Augmentation Evoker: New Black/Bronze DPS Support Spec

[Berkilak]

I thought a little tidbit of their announcement was interesting and perhaps telling:



This reads to me like support is a new paradigm in the game, and if they are bothering to make it function with addons, it seems to imply that more support specs will be coming. Perhaps this will be how they do 4th specs?

I could see them going first to classes with bloodlust abilities, as Teriz suggested in the other thread. The elephant in the room for support specs is of course the bard, which if true about bloodlust effects, could easily be a new support spec for hunters. Blizzard's twist on the bard would then be a bard with a pet fighting at their side, which hasn't really been done by other games afaik. But why couldn't a musician have a pet dog or whatever?

Also, I think you could do something with the soul manipulation stuff of demon hunters to give them a support spec. Mainly because 2 specs is just too limiting.

Odds are, that just means they're going to do what FFXIV does and make it possible to tack the bit of DPS that the support gives others back onto the support in the logs.

[Triceron]

This reads to me like support is a new paradigm in the game, and if they are bothering to make it function with addons, it seems to imply that more support specs will be coming. Perhaps this will be how they do 4th specs?

Definitely an interesting thought.

I could see it going either way. On the one hand there is a lot of system updates to support this new style of 'DPS', that opens up to more specs of the like. On the other hand, this already fills that unique niche and there may not be any need for more.

I kinda see it like what they did with Demonology Summoner gameplay or Disc Priest gameplay being unique and no other class or spec replicates what they have. Would we have another Summoner or Support type class in the future? Question is, do we really need one?

Bard is definitely on the table now that they've opened the doors. I think time will tell on how successful this gameplay will be, and where the potential is for more specs that provide unique buffs that Augmentation doesn't already cover

[lanerios]

As I said in the other topic. It seems I was vastly wrong, and it is a support spec. Good to see!

Happy to see it's more akin to Dancer in FFXIV as well, which is by far my favourite class in that game

[Berkilak]

As I said in the other topic. It seems I was vastly wrong, and it is a support spec. Good to see!

Happy to see it's more akin to Dancer in FFXIV as well, which is by far my favourite class in that game

Having played around with it for a minute, I'm happy to report that it feels much more impactful than Dancer or Bard.

[Teriz]

A lot of people seem to be real mad about Augmentation, but I've wanted some type of support class for years. If it plays well I'll be happy.

It plays very well. I think it’s going to get toned down a bit, but overall I think Blizzard has done a very good job designing this spec.

[Divada]

That's great to hear. I won't be able to test it, so I have to wait until release to try it out. Really digging the new spell fx on the abilities so far.

[Teriz]

That's great to hear. I won't be able to test it, so I have to wait until release to try it out. Really digging the new spell fx on the abilities so far.

Yeah, just avoid the official forums. They’re still in meltdown mode over this spec.

[bloodmoth13]

The main issue with a "support" playstyle is that you are reliant on the people you support to gain value.

This causes an issue with balancing the spec because now you have to factor in not only the design of literally every other dps you could work with (not all buffs worth the same % dps to each spec, some benefit way more) but also their skill level.

If they balance it around peak performance then the spec will be absolutely useless for casual/pug play.
If they balance it for average performance it will be broken OP in grouped play.

I have seen many examples of "buff supports" totally breaking certain characters/comps in other games for this exact reason until they are either made weak on purpose or completely reworked after a while.

Just look at how power infusion affected certain specs last xpac. It could also have a negative effect on balance of other specs for the same reason, imagine getting nerfed because your damage profile perfectly matches evokers support profile, now you are 'good' when you have an evoker and garbage without one.
Wow isnt built for this

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That's not the retort you think it is.

If he did more damage than you, it's because the group was doing more damage as a whole. Which means the group was successful. The group includes you.

Thats not the point though, players measure their performance against others, it creates competition and rivalries and guides players into playing better. In most fights players arent fighting the encounter, its not enough to beat the boss they want to ensure they have contributed the most to the cause and meters give clear feedback on that for dps players.
A support though can artificially pump up someone who didnt contribute as much and raise their status, something you might not care about but its important to a LOT of other players. Even non-competitive players care about this.

A spec that exists to solely destroy validity of a learning tool isnt good design. Logs with evokers will either be worthless or required. A players performance should be mostly insular, there are environmental factors that affect output but getting punished because of someone elses play or your competition getting rewarded for no personal reason is garbage.

I dont mind support gameplay but the damage should be attributed to the evoker, its value should be determined solely by the evoker and not so much his allies.
Abilities like a lightning shield that you cast on allies that damages enemies around them makes sense, you use the ally as a conduit for YOUR damage rather than just making your ally better. Other skills like a buff that gives the ally a chance to fire a bolt at their target that has x charges, again using an ally as a conduit for YOUR damage.
That would be fine, but playing the slacker that gets credit for other peoples damage is garbage.

[Teriz]

Just look at how power infusion affected certain specs last xpac. It could also have a negative effect on balance of other specs for the same reason, imagine getting nerfed because your damage profile perfectly matches evokers support profile, now you are 'good' when you have an evoker and garbage without one.
Wow isnt built for this

To be fair, PI’s problem is that it only targets one person at a time. Augmentation buffs can effect multiple party members at one time, and many of the buffs aren’t directly controlled by the Evoker.

I dont mind support gameplay but the damage should be attributed to the evoker, its value should be determined solely by the evoker and not so much his allies.

This is more than likely what Blizzard is doing when they say that they’re developing new tools to measure damage. I could see a scenario where it posts DPS damage and some of that damage is attributed to the Augmentation Evoker.

