Gear Score

[Kawakazi]

I run a successful weekly PuG group for ICC 25 with a few hard modes. Usually we have 4-6 empty spots for a few dps and one healer. Since most people in the raid have a 6.2k+ gear score and competant, I am lenient on GS requirements. There are hard modes in there (Lady Deathwhisper, lootship, Dreamwalker, rotface, and Festergut) so I ask for 5.6k gear score, which isn't hard to get with frost / triumph emblems + 1 or 2 pieces of ICC 10 normal gear. If we don't get a full raid with that I cut out a few of the hard modes and depending on what I can pull together, the GS req goes down to 5.2 if that is all I can find, we just won't do most of the hard modes.

Of course I also check to make sure players that make this requirement aren't in full pvp gear, a few pieces is fine (like the neck, it is really helpful for a caster to make hit cap when starting out). Also if they are a little under the req, but say it is because certain pieces are good and just have a low ilvl, I will inspect them too, looking for good low ilvl stuff, like ulduar 25 trinkets and such, a great example is Greatness (http://www.wowhead.com/item=44253) which is an awesome trinket for starting feral druids, rogues, and hunters. I usually add 50 gs for that specific trinket alone.

I make exceptions for people my consistent puggers tell me are good and worth carrying and the good pugger's alts on non hardmode / Sindragosa and Lich King. It just takes some time, which you can use to get good at your character (co siding with "Skill > GS". There are of course exceptions, but chances are, if you have a 5.6k gear score from things that take time, like those emeblems, you are going to be good at your character.

I have brought people into my raid with Gear Score as low as 3.7k, which is "I just hit 80" gear, but they stayed alive, didn't die in void zones, DPS'd what needed to be, and he even got the bite rotation down first time. Now he has 5.9k GS and runs with us consistantly. This is a prime example of "Skill>GS". Unfortunatly, he is an exception to my requirement because three people vouched for him. If no one vouches for some random poorly geared player, how will I know if they have skill?

However, I constantly eat shit from people telling me I am bad for using Gear Score and constantly hear things like "Take players for skill not gear score" which I do for people that have shown themselves to me or other people in my raid (See the exceptions part). But this always comes from people with 4-5k GS, which, first of all is well below my requirement, and second, is blue gear + a few triumph pieces.

I know a lot of the MMO-Champion community generaly hates GS, but am I fair with it? I'm not one of those "LF heroics 6k gs req" tards. I ask for a certain gear level that is required to do ICC, and more or less carry in the hard modes. If you read this huge wall of text that I'm sure your health bar is in the red AND blinking from, you could see I have a fair requirement, I make exceptions for exceptional players, and I take the time to look at more than their GS, I just use it as a sort of template.

I put a lot of time and effort into making a good pug group, so I ask again, am I fair with how I make my raid and what I require of it?

There is not TL;DR possible without people getting the wrong idea on how I make my raid with GS

INB4: "GS SUCKS"

[kevindv]

gearscore is like a bikini, what it shows is suggestive. But what it hides is far more important

[King6887]

That pretty much outlines exactly how gear score should be used. It's how i tend to use it too. It's there as a guide at best, it is not absolute. ^^

[grifty]

keep doing what you're doing, kawakazi. haters gonna hate!

[Epuration]

gearscore is like a bikini, what it shows is suggestive. But what it hides is far more important

i lol'ed

[bojr]

GS is tool. Problem occurs when it's used by tools.

[Soisoisoi]

gearscore is like a bikini, what it shows is suggestive. But what it hides is far more important

That maybe true, but adds nothing to do with that he said.

And I think that is pretty fair Kawakazi, one thing I'd change about it is those lower GS'd people, inspect them and check their gems, enchants and whatnot(because even if they aren't that well geared, even you know that Skill > GS, I've had people in 4k gs person pulling more than a 5.8k gs person of the same class in the same situations) and ask them WHY they picked certain things like... AP on boots instead of Tuskarr's etc

[Aris]

gearscore is like a bikini, what it shows is suggestive. But what it hides is far more important

Oh man thats deep

ty for the new sig :P

[Kawakazi]

keep doing what you're doing, kawakazi. haters gonna hate!

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5...gonnahateb.gif

[Evolixe]

You are having a weekly pug that generally does a few hardmodes and kills the King (almost) every time? You are doing nothing wrong.

Denieing people with anything lower than toc25 gear is just normal. Only if i stood in your feed i would accept people with lower than your requirement. Generally.. i would just ask their output and anti-die skills(so to speak). And if thats good, then who cares for gear?

[Rezhial]

Gearscore is bad.


/thread

[Zeuq]

It sounds to me like the OP is using Gearscore roughly how it should be used. There's nothing wrong with requiring a certain score, provided that it's appropriate for the level of content. If he's trying to PUG ICC25 Heroics, then a 5.6k GS is fine because with much below that, unless you're ridiculously skilled, you're going to have trouble pulling your weight in terms of DPS, HPS, or survival. And to people that get pissed off because they are a little under, like say 5.4k, you can still PM the guy, say you're a little under, and explain that it's because you have some low iLevel pieces that are really good (like certain trinkets and Relics). And people with a 4.5k GS, just don't have the gear to be in a ICC25 Heroic raid; there just isn't a point in bringing them along unless they can qualify their skill because, even with a good amount of skill, they'll still be pulling up the rear and will need to be carried a bit and geared up some to contribute.

