There are orcs who didn't follow Garrosh, but now follow Sylvanas

[Tarba]

Trolls didn't defy him, Vol'jin did in ways. Even then, the most Vol'jin did was talk and then Garrosh decided "Kill him".

So he stuck ALL the trolls into the slums of Orgrimmar.

I highly, highly doubt that went over well with a lot of the Orcs, considering trolls and tauren are among their longest allies.

Voljin threatened to backstab him during cata. Trolls had the same treatments than the forsaken when they were under the suspision of betrayal.
But people don't care when it's the forsaken.
Like when the alliance try to assassinate their leader. ~not really important~

[Jester Joe]

I don't see that. Especially after Sylvanas spraying blight everywhere and raising the fallen to fight for them as, what it seemed like, mindless skeletons.

It was.
But it's technically possible they retreated to the point where only the player/Sylvanas see that, not the Horde in general.

Meanwhile, the orcs under Garrosh saw their allies being shoved into poverty basically.

Voljin threatened to backstab him during cata. Trolls had the same treatments than the forsaken when they were under the suspision of betrayal.
But people don't care when it's the forsaken.
Like when the alliance try to assassinate their leader. ~not really important~

It wasn't a "backstab", it was a "if you lead the Horde down a dark path, I'll kill you". Just like Saurfang also said (But for some reason, Garrosh was fine with that).

And big difference, the traitor in that case actually was a Forsaken. This time it was just Vol'jin himself, and Garrosh forced them there as a hostage against Vol'jin and punishment.

The Forsaken had guards everywhere, yeah. But they weren't forced into unlivable conditions. Well, anymore than Undercity already was.

[Maljinwo]

To be fair, so did Saurfang yet Garrosh did nothing about that.
Same threat, two different people. And even then, it was more of a "If you screw up, we will kill you"

Fair enough. Yet Saurfang was an orc. Vol'jin a troll.
Garrosh never liked trolls, not seeing them as "worthy" of protecting Orgrimmar, so Vol'jin threatening him probably got him really pissed off and he just waited for the right time to dispose of him.

[Claymore]

It's honesty a very good point, and not one I'd really put that much thought into. Ultimately, though, I think Blizzard has definitely screwed up in that is *KEEPS* focusing all of its story around the Horde.

You want to know what I honestly think happened? Some of the Devs got super into Game of Thrones, and decided "Oh, we should introduce political intrigue into the Horde", despite the fact that the ALLIANCE would have benefited more from that approach.

Think about it; the Horde is literally commanded by a single individual. The Horde has ***NEVER*** been about "preserving cultures". Even during Thrall's reign, at the end of the day, the Warchief was still the one calling the shots. The Forsaken were always kind of an outlier (and Blood Elves, somewhere in the middle), but they served under the Warchief. It's quite literally a dictatorship, and they already covered "the bad aspect of the Horde" with Garrosh.

Meanwhile, the ALLIANCE has always been a meeting of equals. THERE'S your "political intrigue". Until Mists-of-fucking-Pandaria, there was no such thing as a "High King of the Alliance", and there never should have been. That mantle needs to die with Varian Wrynn, whose sole purpose was to be "Alliance-Thrall". Instead, follow-through with Tyrande questioning the Alliance, maybe even directly calling her own troops to stop supporting the Alliance until they agree to send her some kind of reinforcements. Maybe she would align with Genn and Foreeya (or even Y'rel) in taking a more anti-Horde stance, while Velen tries to keep them unified towards peace (it would be interesting to see the new Lightforged already butting heads with the regular Draenei, making them stand out more).

But instead, Blizzard decides to conveniently rewrite BOTH ENTIRE FACTIONS because -- let's just be honest, alright? -- they wanted the Horde to have "the interesting story", and the Alliance is simply left to serve as a contrast. Just as Garrosh showed "the horrors of following a single dictator", Sylvanas now shows "the horrors of competing agendas within the same faction". It's no wonder the writing has been awful; the Devs are willing to throw continuity out the window just to play "rule of cool" with the Horde.

[Dalheim]

While I do think Sylvanas is actually a detriment to the Horde, she's done a much better job at keeping them "on her side".

