[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Graeham]

There's quite a lot of players who enjoy grinding in MMO's. Eureka appeals to them quite a bit as a result. It's not the most difficult or engaging content in theory but it's not like there's a lack of content that does provide a challenge.

FFXIV isn't really a game for people who only like very specific things in MMO's, though. It's much more enjoyable if you like indulging in the overall package...and also take the time to play other games as well.

Personally I'm super excited for Octopath Traveler which is out on Friday. That'll sate my urge for a 'classic' single player JRPG.

As far as FFXIV is concerned, I'm excited for the two upcoming seasonal events, namely The Moonfire Faire and The Rising. Then there's the upcoming Live Letter which'll be giving us a preview of Patch 4.4 and elaborate further on the Monster Hunter crossover event which is going to give us a new trial. It'll likely be about a month and then the next Eureka map will go live, which will hopefully have some additional features to make it more in-depth than the original which was hopefully fairly simple as a means of serving as a 'tutorial'.

Either way, between Heaven-on-High and Eureka it'll be very easy to level and gear up every job in preparation for 5.0. A goal which I intend to chip away at over time.

[StrawberryZebra]

Ultimately though, I'd just like to see Square try to innovate a little more. That's their biggest weakness as I see it, just settling into a rut and never really trying to get out of it.

I've been saying this for a while now too. The biggest fault with FF14 is that they've played it too safe. Some of that is understandable, since the original launch was a complete disaster and they want to avoid a repeat of the same mistakes. We're onto our second expansion now, with a third almost certainly on the way, it's a better time than ever to take a couple of risks and see if it pays off. Worst case is they can undo whatever they consider a mistake with an expansion anyway.

Myself, I'm fine with the gear treadmill existing, as long as there's none of this 'raid or die' design philosophy brought into the fray. As long as there are still other paths to having good gear (and Tomestone gear is for the most part fine, I just wish I could get a full set without having to raid, I would be fine doing just weekly lockouts for Tomestones to gear up one patch and Hunts for seals to upgrade the other, repeat over and over).

I've been wondering about this for a while now too, and came to the conclusion that there's a lot of untapped potential for allowing players to keep up with the gear curve from most content. Offering tomestones for most content is an easy, if dull, way but one that would undoubtably be effective.

Why not also allow players to craft a basic set of gear for themselves that they can continually upgrade through out an expansion? That automatically means crafting is a viable way of keeping your gear up to date too. PvP rewards that are equivelent in power to PvE ones is another option. World events that offer a couple of items each spread throughout the year is an option too. Maybe even have rotating events that tie into the story, such as the Kobolds attacking parts of Limsa to gather crystals to summon Titan or something that both keeps the world feeling alive and offers level appropriate gear to anyone who takes part.

Keeping your gear upto date is more important in FF14 than it is for most other MMO's too. Not only is it required for the latest MSQ content, but that MSQ content is also a requirement to unlock further MSQ content that's added in later. If you're wanting even the most casual of players to keep up and complete the MSQ there needs to be multiple viable options to get the gear you're requiring them to have. As much as people like to argue that gear should be hard to acquire, when the expectation is that the players have it already by the time the next story chapter is released then you need to offer them fast and easy ways to catch up. @Faroth may think of that as being instant gratification, I think of it as being a practical step to ensure no one gets left behind.

[Granyala]

Why not also allow players to craft a basic set of gear for themselves that they can continually upgrade through out an expansion?

Keeping your gear upto date is more important in FF14 than it is for most other MMO's too.

You already can craft pretty good gear, when you overmeld it, you are not that far behind tome stone wearers, also you can get your crafted gear instantly, whereas tome gear takes months.

I disagree. MSQ requirements are very, very low all it requires to pass this check is for you to be somewhat active. If you have the latest crafted gear you are in the clear.

[Graeham]

The game already alternates between main patches and catch up patches. Nobody is left behind unless they deliberately go out of their way to avoid tackling content.

