welp they finally did it: WoW Token on Wrath Classic

[Biomega]

Again, you think that some perfect system that literally catches everyone is necessary, it's not.

Why are we going in circles? I've already explained, in great detail, what I mean with this, and how it would have to work, and why it doesn't.

Why do you keep returning to some original point and completely ignore all the explication that was provided? We've had this discussion before. And every time you just do a swift turn back to the beginning as soon as you realize you're losing all ground.

You very clearly have no idea what's going on, and why things are as they are. You're stuck in some weird idealized fantasy in which "the system" just works and is cost-effective, but that's just NOT REALITY. And simply repeating "yeah but what if it DID work tho?" is not getting us anywhere.

The scope and effort involved in this kind of monitoring are economically unfeasible for this kind of problem. And just to preempt yet another time-travel attempt by you, by this I do NOT mean "it'll literally bankrupt them", just that it's a bad business decision they should not be making, and that's why they're not making it.

[Exkrementor]

What’s the solution? Kernel level anticheat? Pretty sure people hate that too.

The solution for bots? Its that you hire like 2 people who ban all the bots. You can clearly see who is a bot. Go to every outland zone, go to botanica, go to zuldrak and ban every DK without guild that only moves in straight lines. Also every 58 DK in vanilla zones mining ores. Its not that hard. But that would require spending money on 2 wages instead of milking your customers.

[Usernameforforums]

The solution for bots? Its that you hire like 2 people who ban all the bots. You can clearly see who is a bot. Go to every outland zone, go to botanica, go to zuldrak and ban every DK without guild that only moves in straight lines. Also every 58 DK in vanilla zones mining ores. Its not that hard. But that would require spending money on 2 wages instead of milking your customers.

I’m sure it’s that easy.

[Relapses]

I’m sure it’s that easy.

It isn't. The recent Blue post about the token pretty much confirms that they've been in the same escalating arms race against gold sellers which resulted in their decision to add the token to retail back in WoD. And while I still think more manpower on Blizzard's end could have staved off some of the negative effects for a longer period of time (at least until WotLK is done), it's important to understand from a game developer standpoint that as long as there's capital at stake that people will do whatever they can to use capital in a way which circumvents rules to their advantage. There's no winning that particular battle. It was lost the second Blizzard added virtual currency to the game.

Not that anybody upset about the token will accept this answer -- they'll just accuse them of making shit up and go about their day being hopelessly mad at a situation they barely understand.

[Soimu]

They can ban gold sellers and bots but that would mean they need to invest money to hire people to do just that so from a business perspective it's better to make money out of it rather than invest money to combat it and it's a typical move from a scumbag company. All those that defend token selling are just dumb and naive.

[chiddie]

That's because the solution isn't to ban the sellers, it's to ban the buyers.
Sellers will keep selling as long as people buy, but whales will eventually give up after their 8th account gets banned and they already wasted a thousand dollars on RMT for no return whatsoever

Ban buyers = servers empty in the long run.

I would have stopped playing centuries ago without the retail token, no way I’ll waste my few spare time in farming stupid gold and I can assure you I’m not alone.

[Coffeh]

Their ridiculous Blue post trying to justify the Token is just insulting.

But the fanboys will eat it up.

[chiddie]

They can ban gold sellers and bots but that would mean they need to invest money to hire people to do just that so from a business perspective it's better to make money out of it rather than invest money to combat it and it's a typical move from a scumbag company. All those that defend token selling are just dumb and naive.

The real way to solve the problem would be analyze why people are buying gold and change the game, for what is possible, in a way that renders buying gold worthless.

Spoiler: stop tying high end gear to groups. Played ARPGS for ages, never felt the urge to buy in-game currency.

[mehow2g]

Since this being sold as a quality of life feature, why not just raise the rewards from quests? kill two birds with one stone, better quality of life and no bots since there's enough gold.

That's the goal right Activision? make the game more easier.

[Celarent]

Since this being sold as a quality of life feature, why not just raise the rewards from quests?

Likely because several thousand gold distributed to a small percentage of players meets certain needs of the game, while increased rewards straight-up cause inflation.

As I posted earlier, I bought 300 flying with half of my token payout: that money disappeared from the game 90 seconds after it entered. I imagine others will pay for big-ticket items that sit on the AH and either sell or don't, and similarly have a narrow impact on the game economy.

Per Kaivax's post and Blizzard's realization that it can actually communicate directly with players to improve relations, it'd be illuminating to find out just how prevalent RMT is. Or even token sales. "Everybody's doing it" is the favorite phrase of cynics and perps, and doesn't help anyone's understanding of the situation.