So, props to the OP for not requiring ridiculous GS and still inspecting people and not using it as a Skill=Gear number.

[Kawakazi]

That maybe true, but adds nothing to do with that he said.

And I think that is pretty fair Kawakazi, one thing I'd change about it is those lower GS'd people, inspect them and check their gems, enchants and whatnot(because even if they aren't that well geared, even you know that Skill > GS, I've had people in 4k gs person pulling more than a 5.8k gs person of the same class in the same situations) and ask them WHY they picked certain things like... AP on boots instead of Tuskarr's etc

While true on the inspecting part, If I want to get the hard modes done and continue to progress, I really can't bring someone with 4k GS every week :3 Those with 4k gs that come to my raid I would like to be reliable to come back, a friend of me or a pugger, and I can't make sure that random 4k will do so. That's the point of brining someone to carry them, to make the raid stronger as a whole. Sometimes we make the exception, one of our tanks is a med student, how he manages to log on most weeks and maintain his studies / grades is beyond me, but sometimes he doesn't make it, he's our main tank, and thats when I call off the actual hard hardmodes (Everything except lootship and dreamwalker).

Also I love melee that have Tuskaars and give the right reason, "To get to the boss/adds faster" deserves + 500 GS :P.

I would just ask their output and anti-die skills(so to speak). And if thats good, then who cares for gear?

I don't have a lie detector addon

[Evolixe]

Its a better starting point to keep the gs min higher and less work. This equates to a faster raid fill and quicker starting pulls. It is easy to call a 5.8gs person out that is not performing to their gear level.

And this is exactly what annoiys people. They want you to care for who they are, and not for gear. Because it would potentually be faster. In the end.. it's not. People will fail or leave even though their high "gearscore".

Tell me, are you one of those "oh you dont have the requirement only a guy here said you are good. Screw you your gear is bad we dont want to carry you" While hes probebly better than some of the other people you already got.

[Kawakazi]

Its a better starting point to keep the gs min higher and less work. This equates to a faster raid fill and quicker starting pulls. It is easy to call a 5.8gs person out that is not performing to their gear level.

Not true. When you bring someone with a 5.6k gs (again, easily reachable through emblems and some time) they are fairly humble and are willing to wait hours (obviously exaggerating) while I find 3 others because they want that hard mode loot. They want the normal ICC 25 gear. Whats the point of raiding if no one gets any gear because everyone outgears it? Bringing 1 undergeared player in there is a disguised plus. If they get the gear, you just made both them and your raid stronger, if they are grateful and if the run goes smoothly, they will be back next week.

[Shampayne1985]

LOL@GS

But on a serious note I think if you are trying to full clear then yes 5.6k is reasonable. I would however take say a rogue or dk with less as these classes generally can perform really well with less gear, this is in means of DPS.

Personally when I form runs on my warrior I do set a GS benchmark around 5.4-5.6 or so...but also take into account there experience on other toons and/or gemming/chants and not just some stupid number next to there name.

[Zoots]

Funny thing is I have some tool PMing me about gearscore right now. It really comes down to something pretty simple. If you are in a raid, and you need to recruit a pugger, then it's a great tool WHEN USED PROPERLY. If you only look at the gearscore number, you aren't using it right. What it does allow you to do is tell fairly quickly if the person you are looking at not only has an approximate amount of gear for the instance, but also if they understand the basic of gemming and enchanting for their spec. If their gear is all over the place and doesn't make sense, then their GS really doesn't matter now does it? I've also seen people that equip items with a high ilvl to try and trick us into taking them. That doesn't work either, and in fact makes you look scrubby. GearScore is so much more than the final number assigned, and people that don't realize that, and bash GearScore thinking those of us that use it only looking at the number output? I don't want those people that make that assumption either. No Mr. Resto specced shaman, I didn't deny you because your GS is 4.6k. I denied you because your wearing enhancement gear gemmed for resto while enchanted for enhancement.

[Zues]

What you're doing is good. Players can be brilliant at their class, but you just can't expect a fresh 80 in full dungeon blues/greens to be competent in ICC, specially 10 man's. Since you do 25's, it's a lot easier to carry someone and not so big a deal if they wipe if you have lots of other 6k+ gs people.

Don't get me wrong, I know lots of 6k+ gs dps (For example) who can barely pull 4k dps. GS<skill, but you can't have complete noob geared players.

[Illuminatum]

gearscore is like a bikini, what it shows is suggestive. But what it hides is far more important

Omg THIS!

[nannerpuss]

well gs is a suggestion because if im a 6k gs tank i should be good because i tanked that many bosses but what if its my os and i heal and my guild has it on farm so you should ask for ach and os too