[lawow74]

Why not also allow players to craft a basic set of gear for themselves that they can continually upgrade through out an expansion? That automatically means crafting is a viable way of keeping your gear up to date too. PvP rewards that are equivelent in power to PvE ones is another option. World events that offer a couple of items each spread throughout the year is an option too. Maybe even have rotating events that tie into the story, such as the Kobolds attacking parts of Limsa to gather crystals to summon Titan or something that both keeps the world feeling alive and offers level appropriate gear to anyone who takes part.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but a lot of players have this glob of shit between their ears that says if you didn't 'work' for your gear like they did you didn't 'earn' it. Thankfully SE listens a lot less to them than Blizzard did to their elitist jerkoffs once upon a time, and never poisoned this game with gearset bonuses (at endgame levels) to appease them.

Crafting your Relic would be cool, as in using actual crafting and gathering to do the steps. Would be a great way to drain mats out of the economy, too.

I would also have no problem with them using PvP currency to get gear upgrades too, might get more interest in it (though I can hear all the wails and cries of people 'forced to PvP for gear' already...)

On the subject of rewarding events, that is one thing I really miss from GW 2. A reliable spawn schedule of World Bosses. Knowing x boss will spawn in y zone at z times, so if I wanna do it all I have to do is show up. While I can do the Hunt, I don't particularly find it fun. Much like how I have no problem killing NM's in Eureka, it's spawning the bastards I hate.

[Sorrior]

I've been saying this for a while now too. The biggest fault with FF14 is that they've played it too safe. Some of that is understandable, since the original launch was a complete disaster and they want to avoid a repeat of the same mistakes. We're onto our second expansion now, with a third almost certainly on the way, it's a better time than ever to take a couple of risks and see if it pays off. Worst case is they can undo whatever they consider a mistake with an expansion anyway.



I've been wondering about this for a while now too, and came to the conclusion that there's a lot of untapped potential for allowing players to keep up with the gear curve from most content. Offering tomestones for most content is an easy, if dull, way but one that would undoubtably be effective.

Why not also allow players to craft a basic set of gear for themselves that they can continually upgrade through out an expansion? That automatically means crafting is a viable way of keeping your gear up to date too. PvP rewards that are equivelent in power to PvE ones is another option. World events that offer a couple of items each spread throughout the year is an option too. Maybe even have rotating events that tie into the story, such as the Kobolds attacking parts of Limsa to gather crystals to summon Titan or something that both keeps the world feeling alive and offers level appropriate gear to anyone who takes part.

Keeping your gear upto date is more important in FF14 than it is for most other MMO's too. Not only is it required for the latest MSQ content, but that MSQ content is also a requirement to unlock further MSQ content that's added in later. If you're wanting even the most casual of players to keep up and complete the MSQ there needs to be multiple viable options to get the gear you're requiring them to have. As much as people like to argue that gear should be hard to acquire, when the expectation is that the players have it already by the time the next story chapter is released then you need to offer them fast and easy ways to catch up. @Faroth may think of that as being instant gratification, I think of it as being a practical step to ensure no one gets left behind.

I feel like i should mention in 2.0 and 2.1 tomestone, raid AND crafted gear was all the same ilv(ilv 90) and BIS was actually a mix of all 3 routes.

Thing is you started gearing in dungeons

Then used tomestones and relic to get better weapons/gear(i miss the 2.0-2.1 relic chain alot more involved if i recall right). However if you had money you could just buy gear(most accessories were bis IF overmelded so it kept crafters going strong)

Theen you could raid. Raiding and money were fastest buut their was only one raid and at the time it was brutal. However things do change.

Dungeon/tomestone gear took longer to get mind you.

Oh dungeon gear was ilv 60-80 if curious.

Come 2.2 and the second coil raiders had complained and we got an ilv gap. Only 10 ilv mind you so not too bad. But did make me think if wow and i was sad they listened to raiders so much(being able to just swap activities was fun and still could more easily)

Then they releaser savage as cosmetic/titoe only. I had no issues with this at all.

Come heavensward and you have dungeon gear, tomestone gear, raid gear and savage raid gear. Create a 20-30 ilv gap and alot more raiding elitism seemed to crop up then in ARR and i cannot help but feel like it is connected to putting a larger focus on raiding and better gear then anything else going popping up in savage.

