magic. The Blood Elf intro (post cata) implies exactly this,but to my knowledge it's never been expanded on.

For real, just look at their original artwork and concept art from both WC3 and TBC. Their body-language, their facial features. They look like anime villains! The Blood Elves now just seem unrecognizable.

TL;DR More evil magic from the blood elves, please.

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Yeah I'm guessing we're only an expansion away from "We have to pick a single leader because the council is too divided. Quick! Choose the absolutely worst person for the job and then act surprised when they try to genocide the world again".

I still can't believe we're at the point where the Alliance is led by a single High King, and the Horde is led by a council of independent nations.

The political identities of the factions have gone through so much bad-writing that their government structures have completely flipped. It's wild XD

Why did they have to kill Vol'jin again? Was it worth it in the end? Don't answer that. That's for a different thread!

[Mace]

I'm only skimming this, but I love seeing people still engaged enough in the world to come up with story revisions. Reminds me of the Elder Scrolls community...in both good and bad ways XD

But just like The Elder Scrolls, it often feels like theoriticians and fan-writers put more thought into the world than the devs themselves. It sucks, too, because clearly there are people who are still passionate about the world and want it to improve.

As someone who loves Blood Elves as much as Night Elves, I gotta throw my Sin'dorei a bone, too. They got shafted in a completely different way.

Everything from Kael'thas going from a beloved anti-hero to a generic villain, to the Blood Elves immediately losing their most unique aspect (edgy magic-addicted broodlords), to becoming generic holy high elves with (sometimes) green eyes. Blood Elves haven't been humiliated nearly as much as the Night Elves, but they've lost what made them unique imo.

I wanted the tattoo-covered, demon-enslaving, edge-nerd, hot-blooded magic addicts from the old lore. I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, but that's what set Blood Elves apart from "normal" elves. We got that for half an expansion.

Some of this is the fault of TBC being so awful story-wise (despite it being my first and favorite xpac). The end of WC3 seemed to be setting up an entire faction of magical mutants led by Illidan, Kael'thas, Vashj, and Akama. I always kind of wished that they ended up the third faction (maybe with Forsaken joining them instead of the Horde), but that would have been WAY too much work.

Barring that, at the very least I wish they hadn't done Kael so dirty. He should have been an anti-hero, not a full-on villain, and definitely not a generic high-elf good guy. That's kind of how I feel about Blood Elves as a whole right now. They've lost their identity and feel like something different entirely. They have no hook anymore. Especially with Nightborne joining the Horde instead of the Alliance (!!!), they almost feel redundant now.

At the very least, I'd like to see the Blood Elves divided between those who are re-dedicated to the Light, and those who refuse to give up arcane and fel magic. The Blood Elf intro (post cata) implies exactly this,but to my knowledge it's never been expanded on.

For real, just look at their original artwork and concept art from both WC3 and TBC. Their body-language, their facial features. They look like anime villains! The Blood Elves now just seem unrecognizable.

TL;DR More evil magic from the blood elves, please.

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I still can't believe we're at the point where the Alliance is led by a single High King, and the Horde is led by a council of independent nations.

The political identities of the factions have gone through so much bad-writing that their government structures have completely flipped. It's wild XD

Why did they have to kill Vol'jin again? Was it worth it in the end? Don't answer that. That's for a different thread!

No it definitely wasn't wortht he end, but i suspect becuase the devs trasnferred all thier love to the horde, without changing their mindset to fit the horde, so instead the horde got slowly moulddeed into the alliance they once felt they personified.

As bizzarre as that sounds it is the only thing ican think of that fits. And it explains a lot, they basically tried too hard for the horde and wrote it as the alliance, this might explain why blood elves have just been turned back into high elves. The devs wanted high elves, but instead used blood elves to give the horde a boost. They loved them so much, they instead hcnaged them back to high elves feeling that this is also what was the most attractiveand appealing version to the fans, because it appealed to htem more.

