welp they finally did it: WoW Token on Wrath Classic

[Dadwen]

When that suffering is subsidized onto the customers themselves by forcing them into shady portions of the internet to do something they were going to do anyway I argue that it's morally less reprehensible to give these people what they want.

I think it's morally reprehensible for a big corp to mislead their customers, (to be fair it's worse, people going to shady sites kinda know they could be taking a risk, when one does business with a large well know corp you kinda expect them to stand by what they say).

[Relapses]

You are again ignoring all arguments, and moving the goal post. First you said the market for botters will collapse, then you said it will affect them in "a few weeks" and now you say "the argument isn't that the token eliminates botters". What is it now?

My argument hasn't changed, only your understanding of it.

then show it again, tell me which blue post you mean. Why are you trying to deflect that?

It's the one where Blizzard says the same things I'm saying. You know, the one where they're lying.

I would rather believe someone who has botted since vanilla than some random guy on MMOC with no knowledge in botting whatsoever.

Ilmao what? Reaching really far here

We're playing capitalist hellscape chicken and the egg. Blizzard committed the original sin by going with a sub model for WoW, kinda weird to then attack them for attempting to extract further wealth from this model when it becomes obvious that virtual currency is (an unintentionally) profitable third party venture.

[Dadwen]

fair enough, but leaving the bots and gold sellers rampant does that too...

yeah yeah "just solve the issue" wouldnt, sadly over DECADES of the issue both in wow and other game there is no solution...
its akin to war on drug trade, only thing that was ever MILDLY succesful was making some of the drugs more or less legal, and trying to control the market...

My main issue is they seem to follow the pillars when it suits them, and pitches them out the windows when it doesn't.

again they are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts they are making buck from it.

[Lolites]

No worries I understand that everybody can lie on the internet.

yet you are wiling to believe it just bcs its against blizzard, even though the person might lie as he benefits from it...
sharp as marble...

[Dadwen]

When that suffering is subsidized onto the customers themselves by forcing them into shady portions of the internet to do something they were going to do anyway I argue that it's morally less reprehensible to give these people what they want.

Customer can choose to play the game and deal or not deal with the shady sites, where as if you want to play the game you still would have to deal with the shady business....

[Lolites]

My main issue is they seem to follow the pillars when it suits them, and pitches them out the windows when it doesn't.

im sorry, so adapting to reality is now a bad thing?

again they are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts they are making buck from it.

ofc, they are busines... but that doesnt mean its a bad thing...
its a solution (partial) to an issue, they dont have better, so they use it, the issue is still partialy solved...

[Relapses]

I think it's morally reprehensible for a big corp to mislead their customers, (to be fair it's worse, people going to shady sites kinda know they could be taking a risk, when one does business with a large well know corp you kinda expect them to stand by what they say).

I also expect them to solve problems in the game as well. If a problem is past the point where they can control it with traditional methods and they have a solution exists which solved the same problem in a different version of the game it seems a bit weird to just sit on that forever.

[Leodric]

My argument hasn't changed, only your understanding of it.

It's the one where Blizzard says the same things I'm saying. You know, the one where they're lying.

So deflecting again, I see. Even after asking you thrice now you still won't provide, we both know what that means .

We're playing capitalist hellscape chicken and the egg. Blizzard committed the original sin by going with a sub model for WoW, kinda weird to then attack them for attempting to extract further wealth from this model when it becomes obvious that virtual currency is a profitable third party venture.

One has nothing to do with the other, only because you have a subscription model doesn't mean you have to lie and break your own pillars to make profit out of it with a false pretens to "fight the bots"

[Dadwen]

im sorry, so adapting to reality is now a bad thing?

it is when you're misleading your customers (think you are buying product A but getting Product B)

[Leodric]

ofc, they are busines... but that doesnt mean its a bad thing...
its a solution (partial) to an issue, they dont have better, so they use it, the issue is still partialy solved...

So they are using a "solution" they tried with retail, which didn't fight the bots one bit but brought them lots of profit again for classic which won't fight the bots again but bring them profit, just to break their own pillar and calling it "adapting to the situation", got it

[Relapses]

Customer can choose to play the game and deal or not deal with the shady sites, where as if you want to play the game you still would have to deal with the shady business....

If you feel like Blizzard adding the token is a bridge too far then you have the power as a customer to unsubscribe. If enough people unsubscribe then Blizzard will, in fact, be negatively impacted by this decision.

[Leodric]

yet you are wiling to believe it just bcs its against blizzard, even though the person might lie as he benefits from it...

very convenient for you to ignore the rest of my post. I explained why I am believing him. Where does he benefit from it? Did you even read the reddit post?

sharp as marble...