And currebtly i am worried they will make ultimate a new raid diffuculty with higher ilv gear next xpac creating a larger player divide and even more focus on raiding.

[Rogalicus]

Myself, I'm fine with the gear treadmill existing, as long as there's none of this 'raid or die' design philosophy brought into the fray.

'Raid or die' design is not about raids being the most rewarding, it's about raids being the only part of content where gear really matters. In that regard FFXIV is more 'raid or die' than WoW after introduction of Mythic+.

[Remilia]

Nice! I got to 71.

I'm going to give it another try to see if I can get any higher. I'll just need a lot of sustaining potions since apparently the only way to survive 71+ is to have them constantly ticking. >_>

I actually didn't use any cause I spent all my fragments on the minion and the emote. I only had exactly 20, lol.

[lawow74]

'Raid or die' design is not about raids being the most rewarding, it's about raids being the only part of content where gear really matters. In that regard FFXIV is more 'raid or die' than WoW after introduction of Mythic+.

Not to me. To me it's about the design philosophy that says if you don't raid you can never, ever, ever have gear anywhere near as good as those who do. Set bonuses were the most defining aspect of that philosophy, changing the way classes played and granting an increase in player power that could make a set bonus many ilvls lower still mathematically better than current gear pieces. And the only way to get them was to raid.

In FF, Savage Raid gear tends to be BiS (mixed with other pieces in some cases), and that's fine. But it's not so far and away better from gear you can get outside of raiding (in most slots, see my complaints about weapons and rings earlier) that it leaves players unable to ever catch up barring an entire new expansion. FF provides many options for acquiring gear/currencies to buy gear, far more than WoW ever did, at least up until the time I quit.

[Granyala]

Eehhhhhhh...the end of the MSQ tends to actually have a pretty high requirement. In this case, Tsukysigsdugsidg whatever requires 335 for normal

Newsflash: 335 four months+ after 360 has been available for tomestones is not high, no matter how you slice it.
MMOs are designed to reward the people that play continuously, if you take a break for half a year you'll have to put up with a (in FF) very mild grind to get you back on track.

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'Raid or die' design is not about raids being the most rewarding, it's about raids being the only part of content where gear really matters. In that regard FFXIV is more 'raid or die' than WoW after introduction of Mythic+.

Raid or die refers to ways of advancing your character, not some arbitrary other definition.
Raid or die means that, unless you raid, you are done with the game at this point.

In WoW you hit that point very early on (less so nowadays), in FF you hit it rather late and the increase that raiding gear brings is modest at best (compared to WoW, where some Mythic geared dude does 2-3 times your damage, lol.

[Eleccybubb]

Newsflash! For the MSQ? No, I don't think that high of a hard gate is reasonable. Any new/returning player is going to hit that and be quite a way off from that point and it's very off-putting. (Hey, didn't we go through this before?)

No. 335 is not high at all.

You can get there in a few days of grinding at most. And with the Lost Allagan (creation) pieces you can get into Sigmascape for 350 gear. Or the new Dungeon for 345 gear. And if your servers economy is cheap you can get a weapon for 400k and a HQ one if you have some spare gil lying around. And if they don't mind a small grind they can get a full left side 335 set from one day in Eureka. Which helps a lot.

Around 350-400 Protean Crystals from Eureka nets you the 335 set. And it syncs you to 300 anyway which is close to what a fresh 70 would be. That's about 100 Anemos crystals at most converted. Maybe 150. So around 5-10 FATES easily.

There are plenty of ways to catch up. A new player has plenty of ways to hit that ilvl mark. It's not hard whatsoever.

I've barely seen a new/returner complain about this in NN or our FCs. Or on Reddit, forums or anywhere else. This is literally a minority issue.

[Rogalicus]

Newsflash: 335 four months+ after 360 has been available for tomestones is not high, no matter how you slice it.

It's higher than what you realistically have at that point, which turns storyline into "watch the cutscene with Asahi, his sister and boxes full of crystals and then come a week later after farming all the available content".

