Iconic Weapons Part 5

[Grazrug]

That reminds me that given how the horde got away with the scourge 2.0 phase, it wouldn't be crazy to bring Yrel back and make her just join the alliance like nothing happenned. That'd be better than another stupid villain bat for future raid bosses.

The Laughing Skull betrayed the alliance shortly after and then absorbed into the Fel Horde. Also lol if you can't handle the villan bat once imagine what the Horde felts after at least 4 attempts. You know nothing.

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Suramar right now only is horde in canon, but barely ingame. I'd say the alliance got Mechagon, which is also super cool in concept (and a friendly phased version is available for all alliance characters), but in reality/ingame is a very small area. The same can be said for Blackrock Depths, with the friendly phase only available for Dark Irons, and it's just a little section of it, not the full dungeon.

If blizzard decides to revamp suramar a bit in the future, considering the current "faction philosophy", it will probably be neutral just like Gilneas and Belameth.

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I'm not talking about lore here. Blizzard could write lore to make sense of ogres joining the alliance and not the horde. I talk about themes and iconic races linked to their factions from the origins of the franchise and betraying those in wow with some new lore as an excuse.

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It's not about it being alliance in lore or not. In W2 and W3 the high elf units were a core part of the human/alliance campaign/playable faction, and if you choose alliance in WoW, you don't get to play them (prior to void elves at least). The same cannot be said about the horde, where all its themes and races from W1-3 are there with the exception of ogres (which are long overdue imo). That's why I'm comparing the elves on the horde with alliance getting the ogres.

And yeah I'm older than 17.

What was left of the old players is in their 30s now with job and family. I doubt they are still linked to the game. Alot of new folks came with Legion and they are in their teens still.


And I say this. Should Forest Trolls or Ogres ever be an option about playable races we talk again.

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It's actually already there.

In AU Draenor, Kor'gall, Chieftain of the Stonemaul Clan, allied with Yrel and the Lightbound against the Orcs.

Another example comes from WC2: BtDP, where the Laughing Skull Clan led by the Ogre Mogor allied with the Alliance Expedition against the Orcs.

This shows us that the Ogre are highly-opportunistic and don't actually have any kind of "brotherly" bond with the Orcs like the Tauren and Troll do. Indeed, Ogre and Orcs have been at war for most of their existence. The one time they allied is an irrelevant blip in their history.

The fact that Kor'gall and the Stonemaul Clan allied with Yrel and the Lightbound and that Mogor allied with the Alliance Expedition shows us that it's not unreasonable for an Ogre clan to ally with the Alliance.

As for Forest Trolls, considering how their city was raided and leader killed by the Horde in TBC (NOT The Alliance, this is Chronicles Lore), and that majority of Thalassians are now in the Horde (as Horde supporters love to flaunt as some funny attempt at a "gotcha!" against High/Void Elves), it actually makes more sense for Forest Trolls to join the Alliance over the Horde.

Horde certainly doesn't have dibs on Ogre and Forest Trolls. If both races become playable down the line (very unlikely), I foresee them becoming Neutral or outright siding with the Alliance out of convenience.

They wil see through your hoax. You wouldn't help them to get their land back. You want the high elves to own it. That is not the clever move you make it seem.

[allegrian]

The Laughing Skull betrayed the alliance shortly after and then absorbed into the Fel Horde. Also lol if you can't handle the villan bat once imagine what the Horde felts after at least 4 attempts. You know nothing.

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What was left of the old players is in their 30s now with job and family. I doubt they are still linked to the game. Alot of new folks came with Legion and they are in their teens still.


And I say this. Should Forest Trolls or Ogres ever be an option about playable races we talk again.

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They wil see through your hoax. You wouldn't help them to get their land back. You want the high elves to own it. That is not the clever move you make it seem.

I remember seeing a data study not too long ago about how old are the characters/accounts at level 70 from websites like warcraftlogs or similar, and most were +10 years old, so I'm not sure most players now are on the younger side.

[Varodoc]

That reminds me that given how the horde got away with the scourge 2.0 phase, it wouldn't be crazy to bring Yrel back and make her just join the alliance like nothing happenned. That'd be better than another stupid villain bat for future raid bosses.

Yrel hasn't really done anything wrong so far.

Killing orcs of the Iron Horde is not wrong; we've been doing that for the entirety of WoD and no one ever felt bad about it.

I do expect the Alliance to welcome the Lightbound if they ever cross into the MU.