Yep, you seem to be

[Dadwen]

I also expect them to solve problems in the game as well. If a problem is past the point where they can control it with traditional methods and they have a solution exists which solved the same problem in a different version of the game it seems a bit weird to just sit on that forever.

I also expect them to keep their word, if they can't solve the problem and do that too they need to look at other solutions or as I said be ready to get raked over the coals for it or take a bit of a hit for it not make more money from it.

[Relapses]

I also expect them to keep their word, if they can't solve the problem and do that too they need to look at other solutions or as I said be ready to get raked over the coals for it or take a bit of a hit for it not make more money from it.

What other solutions are there?

[Dadwen]

If you feel like Blizzard adding the token is a bridge too far then you have the power as a customer to unsubscribe. If enough people unsubscribe then Blizzard will, in fact, be negatively impacted by this decision.

I'm not subscribed and have said so a few times in this thread, and it's due to them saying we had no plans of adding RDF due to their pillars crap. *I was on a very lopsided server (still have screen shots of less that 3 people on at prime times, was holding out for LK so I could at least do some dungeons via RDF. )

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What other solutions are there?

if they are going to break their word to their customer, be willing to take a hit for it...

Noticed you seem to shy away from saying they didn't lie to now they did but it's for world peace or something....

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im sorry, so adapting to reality is now a bad thing?



ofc, they are busines... but that doesnt mean its a bad thing...
its a solution (partial) to an issue, they dont have better, so they use it, the issue is still partialy solved...

it is when they break their word to their customers.

yes they are and as a business I expect them to stand by what they say.. (if they can't they should take a hit for it not profit from it).

[Relapses]

if they are going to break their word to their customer, be willing to take a hit for it...

Noticed you seem to shy away from saying they didn't lie to now they did but it's for world peace or something....

I spent two pages belaboring the whole "lying" argument so I'm not going to spin my wheels on it any longer. I was asking you to elaborate on solutions to the bot problem which aren't the token.

[Dadwen]

I spent two pages belaboring the whole "lying" argument so I'm not going to spin my wheels on it any longer. I was asking you to elaborate on solutions to the bot problem which aren't the token.

A: put in place a better login auth system.
B: more GM's and people monitoring gold setting sites.
C: Much more in world GM's half the bots are so easy to spot a blind person could point them out.

or crazy idea as I've said if they are going to break their word to their customers not profit from it....(a solution no but at least it a we're sorry we tried nothing (out side of crap IT auto banning that grabs easy to find bots and ones reported 10000's times) and ran out of ideas).

ya I think the (they didn't lie wheel is flat at this point) I don't give a dam if they did it to cure world hunger and grow back the rain forest a lie is still a lie.

[Lolites]

it is when they break their word to their customers.

hard disagree, in this case doing nothing would be WORSE, and would also kinda break their word to customers...
and since there is no other solution, they used the one they know helps (not solve the issue, helps)

tbh in case of gold/boosts/token im "on side" with blizz simply bcs its completely PLAYER DRIVEN

yes they are and as a business I expect them to stand by what they say.. (if they can't they should take a hit for it not profit from it).

then you will never have successfull business...
things change, those who dont adapt will die... also baning THOUSANDS of bots (who had to pay sub) is taking a hit, yet they do it...

but please tell me ONE just ONE solution to gold selling that wouldnt affect economy... bcs thats what they "lied" about, so your suggestion is to leave it be? bcs any solution would affect economy, as the economy is pretty much the problem

[Relapses]

A: put in place a better login auth system.

This would also have a knock-on effect of potentially losing customers if the authentication measures become too draconian.

B: more GM's and people monitoring gold setting sites.

There's thousands of them and the problem is the botters, not necessarily the gold selling sites -- the botters sell to the gold selling sites, who take a bit off the top for themselves.

C: Much more in world GM's half the bots are so easy to spot a blind person could point them out.

Who is to say they don't already have people doing that? The botters care less if they get banned and they're just going to keep creating erroneous accounts so it's like a several-headed hydra. They cut off one botter then 10 more appear in its place. That's why this is an ever-escalating issue.

Now, I do agree that more human oversight would likely help with the issue and there's high probability that the timing of the token being added now has more to do with budgetary concerns within Blizzard then it does the scale of the problem but that's speaking purely from intuition. I think a lot of people simply assume that because bots exist that Blizzard's anti-botting tech must be fully automated and we simply don't know enough about how their detection methods work to make such an assumption.

[Leodric]

things change, those who dont adapt will die... also baning THOUSANDS of bots (who had to pay sub) is taking a hit, yet they do it...

Banning bots is just a minor inconvenience for botters, they are not paying the same price as you and I for the same things, but if you would have actually read the thread you would understand it how it's a not a solution to implement tokens in classic. Blizzard is not stupid, they know that but since it's a good excuse they will use it for some extra money