Part of the effort might have been to quite down alliance cries for high elves, because if it could be perceived that blood elves were indeed high elves, then who'd want actual high elves? I suspect the devs themselves wanted high elves, and transferred them and their loyalty to the horde, band so needed up wiring the horde as the alliance.

notice how so many so called alliance characters and heroes , favourites of the devs and the fantasy, now easily and unwittingly work with and mare more focused on the horde than their alliance race too.. all this just proves that they are writing the horde as the alliance reflecting their original vision and likes through the focused faction. they wrote the alliance remember.

However, it's not so easy, because they didn't want to change the identity of the horde so much, so tried to retain a lot of horde-like feel to the faction while subconsciously kept on remoulding it after the alliance. Forsaken, blood elves, Nightborne are races that would never have been in the original or WC3 horde, but are now the most prolific and engaged races, given the most attention, detail and design.. isn't it obvious?


Wow should have been a 5 faction game, it should have kicked off with the alliance, the horde, the night elves and the undead (forsaken), then added the illidari in TBC. There would never have been the population discrepancy that led to the total imbalancing of the story, the ruining of kale'thas and Illidan and much that was actually treasured and good about warcraft, especially the night elves.

[Syegfryed]

Well everyone but @Syegfryed hehe

If i could i would kill all of then myself

But blame blizzard for their endless pampering and bias towards then, otherwise i would not bother.

[Mace]

If i could i would kill all of then myself

But blame blizzard for their endless pampering and bias towards then, otherwise i would not bother.

Yep, blizzard actually love elves the most. Night elves were crazy good in wc3, the entire set up was nothing short of amazing, the depth and fantasy was incredible , and though they gutted and largely neglected them to bits, they seemed to have transferred that love to blood elves.

True, orcs and humans got the most treatment, but I always noticed an affection first for night elves, then for blood elves everywhere, from art to story etc, even though they havent been focused on particularly outside TBC and Legion. (Look how cool nightborne and void elves - the sub races were too compared to say highmounatim and Lightforged?

But it's clear players really like them, though a few hate them for their popularity and media stereotype. Sort of like those who hate the gorgeous popular kid who seems to be good at everything they do. While it is shallow to love something just for its looks, warcraft elves arent shallow and so become more endearing and engender fanaticism- which is what I suspect you hate.

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Not that there is anything wrong with that. I like them because they are quite the opposite to me while embodying many of the qualities I either like or aspire to in myself, and at least in the story they are mostly honourable and good. I mean blizzard is the only one that has ever done good dark elves before, which would have been a great poster for diversity if they didnt murder them and nerf bat them so often. I loved how also blizzard were the first to give them true detail and depth relatively whereas most fantasy universes only care about high elves, using dark elves almost purely as the antagonists for them rather than a people in their own right. Blizzard even drove story from them, which is unheard as usually only humans drive story in these fantasies.

But it is clear they did once love them, and orcs too, even if currently I feel their faves are blood elves on average, then humans. Orcs my second fave race are also great for similiar reasons. Blizzard also seem to be the only one that made orcs truly feel threatening and cunning but also honourable, instead stupid, laughable and backstabbers.

But orcs unlike night elves never got super nerfed and gutted, even when they became villainous again, you had good orcs holding the bad one to account and mai training the integrity. They also dont lose their powers or territories and perform above their racial parameters. Orcs shouldnt find both Draeneu and Night elves super powerful unlike humans with the benevolence of the two and their low numbers the only reason why they arent roflstomped, yet it seems when blizzard need to power up orcs, its night elves and Draenei that are the victims

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

The Alliance ? No.
Blizzard writers ? Oh hell yeah.

[Aleksej89]

nelf and humans are pretty much the only decent models on the alliance, even after all the modern reworks.

short races make the armors look horrendous while the worgen & draenei deform the armors utterly, not to mention they are just poorly designed.

Wow released almost 20 years ago and even today i can only consider the human and the night elf as the only valid candidates for alliance races as far as visuals are concerned.