[Syegfryed]

You're not angry that Blizzard is "eager to destroy their IP", your angry that Blizzard is no longer catering to the Horde like they did in TBC.

Imagine that they were "catering to the horde" in TBC, and not the alliance trough the game-lifetime, just because the asian fanbase wanted that.

The only expansion that was "catered" to the horde was cataclysm, and it was mainly to fixing the blatantly unbalance the factions had in quests and territories.

You must have enjoyed being the centre of attention in TBC, when Alliance didn't even have a new race revealed with Blood Elves because Blizzard was lost on what to give to the Alliance after their historic race, High Elves, was cannibalized for the Horde Korean players.

No, i never played TBC, i came to play wow by the end of wrath, when they announced Cata. And like we saw in the Frozen Throne expansion The alliance "lost" the elves back then, You may not like, but it is what it is.

You must have enjoyed Blizzard showering you with gifts in TBC, giving the Horde a pretty Elf city while Alliance got stuck with a wreckage.

This is going a bit off rails, what gifts exactly? a new race and a city in ruins? arguably a spaceship that fell from the sky with aliens is much more interesting that an toklien-elf style race and city.

Like i said, yeah, they had motives outside the game to add BE to horde, but it was supported by lore AND brought something truly unique in the fantasy genre. Elves siding with "monsters": orcs, trolls and minotaurs and the alien monster(draenei) got to side with the humans, dwarves and gnomes. It was not something they made up with nothing and it was not a plot hole in the history either

The party is over.

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Weird to say that, in the subject about elves

[Grazrug]

Yrel hasn't really done anything wrong so far.

Killing orcs of the Iron Horde is not wrong; we've been doing that for the entirety of WoD and no one ever felt bad about it.

I do expect the Alliance to welcome the Lightbound if they ever cross into the MU.

That is not true and your bait is tiresome. The Mag'har are not the Iron Horde. All their leaders are dead they were dismantled. This is happening 35 yearrs after and is a much worse war then Bfa even cuz there was a substential amount of peace time inbetween. That is why Blizzard would never reverse the cards cuz they know partisands of the alliance would already satrting with "Actually we are justifed because.....":

[Syegfryed]

It's not only Silvermoon. The horde took one big part of the alliance side fantasy to their side where they stick out like a sore thumb. One of the main races in the human/alliance campaigns of W3 and W2 were the high elves and they became an iconic part of the fantasy alongside humans and dwarves (and yeah you can call that boring, unoriginal or whatever, but some people like that).

Like i said before, the alliance LOST that side fantasy in the Frozen throne, it had nothing to do with horde. And they already lost then once back in WC2 as the elves also left the alliance back then

You can count the side units made it recognizable.... sure, but what high elf character was present or important in the alliance side of the Reign of chaos campaign? You have Jaina(and therefore the kirin tor) assuming the spot of "magic folk"(and magic city), you had paladins, you had Arthas, and thats it. The named elf that show up was Sylvanas, who became a forsaken, you do not play then, you kill then playing scourge. Compare that to the Tauren in Reign of chaos, who had Cairne as an important figure for the horde.

The elven units in Wc3: reign of chaos were only the elf priest, which does not fit the theme of "elf mage" and the sorcerers, who was ambiguous human, we only know it was elf because the wc3 manual told us so, and she was sent, from kirint tor, a human city. Units like dragonhwak rider, spell breaker and the blood mage were only added in the Frozen throne expansion, when they left the alliance.

In wc2 you only had ONE unit, and it was the elven archer, not fitting the "elf mage" theme. I think you also ahve one ship as "elven ship" or whatever, but hardly count as iconic. Didn't play the campaign in a while, so i think there was only Alleria as sidekick hero.

One of the alliance themes were magic and magic cities and it was also taken by the horde (and again in legion with suramar), whose theme was monster, barbaric and nomadic races. That's why people wanted high elves on the alliance for so long.

You talk like the alliance did not take horde themes over and over again, right? the draenei were monsters AND shamans, shamanism was the horde thematic, Worgens were beastly werewolves, Varian became champion of Goldrin, wolf wild god and a barbarian gladiator. The wolf and the "barbarian" were all orcish thematic, and yet again with shamans from the kul'tirans.


Again, back in TBC was something rly groundbreaking, monsters to the alliance and elves to horde, it broke the thematic making the game more interesting for both sides, if you want to play monster and a shaman you can do that as an alliance, if you want to be a paladin "pretty" race, you can go to horde, and why it was so popular for so long. If you just like the thematic of elves, you would have no problem in what faction they would be.