[czarek]

No LFD because of IMMERSION. BUT WE GIVE YOU GOLD TOKEN TROLOLOLO ...i will understand much but this is really crazy shit and spit right into our faces

[Usernameforforums]

It isn't. The recent Blue post about the token pretty much confirms that they've been in the same escalating arms race against gold sellers which resulted in their decision to add the token to retail back in WoD. And while I still think more manpower on Blizzard's end could have staved off some of the negative effects for a longer period of time (at least until WotLK is done), it's important to understand from a game developer standpoint that as long as there's capital at stake that people will do whatever they can to use capital in a way which circumvents rules to their advantage. There's no winning that particular battle. It was lost the second Blizzard added virtual currency to the game.

Not that anybody upset about the token will accept this answer -- they'll just accuse them of making shit up and go about their day being hopelessly mad at a situation they barely understand.

Exactly.


Sorry, my post there was sarcastic.

[Kralljin]

Why do you keep returning to some original point and completely ignore all the explication that was provided? We've had this discussion before. And every time you just do a swift turn back to the beginning as soon as you realize you're losing all ground.

Because your argument raises the bar to such an unrealistic level that every offender must be caught else the whole system would be pointless.

The core of the argument is: Blizzard doesn't put enough resources into it, which is not a farfetched given that we know:
1. (Activision) Blizzard has cut down on non development roles, that is something they've confirmed years ago
2. A worsening RMT situation can be used as a reasoning to implement the WoW Token
3. The WoW Token is not sold at cost price, it sells gametime at roughly 50% more than the regular sub / game time (which also limits its effectiveness at combating RMT)

I simply do not believe that this receives the funds to operate at a better level, because Blizzard has at the operational level an incentive to *not* invest into combating this problem more effectively.

Since this being sold as a quality of life feature, why not just raise the rewards from quests? kill two birds with one stone, better quality of life and no bots since there's enough gold.

Gold is not really a QoL factor in Wrath Classic.
They even outlined this in their own post, consumables and such are dirt cheap, even epic flying is easily within reach by just questing.
You can get by in Wrath Classic on pretty frugal(?) means, as long as you don't excessively throw gold at something else.

The lion's share of goldbuying comes out of GDKP's, because it requires tremendous amounts of gold to buy high value items.
It's not about QoL, it's about being able to buy items in a GDKP run.

If everyone has more gold, the prices in GDKP merely go up, that's about it.

[Relapses]

Exactly.


Sorry, my post there was sarcastic.

No need to apologize. As somebody who is almost never not sarcastic that's a cross I've had to bear many times. I just wanted to elaborate a bit because if you read the comments section of that Blue post you'll see exactly what I said in the last half of that post happening.

[Lolites]

Drug comparison doesn't work that well because that would mean that the government should legalize drugs.
And by that, we're talking about the full spectrum here, weed to heroin and the legalization of all substances is an extremely fringe position.

and they absolutely should, would achieve better results than the laughable "war on drugs"

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To start to fix the problem now you'd need massive, sweeping banwaves, innocents be damned, to sow fear into the buyer base.

yeah would work so well! look how drastic measures stopped all the drug trade around the world!
oh wait...

[Kralljin]

and they absolutely should, would achieve better results than the laughable "war on drugs"

Okay, then let's make two statements:

1. Let's legalize weed
2. Let's legalize heroin

I'm going to guess you'd find more people agreeing with 1. than with 2..
Why the double standard, they're both drugs, right?

[rrayy]

The solution for bots? Its that you hire like 2 people who ban all the bots. You can clearly see who is a bot. Go to every outland zone, go to botanica, go to zuldrak and ban every DK without guild that only moves in straight lines. Also every 58 DK in vanilla zones mining ores. Its not that hard. But that would require spending money on 2 wages instead of milking your customers.

LOL you think those botters will simply quit? Nope, they will get a new account and continue doing it not to mention you did nothing about the bot software itself. You are beyond naive if you think it is that simple.

[Usernameforforums]

LOL you think those botters will simply quit? Nope, they will get a new account and continue doing it not to mention you did nothing about the bot software itself. You are beyond naive if you think it is that simple.

They also don’t even pay for their subs. They will get their credit card company to refund their sub if they get banned. They will also use stolen credit cards. They won’t stop. It’s free profit, why would they?

I have a friend that lives in China and he told me this.

[rrayy]

Easy, put a GM on cleanup duty for a week to round up the servers. Like, they're really in your face.

And bot users will make new accounts and continue botting. It is hilarious that people think simply banning accounts will stop botting. It won't.

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They also don’t even pay for their subs. They will get their credit card company to refund their sub if they get banned. They will also use stolen credit cards. They won’t stop. It’s free profit, why would they?

I have a friend that lives in China and he told me this.

There is that as well. The gold selling botters aren't going to care about getting banned.

People that think banning accounts will stop the problem completely really have no clue what they are talking about.

[kranur]

And bot users will make new accounts and continue botting. It is hilarious that people think simply banning accounts will stop botting. It won't.

Then keep doing it. As soon as botters will spend more on accounts than they make from botting they will back down.