[FossilFree]

Just look at how power infusion affected certain specs last xpac. It could also have a negative effect on balance of other specs for the same reason, imagine getting nerfed because your damage profile perfectly matches evokers support profile, now you are 'good' when you have an evoker and garbage without one.
Wow isnt built for this

With them talking about making it work with meter addons, that sounds to me like it isn't going to simply add to the other player's dps. Otherwise, addons would work as they are now. What will probably happen, is the augmented damage that might have made the other player top the charts, will instead be credited to the augmentation evoker who buffed them.

In this way, you avoid problems associated with PI that we have now and allow the evoker to top dps charts by being credited properly for the damage they added to an ally's output. Balance will be unaffected on an individual or 1 to 1 comparison basis. How it affects the group as a whole might make them tweak raid boss design a bit for the spec's inclusion, but otherwise it won't affect much.

[Triceron]

A spec that exists to solely destroy validity of a learning tool isnt good design.

Nonsense.

The tool is based on community defined parameters. Blizzard doesn't provide meters, but they will still be supporting the tool developers with new ways to help calculate damage output parameters.

There is no 'destroying the validity of a learning tool'. The way the game is played will be changed and the tools will be updated to reflect the changes, no different from the ongoing process of adapting to any new major system changes.

The tools aren't 'destroyed' just because the meta gets shaken up.

or your competition getting rewarded for no personal reason is garbage.

The entire game is built around RNG rewards. There IS no direct reward for top performance. Some low performing player who dies most of the time can get a BIS drop just for being lucky with RNG.

[Berkilak]

Thats not the point though, players measure their performance against others,

I understand the point. I also understand that some people value this mentality. I do not. Those values are not universal.

[bloodmoth13]

To be fair, PI’s problem is that it only targets one person at a time. Augmentation buffs can effect multiple party members at one time, and many of the buffs aren’t directly controlled by the Evoker.



This is more than likely what Blizzard is doing when they say that they’re developing new tools to measure damage. I could see a scenario where it posts DPS damage and some of that damage is attributed to the Augmentation Evoker.

If this is the case then i have zero issue. Support gameplay is fine but the value needs to be attributed to the player that provides it, players shouldnt need spreadsheets to determine each players contribution, wow already has a lot going on and obfuscating data is a big issue.
If true i couldnt care less and id like the idea, but granting allies stat bonuses looks like it isnt the case. We will see.

[M1r4g3]

I'm interested to see how they are going to tackle being able to quantify their useful-ness without having a before>after example(this mostly applies to pugs/m+ and more random stuff with too many variables)

[bloodmoth13]

I understand the point. I also understand that some people value this mentality. I do not. Those values are not universal.

Its completely opt out if you arent interested but destroying it affects everyone.
Hopefully the value is attributed to the evoker though, if so it isnt an issue, ive stated i have no issue with support gameplay (using allies as a conduit for your power) i only have an issue with meter destruction and balance.

[Teriz]

Okay, I did some goofing around on the PTR, and I really like the feel of the spec overall. Please note, that as a former Shaman main, I have a soft spot for Earth-based spells because I always wanted a Shaman tank, so seeing all of these lovely earth abilities just warms my dark cold heart.

At first, I thought the extension of Ebon Might via Eruption was a little low, but then I specced into the cast time reducers of Eruption, and I understood why Blizzard kept it at 1 second, because you can really pump Eruptions out pretty consistently. Also Upheaval is just a cool looking spell. I like how it follows the target as it moves, and to me that places it head and shoulders above other empower abilities. Also knocking a target into the air and then slamming them down is simply a very satisfying experience.

Blistering Scales is a wonderful defensive addition. I like everything about it. That and Timelessness should seriously be considered for base abilities. They're sorely needed in the Devastation spec.

I wasn't able to tell if Black or Bronze Attunements were working. I specced into Aspect's Favor and still didn't feel a movement increase or see a HP increase after using the associated ability. I sent a bug report to blizzard, but it might just have been me.

Spatial Paradox is my favorite Evoker talent. Damn what an awesome ability. 65 yd range Living Flame? Movement while casting? Yes please. This is another ability that really should be given to Devastation Evokers too.

All in all, I'd consider this spec a win. I didn't get a change to try it in group play, just messed around with it alongside a partner, and that was pretty cool.

[Phrenchy]

I'm not sure if someone can answer me

But I'm looking at augmentation evokers and messing with the Talent calculator and Wondering if it's possible and/or doable to find a way to make an evoker be an "off-healer" rather than an "off-dps" kinda playstyle ?

[Teriz]

I'm not sure if someone can answer me

But I'm looking at augmentation evokers and messing with the Talent calculator and Wondering if it's possible and/or doable to find a way to make an evoker be an "off-healer" rather than an "off-dps" kinda playstyle ?

I don't think so.

The only healing spell you really have is Emerald Blossum, and you have to specc into that new talent to get it to extend your Ebon Might. You definitely have some good support abilities that can keep someone alive, like Blistering Scales, Werynstone, and Timelessness, but you just don't have enough healing spells to make it worth your while to try to heal people. Your spec really revolves around DPS abilities like Eruption and Breath of Eons.

[Staccato]

I don't think so.

The only healing spell you really have is Emerald Blossum, and you have to specc into that new talent to get it to extend your Ebon Might. You definitely have some good support abilities that can keep someone alive, like Blistering Scales, Werynstone, and Timelessness, but you just don't have enough healing spells to make it worth your while to try to heal people. Your spec really revolves around DPS abilities like Eruption and Breath of Eons.

True, but you can still have powerful moments of supporting with stuff like https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/spell=409678/chrono-ward Honestly it's a pretty impressive talent.

[Phrenchy]

Thanks for the answer

It's a shame tho, feels like it's missing one ability to be able to make it a real support that could off-heal and off-dps while augmenting your allies