Raid or die refers to ways of advancing your character, not some arbitrary other definition.
Raid or die means that, unless you raid, you are done with the game at this point.

I don't understand where's advancement if you don't need gear for content outside of raids. Eureka downscales you (and uses own leveling system), Centurio Hunts are mostly zergs, Expert roulette is easy even at the minimum itemlevel, HoH also uses own leveling system and own gear system. Unless you have OCD and try to maximize you numbers, you are done there.

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So around 5-10 FATES easily.

You don't get crystals from higher level FATEs and, considering how eveyone prefers to farm northern part, that might take a while.

[Faroth]

@Faroth may think of that as being instant gratification, I think of it as being a practical step to ensure no one gets left behind.

I actually find the idea of upgradeable crafted gear that you keep and progress over time interesting. Though personally I would like to see more ways for crafters to offer their services to players, whether for repairs, upgrades, additions, etc. That's kind of a secondary thought to the idea of having a base gear set you can upgrade, though.

MSQ does pretty good with moving tomestone or drops to quest rewards for those coming in late, though. There aren't as many (still a few) points where you need to upgrade to meet requirements to progress the story, particularly after an expansion is over and the next one is underway. I think it was Snowcloak drops that were moved to quest rewards, for example.

Of the two, though, I think the idea of a crafted set you can update through various methods kind of sounds more interesting than just having drops as quest rewards.

[Eleccybubb]

Exactly, yes. It's silly. I don't know why Tsukiyukidingdong MSQ version isn't just a reasonable item level and then the extreme is high like most(?) primal fights are.

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So I can fully gear out in the lower tomestone category.

And then go raid.

Just so I can finish the MSQ.

I mean, come on. That's a stupid design setup. I don't know how you can defend that outside of, "Well, I got mine."

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Well, I mean, you can't be new/returning in NN and be in SB content, so that would explain that. (And new people in my FC talked about it, so I dunno)

Ways to get into Tsukuyomi without raiding. Or maybe just literally 1 optional 5 minute raid.

Eureka. Left side set can be farmed in a few hours since it requires so few Proteans and you will easily get enough Anemos to convert. Weapon is 335 too. Can use Creation to buy the Belt and Accessories. However you cannot have 2 of the same ring equipped so you would have to at least do Sigmascape 1.0 which is piss easy for a Bolt. Literally 1 raid wing that takes 5 minutes to finish. Or you could farm 375 Mendacity to use a 360 ring. This will get you to 330+

Once you hit 330 you can get 345 gear from the new side story dungeon there which helps a lot.

Only 2 weapons require raiding right now. The Creation and Mendacity one as they always have. You can buy a 350 hq one if you have deep pockets although on Ragnarok which is my other server I just got a 350 HQ bow for 500k and you can also trade it in for 27 tokens that upgrade it to 360 with a bit of Creation, use the 335 from Eureka until you get better, Do Heaven on High for a couple of days until you get the 365 and so on. I got my 365 RDM weapon in 2 days of farming 1-30. At most you could casually do it within a week which is considerably less time than it takes to get a 360 weapon ironically.

There you go. A guide to getting into Tsukuyomi with only 1 instance of raiding which is still optional.

[lawow74]

It's higher than what you realistically have at that point, which turns storyline into "watch the cutscene with Asahi, his sister and boxes full of crystals and then come a week later after farming all the available content".

Pretty much agree, if you were a fresh 70 now and trying to catch up, you'll hit a speedbump. The Anemos items are going to be a PITA to get cos of the bullshit elvl grind you have to do to get crystals of any sort. Now with HoH you can get a weapon fairly easily, and the Tomestones you earn can help buy gear to fill in the gaps (or sub it completely if you no-life it for a while), so there's options, but you're still having to grind. Not that it's such a bad thing in and of itself, but if you don't stay on the gear treadmill to at least the unlimited Tomestone level, you're gonna fall behind very easily during an xpac life cycle.