Imagine that the Ogres become playable only for the Alliance. That's similar to having the elves go to the horde side in TBC.

Thats not similar, at all, because ogres did not have an ENTIRE CAMPAIGN about then abandoning the horde for survival, and later, an old ogre hero, who joined the alliance asking then to also join the alliance, cause btw, that was what happened with the elves. Another problem with that, in specific, is that there is people on the horde who enjoyed blood elves joining, there would be no one in the alliance who would enjoy ogres joining then, especially if it was paired with blood elves on horde.

But all and on, at least blood elves did have lore to draw upon and made then join the horde with the frozen throne stuff, with ogres would be close to impossible, especially knowing the ogres joined the horde back in the found of durotar campaing.

If they indeed made that back in TBC, it would suck, just like it does suck elves joining the horde, but it would change the fact that it would be a groundbreaking change in the fantasy genre, and as time passed it would solidify it

[allegrian]

Like i said before, the alliance LOST that side fantasy in the Frozen throne, it had nothing to do with horde. And they already lost then once back in WC2 as the elves also left the alliance back then

You can count the side units made it recognizable, sure, but what high elf character was present or important in the alliance side of the Reign of chaos campaign? You have Jaina(and therefore the kirin tor) assuming the spot of "magic folk", you had paladins, you had Arthas, and thats it. The elves that show up was Sylvanas, who became a forsaken, you do not play then, you kill then playing scourge. Compare that to the Tauren in Reign of chaos who had Cairne as an important figure for the horde.

The elven units in Wc3: reign of chaos were the elf priest, which does not fit the theme of "elf mage" and the sorcerers, whow as ambiguous human, we only know it was elf because the wc3 manual. Units like dragonhwak rider, spell breaker and the blood mage were only added in the Frozen throne expansion, when they left the alliance.



You talk like the alliance did not take horde themes over and over again, right? the draenei were monsters AND shamans, shamanism was the horde thematic, Worgens were beastly werewolves, Varian became champion of Goldrin, wolf wild god and a barbarian gladiator. The wolf and the "barbarian" were all orcish thematic, and yet again with shamans from the kul'tirans.


Again, back in TBC was something rly groundbreaking, monsters to the alliance and elves to horde, it broke the thematic making the game more interesting for both sides, if you want to play monster and a shaman you can do that as an alliance, if you want to be a paladin "pretty" race, you can go to horde, and why it was so popular for so long. If you just like the thematic of elves, you would have no problem in what faction they would be.



Thats not similar, at all, because ogres did not have an ENTIRE CAMPAIGN about then abandoning the horde for survival, and later, an old ogre hero, who joined the alliance asking then to also join the alliance, cause btw, that was what happened with the elves. Another problem with that, in specific, is that there is people on the horde who enjoyed blood elves joining, there would be no one in the alliance who would enjoy ogres joining then, especially if it was paired with blood elves on horde.

But all and on, at least blood elves did have lore to draw upon and made then join the horde with the frozen throne stuff, with ogres would be close to impossible, especially knowing the ogres joined the horde back in the found of durotar campaing.

If they indeed made that back in TBC, it would suck, just like it does suck elves joining the horde, but it would change the fact that it would be a groundbreaking change in the fantasy genre, and as time passed it would solidify it

Even if the alliance lost it in W3, the horde had nothing to do with them either, and they end their relationship with kaelthas very soon into TBC. The same way blizzard wrote some excuse lore/quests to put them in the horde, the same could have been written to put them back in the alliance. At the end of the day it was garithos that wronged them, who's dead and he was from lordaeron, not stormwind.

And for important alliance elf characters, we have Alleria (who has a statue in stormwind), who came back and people still complain about her being alliance.

[Grazrug]

Like i said before, the alliance LOST that side fantasy in the Frozen throne, it had nothing to do with horde. And they already lost then once back in WC2 as the elves also left the alliance back then

You can count the side units made it recognizable, sure, but what high elf character was present or important in the alliance side of the Reign of chaos campaign? You have Jaina(and therefore the kirin tor) assuming the spot of "magic folk", you had paladins, you had Arthas, and thats it. The elves that show up was Sylvanas, who became a forsaken, you do not play then, you kill then playing scourge. Compare that to the Tauren in Reign of chaos who had Cairne as an important figure for the horde.

