DF spell rotation too bloated?

[Zoura]

WoW's bloated rotations is one of my big issues with the game. I have 16 keybinds (1 through 6, ~, R, T, G, X, F1 through F4, and a button on the side of my mouse), have taken talents that consolidate abilities (Crusader Strike Autoattack, Consecration merged into Blade of Justice) and avoided talents that add new abilities (except for Wake of Ashes which is mandatory), have created macros to condense buttons, and I still can't cover all of the abilities and items. I don't have room on my two bars to fit the Kyrian Hearthstone/resurrection/battle resurrection/Soulstone/PvP stunbreak trinket/Potions/wingshredder 5,000/goblin glider. In order to use those, either I have to mouse over and click, click to a different bar and click the ability or item and then click back, or open a menu such as my spellbook and flip through the pages and click or open my inventory and search for it in there. I much prefer GW2 where you only have 10 combat abilities, period (and occasionally an 11th action button bound to N), and I can comfortably use my other keybinds for other functions.

I feel like this myself playing Druid...

Use Shift 1-5 for top bar & shift r, f, t,g etc. Also Shift+space, i got that binded for mount myself or any other travel form/speed ability depending on what im doing, raid or m+. Played like that for years, then we have macros aswell..

[Nitros14]

You guys trying to argue that arcane mage really needs touch of the magi and radiant spark and rune of power and shifting power etc?

How many 30 second cooldown spells do we need that are all "do damage"? Christ.

[Nalam the Venom]

Screw that: 1 ability max!

Heck, why even press buttons? Shift all damage into auto attacks!

Well, I would ofc prefer gamplay like Vindictus or Blade & Soul.

But the BM rotation is more than enough to always have something to click without it being overwhelming.

[Zodiark]

I feel like this myself playing Druid...

Use Shift 1-5 for top bar & shift r, f, t,g etc. Also Shift+space, i got that binded for mount myself or any other travel form/speed ability depending on what im doing, raid or m+. Played like that for years, then we have macros aswell..

I've Been playing MMO's like this since forever. Honestly since early 00's. I regularily use 9 keybindings with just my mouse alone. SHFT and CTRL are my modifiers. Then I use various keys on my numpad. Q,W,E with modifiers for those as well. then SHIF A,S,D,F G,X AND 1-9. However using it that way I never have to take my hands off the mouse and keyboard other than to hit numpad 0 to mount.

[Pakheth]

I like the option to choose abilities away if I don't like them. The new talent system is extremely customisable.

If you don't like all the buttons then simply change the build. In most cases the DPS loss is negligible, especially if you optimise depending on the situation.

I'm also one of those who prefer to have a lot going on with my abilities. Always have been, ever since I started back i Vanilla. But unlike FF14 I prefer an MMO that allows you to mess up your rotation now and then and WoW does that.

[Starscream101]

Just the button bloat and the add on you got to have to play demo lock omg it sucks ass and then all the weak auras you got to have to track your skills and cooldowns just to do good dps is bs. The blizz UI crew needs to step up their game and stop us having to go download everything just to play the game right and yes there is a skill bloat

[kranur]

Just the button bloat and the add on you got to have to play demo lock omg it sucks ass and then all the weak auras you got to have to track your skills and cooldowns just to do good dps is bs. The blizz UI crew needs to step up their game and stop us having to go download everything just to play the game right and yes there is a skill bloat

True lol. Currently have over 20 spell binds and actually use all of them in a M+ for example. Also at least 3 weak auras are required to play the spec well. The default UI tracks 1 proc lol, and even that has the absolute darkest color possible.
The UI, even updated, is still ages behind.

[Malvient]

Imagine having to press a 4th or 5th button every 45-60 seconds.

The horror

As a monk I've been struggling to find another 4th or 5th free hotbar since MoP

[TbouncerT]

True lol. Currently have over 20 spell binds and actually use all of them in a M+ for example. Also at least 3 weak auras are required to play the spec well. The default UI tracks 1 proc lol, and even that has the absolute darkest color possible.
The UI, even updated, is still ages behind.

Could you note these 'at least 3 weak auras'? I would like to look into them

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Imagine having to press a 4th or 5th button every 45-60 seconds.

The horror

As a monk I've been struggling to find another 4th or 5th free hotbar since MoP

Monk is really fun to play though, at least to me. Loving Brew and Mist. I fear if I tried Wind, I'd die.

[Palapop]

Yea even the developers have acknowledge some classes have way to much bloat. This is what people wanted apparently?

Nope. Where did you get that?

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I like the option to choose abilities away if I don't like them. The new talent system is extremely customisable.

If you don't like all the buttons then simply change the build. In most cases the DPS loss is negligible, especially if you optimise depending on the situation.

I'm also one of those who prefer to have a lot going on with my abilities. Always have been, ever since I started back i Vanilla. But unlike FF14 I prefer an MMO that allows you to mess up your rotation now and then and WoW does that.

New talent system IS extremely customizable- YES.

But only very, very, VERY few combos work.

For example- difference between my "bis" talent and what I would like to play on my ele (just an example) is ~30-40% overall dmg. which is HUUUUUUGE difference.

So dps loss is NOT negligible.

[LordVargK]

Well, I would ofc prefer gamplay like Vindictus or Blade & Soul.