I don't understand where's advancement if you don't need gear for content outside of raids. Eureka downscales you (and uses own leveling system), Centurio Hunts are mostly zergs, Expert roulette is easy even at the minimum itemlevel, HoH also uses own leveling system and own gear system. Unless you have OCD and try to maximize you numbers, you are done there.

Because players want to feel a sense of progression, of power increase, no matter what source that derives from. I like that there is sync content like HoH and Eureka as it means I can play alt jobs while ignoring gearing concerns, but for my main job I want the best gear I can reasonably get. That's not just an MMO thing, it's an RPG thing and has been for as long as RPG's have existed (at least in video game format; I doubt they were complaining about a lack of epic lewtz after the original D&D session )

It's not that I need a guide (not that I'm bashing your effort here, it's nice) it's just that it's a really stupid design decision. One that actually goes back to the question that was discussed earlier of, "Why are we mixing casual/quest/RP types with raid/dungeon/etc types essentially by force?"

Self-fulfilling prophecy: 'No one plays this game, I quit.' If people aren't participating in content, it quickly snowballs into dead content (see Diadem, Astralagos, etc.)

[Granyala]

It's higher than what you realistically have at that point, which turns storyline into "watch the cutscene with Asahi, his sister and boxes full of crystals and then come a week later after farming all the available content".

Ehh WHAT?
I did not raid and was @ full or near full i360 by the time the patch dropped. Your argument is invalid.

This is NOT balanced around some returnee getting to quest through w/o interruptions. Nor should it be.
Just as you have interruptions in the MSQ during leveling, you can expect interruptions later on due to min ilvl if you aren't active enough.

I already explained why they design that way.

[Rogalicus]

Because players want to feel a sense of progression, of power increase, no matter what source that derives from. I like that there is sync content like HoH and Eureka as it means I can play alt jobs while ignoring gearing concerns, but for my main job I want the best gear I can reasonably get. That's not just an MMO thing, it's an RPG thing and has been for as long as RPG's have existed (at least in video game format; I doubt they were complaining about a lack of epic lewtz after the original D&D session)

It seems we just define progress differently. For me progressing means going through harder and harder content until I hit the wall that's too high for me. I don't farm gear unless I absolutely have to. Farming gear just for higher numbers sounds like what munchkins do and I don't remember any RPG fan who had high opinion of them.

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Ehh WHAT?
I did not raid and was @ full or near full i360 by the time the patch dropped. Your argument is invalid.

This is NOT balanced around some returnee getting to quest through w/o interruptions. Nor should it be.
Just as you have interruptions in the MSQ during leveling, you can expect interruptions later on due to min ilvl if you aren't active enough.

I already explained why they design that way.

I'm glad for you. Your insights into how I should have farmed mendacity for 4 months and had 360 ilvl despite reaching level cap less than a month ago were very interesting and helpful. And I didn't have much trouble with it, just found it very stupid.

[Eleccybubb]

It's weird to see veteran players telling new/returning players that their perspective on the new/returning player experience are wrong.

Nobody is telling you that you are wrong. Don't play that card.

You are free to an opinion. However we went through the experience too. Both of our opinions on the matter are just as valid.

All I see here is people debating their opinions.

[Rogalicus]

It's weird to see veteran players telling new/returning players that their perspective on the new/returning player experience are wrong.

It's especially glaring in FFXIV due to one character policy. If in WoW people still need to play their alts at level cap even if main helps to bypass some of the hurdles, in FFXIV they have no idea about what experience newer players have. Duh, they can spend tomestones to wear full set of gear the moment their fifteenth class reaches level 70.

[Eleccybubb]

As best I can tell most of you didn't actually, though. You were active/raiding all through 4.x up to Tsukiyukiwhaddyaname. So you never hit that wall.

The point is that - for a recent new/returning player - that wall is sudden, seemingly out of place with the rest of the MSQ, and requires that player to basically go out and consume a large chunk of the endgame before finishing the otherwise casual/questing/RP portion that they were working on.

We went through the new player experience. So yes we did when it came to gearing up.

And gearing up now compared to HW or ARR is easy. There is literally nothing hard about it.