The elven units in Wc3: reign of chaos were the elf priest, which does not fit the theme of "elf mage" and the sorcerers, whow as ambiguous human, we only know it was elf because the wc3 manual. Units like dragonhwak rider, spell breaker and the blood mage were only added in the Frozen throne expansion, when they left the alliance.



You talk like the alliance did not take horde themes over and over again, right? the draenei were monsters AND shamans, shamanism was the horde thematic, Worgens were beastly werewolves, Varian became champion of Goldrin, wolf wild god and a barbarian gladiator. The wolf and the "barbarian" were all orcish thematic, and yet again with shamans from the kul'tirans.


Again, back in TBC was something rly groundbreaking, monsters to the alliance and elves to horde, it broke the thematic making the game more interesting for both sides, if you want to play monster and a shaman you can do that as an alliance, if you want to be a paladin "pretty" race, you can go to horde, and why it was so popular for so long. If you just like the thematic of elves, you would have no problem in what faction they would be.



Thats not similar, at all, because ogres did not have an ENTIRE CAMPAIGN about then abandoning the horde for survival, and later, an old ogre hero, who joined the alliance asking then to also join the alliance, cause btw, that was what happened with the elves. Another problem with that, in specific, is that there is people on the horde who enjoyed blood elves joining, there would be no one in the alliance who would enjoy ogres joining then, especially if it was paired with blood elves on horde.

But all and on, at least blood elves did have lore to draw upon and made then join the horde with the frozen throne stuff, with ogres would be close to impossible, especially knowing the ogres joined the horde back in the found of durotar campaing.

If they indeed made that back in TBC, it would suck, just like it does suck elves joining the horde, but it would change the fact that it would be a groundbreaking change in the fantasy genre, and as time passed it would solidify it

We can make it quick actually. What cities does the Alliance currently have even without Silvermoon?

Boralus
Stormwind
Ironforge
Gilneas
Stromgarde
Mechagon
the upper parts of Gnomeregan
Shadowforge/Blackrock Depths
Exodar


IDK about you but that looks pretty much like a civilization cradle right there. What Vardaoc is actually mad about that the situation of the alliance wasn't reversed back to the second war situation when all of the eastern Kingdoms were part of the alliance. They don't want fairness. They want domination. All of it. Mace thinks the same. He wants Kaldorei empire back. The Horde even being allowed to exist is already insulting for these type of players who hated the game the moment there was another faction in it that has some parts of the world out of their control.

[Maljinwo]

Elf fanatics are the worst

[Grazrug]

Elf fanatics are the worst

I hope you don't talk about me here. I enjoy the whole Horde belves are just my main character.

[allegrian]

We can make it quick actually. What cities does the Alliance currently have even without Silvermoon?

Boralus
Stormwind
Ironforge
Gilneas
Stromgarde
Mechagon
the upper parts of Gnomeregan
Shadowforge/Blackrock Depths
Exodar


IDK about you but that looks pretty much like a civilization cradle right there. What Vardaoc is actually mad about that the situation of the alliance wasn't reversed back to the second war situation when all of the eastern Kingdoms were part of the alliance. They don't want fairness. They want domination. All of it. Mace thinks the same. He wants Kaldorei empire back. The Horde even being allowed to exist is already insulting for these type of players who hated the game the moment there was another faction in it that has some parts of the world out of their control.

That's the thing: the alliance theme is to have huge phantasy cities, while the horde is about having stuff more similar to Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff (and zul gurub/aman), but having dark powers and being strong monsters and huge numbers to compensate.

[steelballfc]

Jesus christ. It was almost 17 years ago

Belves are horde. Let it go

old wounds will not be healed
as long as we are alive, alliance will complain about TBC as much as horde complain about MOP

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Imagine that the Ogres become playable only for the Alliance. That's similar to having the elves go to the horde side in TBC.

if the ogre become playable for the alliance you have my blessing.

[Grazrug]

That's the thing: the alliance theme is to have huge phantasy cities, while the horde is about having stuff more similar to Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff (and zul gurub/aman), but having dark powers and being strong monsters and huge numbers to compensate.

So this is yet another "Why aren't they smelly savages and bad guys anymore?!" Do you have other arguments?

I don't enjoy Orgrimmar and avoid it when I can. Its not huge, full of iron spikes and locks like a barracks instead of a city.

Zuldazar
Thundertotem
Suramar
Silvermoon
Bilgewater harbor
even Frkn Garadar all look so much better.

Darkspear island is still rather small

and the Vulpera and Mag'Har are homeless.

Idk where you all see the bias here tbh.