But the BM rotation is more than enough to always have something to click without it being overwhelming.

Oh. You were serious... welp.

[TbouncerT]

Nope. Where did you get that?

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New talent system IS extremely customizable- YES.

But only very, very, VERY few combos work.

For example- difference between my "bis" talent and what I would like to play on my ele (just an example) is ~30-40% overall dmg. which is HUUUUUUGE difference.

So dps loss is NOT negligible.

Not to mention bringing into account the situation, plus adding ST/MT into account, it can get out of hand.

Like it or not, damage meters/tracking is a double edge sword here. While it is good to use it try to improve oneself, it is also used to demean others. I personally feel that is the one addon Blizzard should ban (at least the in-game tracking ones). I've seen and heard so much toxicity revolving around it for over a decade. Your 30-40% statement is proof of it.

[Palapop]

Not to mention bringing into account the situation, plus adding ST/MT into account, it can get out of hand.

Like it or not, damage meters/tracking is a double edge sword here. While it is good to use it try to improve oneself, it is also used to demean others. I personally feel that is the one addon Blizzard should ban (at least the in-game tracking ones). I've seen and heard so much toxicity revolving around it for over a decade. Your 30-40% statement is proof of it.

it's not proof of toxicity but of unbalanced talent tree, doh.

I dare you to try and do certain encounter with whole raid doing ~30% less dps because they play spec THEY WANT TO PLAY. (not saying thats a bad thing. not at all. but it's counter-productive sadly)

[Zyky]

No issues here? The new talent tree permits you to adjust for your playstyle and design. Break the meta!

You're kidding yourself if you actually believe this, there is no balance at all.

[Biomega]

"Play the way YOU want to play!" loses a lot of its luster when you're playing with other people.

YOU may want to play a certain way, but that doesn't mean you get to impose your preference on other people's time without their consent. Your desire to play some weird off-meta spec that's 50% less damage is entirely legitimate ON YOUR OWN TIME - not when we're in a dungeon together and now everything takes longer or actually fails. You don't get to make that choice for me.

That being said, those are mostly academic problems and in reality people will just gravitate VERY closely to the meta past a certain level of play. It's not REALLY that big of a problem in practice, but the principle still holds. Which ironically only reinforces the illusory character of the idea that talent trees let you play how you want - because yeah kind of technically but also not really. You get to choose between 1-5 irrelevant details in most cases, the rest is pretty set for a given situation.

It would have been nice to see some MEANINGFUL difference in various "builds" but preciously few specs actually have distinct play styles. For most it's effectively the same, except "press A here if you have it, otherwise press B" which isn't really super exciting levels of customization is it.

[Lochton]

You're kidding yourself if you actually believe this

Did I talk about balance? Then again, I'm not in fear of metas, curves, or 'races'. I enjoy the game, I play how I want it, the talent tree currently permits me to make a vast amount of playstyles - of course, some would demand gear to work better in raiding, others, wouldn't be overall but they can clear the meters for raiding up till HC still, without copying from whatever site.

there is no balance at all.

This game has hardly ever been balanced, and as soon as something was adjusted to close the gap for better balance, guess what, another group starts whining because some group does 3-8% more damage than them.

[Pakheth]

New talent system IS extremely customizable- YES.

But only very, very, VERY few combos work.

For example- difference between my "bis" talent and what I would like to play on my ele (just an example) is ~30-40% overall dmg. which is HUUUUUUGE difference.

So dps loss is NOT negligible.

I guess it depends on the class and spec and I must agree that sadly Elem is notorious for this and one of the reasons I shelved my shammy for now. My BM hunter and Arms warrior is having a lot more fun thankfully and allow me to move things around with less of a handicap.



For me personally I find it better to find a setup I like to play instead of the simmed meta, as playing something I find fun usually means I can dish out good numbers even with what many would consider a subpar setup. Flow is important for me. If a spec setup feels clunky but is considered the best I will alter it until I find it less clunky, and yes it might result in a loss but so be it. But this is different for everyone so not going to argue against it.

[Pheraz]

Yea even the developers have acknowledge some classes have way to much bloat. This is what people wanted apparently?

IMO they had the perfect mix at legion. But I guess I am in the minority. Why the hell does my survival hunter needs arcane shot? Etc
Super weird.
And for real combinations it is also too much. For example MM hunters, IMO
I always chose the trees with the most passives so I have less buttons to handle xD

[Lazerbrain]

we need more spells and abilities, about three variations for every situation, i prefer around 36 keybound buttons to use.


+ with the current talents iv built basically one-button rotation builds with "most" classes. So I don't see the problem.

[Fitsu]

I do like Dragonflight so far, but with the redone talent tree came newer spell rotations.

And I play a variety of classes and specs and almost all of them in DF have overly complicated rotations now. Well "complicated" isn't the word, but just way too many spells to click and pay attention too.

Most my classes used to get by with like a 4 to 6 spell rotation, now its 8 to 10 spells.

Demon Hunter used to be a simple 3 or 4 spell rotation, now its way more.

Or the 45 sec or 60 sec spells you use rarely but now nedd to be a part of your core rotation.

And for what? Why do this Blizzard?

Just download an addon like Hekili, it tells you what button to press. I've used such an addon since MoP.