She has : presented a clear, even if debatable, argument for why the war was needed, she won a resounding victory and almost purged the Alliance from Kalimdor (temporarily...), she secured (temporarily...) a powerful fleet from new allies, and she made most of the Horde culpable for warcrimes the Alliance won't soon forget - which then necessitates they stick together for survival, and demonstrably advanced Horde ambitions at the expense of her own kingdom and people.

She has not : murdered inns full of people questioning her actions, threw away lives fighting over an enemy target she was always planning to bomb into nonexistence, attempted the assassination of a racial leader just for disagreeing with her (see: Baine), inadvertently murdered a racial leader via cheating, forced races out of their homes in the Horde capital because of arbitrary notions of "Strength", infused horde races with sha/old god juju resulting in monstrosities or spectacular failures needing to be immediately disposed of, declared martial law on a race's home territory for their uneasiness with her tactics, or desecrated religious/spiritual practices of the orcs for her own gains.

Which is all to say, I think Alex was right concerning the "Garrosh was an amateur" comment. Sylvanas has, up to this point, managed to get away with a plethora of seriously controversial stuff that would have seen Garrosh crucified.
And she has done so by just controlling optics/messaging, lying, backing her allies into ethically dubious situations and then not turning on said allies when they get queasy. By never openly subverting Horde races or revealing her personal agenda(s?), an argument can be made by members of the Horde not privy to her internal monologues, that everything she been doing has been for the Horde's best interest.

You speak sense.

Thank you.

[Niwes]

It's not bad writing. It's not Blizzard's fault if you can't understand that Garrosh and Sylvanas are nowhere near the same.

accept it and move on.

lol.

.... ok.

[Powerogue]

Sylvanas hasn't absorbed the power of any old gods yet.

Yet.

[Maxilian]

Sylvanas is far from clean and, in the eyes of many people, she is going Garrosh route, but she's not there yet.

[Aeula]

It's a rehashed plot, I doubt Blizzard bothered to think of tiny details like logic.

[Deleted]

She has not : murdered inns full of people questioning her actions

She's killed her own people because they wanted to make peace with the Alliance and be reunited with their relatives.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Yes, it's pretty odd Blizzard decided to go with the Horde having internal conflict AGAIN instead of doing it with the Alliance. Especially considering they could have done it easily with Jaina or pissed of Night Elves trying to seize power and commit genocide against the Horde races.

Some meeting of writers decided on this course though... they had to have some compelling reasons.

Or just make it horde vs alliance with no infighting. Not every faction war needs infighting. We all know this shits ending with us all fighting the old gods it's not like horde is gonna join them, so just let us kill each other full stop.

[qwerty123456]

Blizzard also said the the majority of orcs didn't side with Garrosh and yet he was able to take on both the Horde and the Alliance somewhat so having the orcs follow her esp after she melted a bunch of em is either incredibly poor writing or she gave them all tumors that altered their brains and personalities.

[Deleted]

threw away lives fighting over an enemy target she was always planning to bomb into nonexistence

She is the one responsible for the current war and therefore responsible for the deaths on both sides.

attempted the assassination of a racial leader just for disagreeing with her

She tried to kill Vereesa, and wanted to raise her as an undead, so she could be together with her in the Undercity. Then ran off like a screeching kid and decapitated a bear, vowing to never love again.

inadvertently murdered a racial leader via cheating

Garrosh didn't cheat, that's not murder.

forced races out of their homes in the Horde capital because of arbitrary notions of "Strength"

She's raised the dead of her allied races into undeath.

infused horde races with sha/old god juju resulting in monstrosities or spectacular failures needing to be immediately disposed of

She's raising, torturing and brainwashing people.

declared martial law on a race's home territory for their uneasiness with her tactics

She's started a war and burned down the home of the Night Elves. Then she bombed her own city with the plague.

or desecrated religious/spiritual practices of the orcs for her own gains.

She does that every time she raises orcs into undeath. Do you think she has any respect for the orcs traditions?

[MrExcelion]

And there's a slight difference here, many didn't approve of Garrosh ideals of Orc Supremacy, as that would be killing/enslaving their former allies (Trolls, Tauren, etc).

Sylvanas isn't doing that, however, and is simply doing everything ''For the Horde'', instead of <Insert race> Supremacy.

That's the only reason I can think of. They probably don't 100% approve of her methods though..

I think you're absolutely right, but it feels like they haven't driven that distinction home