[Syegfryed]

Even if the alliance lost it in W3, the horde had nothing to do with them either

My dude, do you remember, in the Reign of chaos campaign, in WC3, who was the elf lady, who defended Quel'thalas against the scourge and even gave her life to save her people? Do you know her? She literally was a horde character. She was the ONLY one who reach for then in aid, and rushed then to join the horde for their own good( she was also aiming to use then agains the Luch king).

That is far more than what alliance had, they tried to genocide their people and kill their Prince, they did not send aid or any help in all these years.

Sure, you can create lore about then saying "fuck you Sylvanas" and ignore their war hero and join the very faction that kill then and ignored their demise for many years, sure, you can make a convoluted lore to explain that. But you can't possible say they had "nothing" to do with the horde when Sylvanas was a horde character.

It all boils down 1. path of least resistance(which is easier or what fit lore more) 2.What would do more profit( as something new/unique). Blood elves joining the horde was easier to write and would made profit, by making something new and unique.

At the end of the day it was garithos that wronged them, who's dead and he was from lordaeron, not stormwind.

Garithos was the defacto leader of the alliance, and when the leadership center shifted from lordaeron to stormwind, Stormwind did not lift a finger to help the elves

And for important alliance elf characters, we have Alleria (who has a statue in stormwind), who came back and people still complain about her being alliance.

she was only present, if memory serves well, in the beyond dark portal expansion and not rly that big of show up. And im pretty sure no one in the horde rly care about her being alliance. People just point how she is a traitor who abandoned her own people for the alliance, which is understandable, since she was unaware of the events who happened in azeroth, but still funny that she still is alliance despite knowing later.

[steelballfc]

It's ok, we got void/high elves and will get Silvermoon in midnight anyways.

sure the horde the nothing now, so ya we all are alliance

[Syegfryed]

if the ogre become playable for the alliance you have my blessing.

At this point, sure, i don't even care if its horde, alliance, fel or void ogres, as long it is actually ogres playable

[Grazrug]

old wounds will not be healed
as long as we are alive, alliance will complain about TBC as much as horde complain about MOP

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if the ogre become playable for the alliance you have my blessing.

If you can pinpoint and which point whenever the blood elves were part of the modern alliance you might have an argument. Until then Blizzard is deciding what they do with their IP.

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At this point, sure, i don't even care if its horde, alliance, fel or void ogres, as long it is actually ogres playable

Hell will freeze before Ogres or Forest Trolls join either side.

[steelballfc]

Elf fanatics are the worst

indeed, it's the Toxic fans in this forums

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If you can pinpoint and which point whenever the blood elves were part of the modern alliance you might have an argument. Until then Blizzard is deciding what they do with their IP.

you are talking to the wrong person but sure.

[Maljinwo]

old wounds will not be healed
as long as we are alive, alliance will complain about TBC as much as horde complain about MOP

.

MoP was great tho?
The only people I ever see complaining about MoP are the warmongering garrosh fanatics

[Grazrug]

My dude, do you remember, in the Reign of chaos campaign, in WC3, who was the elf lady, who defended Quel'thalas against the scourge and even gave her life to save her people? Do you know her? She literally was a horde character. She was the ONLY one who reach for then in aid, and rushed then to join the horde for their own good( she was also aiming to use then agains the Luch king).

That is far more than what alliance had, they tried to genocide their people and kill their Prince, they did not send aid or any help in all these years.

Sure, you can create lore about then saying "fuck you Sylvanas" and ignore their war hero and join the very faction that kill then and ignored their demise for many years, sure, you can make a convoluted lore to explain that. But you can't possible say they had "nothing" to do with the horde when Sylvanas was a horde character.

It all boils down 1. path of least resistance(which is easier or what fit lore more) 2.What would do more profit( as something new/unique). Blood elves joining the horde was easier to write and would made profit, by making something new and unique.



Garithos was the defacto leader of the alliance, and when the leadership center shifted from lordaeron to stormwind, Stormwind did not lift a finger to help the elves



she was only present, if memory serves well, in the beyond dark portal expansion and not rly that big of show up. And im pretty sure no one in the horde rly care about her being alliance. People just point how she is a traitor who abandoned her own people for the alliance, which is understandable, since she was unaware of the events who happened in azeroth, but still funny that she still is alliance despite knowing later.

The statues in Silvermoon are for Kael'thas and Sylvanas. We have the priorities inn the right places. The fact only humans honor them this much tells you all you need to know.