[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[-aiko-]

Gotcha, thanks for that info. I do like subjobs, so I kind of wish they would put them in, but oh well.

My second question was physical levels. I remember they existed in the beta (levels independent of your job) that boosted your stats and such, but I'm not sure what became of that or if they still exist.

There's no independent/overall "physical" level in ARR. Each job levels independently and so your current job is your current level.
I believe you are also given attributes to spend as you level up, to boost any stat(s) of your choosing. This is also specific to your job, however, so I don't think there's anything quite like the physical level.

[Buckwald]

I started XIV 1.0 around patch 1.2 which was before the advanced jobs, so I missed the whole physical level thing. But yeah, if you're playing as a level 50 paladin then switch to a level 20 conjurer then your level goes from 50 to 20.

[Calzaeth]

I started XIV 1.0 around patch 1.2 which was before the advanced jobs, so I missed the whole physical level thing. But yeah, if you're playing as a level 50 paladin then switch to a level 20 conjurer then your level goes from 50 to 20.

As if the magitek-mount didn't already sell me... an MMO with a proper job system? Praise Ultros!

[Gallahadd]

The original classes and jobs from 1.0 are in 2.0. The classes had a predetermined role. To get the advanced jobs you needed to be lvl 30 in a main class and lvl 15 in a subclass and do a long class quest:
classes:
Gladiator (sword): tank
Maradur (axe): dps
Lancer (polearm): dps
pugilist (hand): dps
archer (bow): dps
thamaturge (wand/cane): dps
conjurer (wand/cane): healer

job
paladin (sword)
warrior (axe)
Dragoon (polearm)
Monk (hand)
Bard (bow)
Black Mage (wand/cane)
White Mage (wand/cane)

its already been stated publicly that there will be a summoner class/job ready for launch.

aah cool, nice breakdown thanks, shame there's only one tank class I tend to gravitate more towards tanks, but I really wanted to be a Monk, because I also love unarmed fighters

LOVE the sound of the advanced job stuff though, like the system from Tactics, which I LOVED, mixed with a dash of Ragnarok online, which was my first serious MMO, what more could I ask for?... oh yeah... the game to be out and playable in the UK

[Buckwald]

aah cool, nice breakdown thanks, shame there's only one tank class I tend to gravitate more towards tanks, but I really wanted to be a Monk, because I also love unarmed fighters

LOVE the sound of the advanced job stuff though, like the system from Tactics, which I LOVED, mixed with a dash of Ragnarok online, which was my first serious MMO, what more could I ask for?... oh yeah... the game to be out and playable in the UK

some link shells used a marauder tank with a lot of the gladiator skills for aggro and self heals. Honestly each melee class should have a tank option. But that's just my opinion.

[HAcoreRD]

they're also adding Summoner, which was my main in FFXI. Thank you, Square, you sold me

[Seegtease]

There's no independent/overall "physical" level in ARR. Each job levels independently and so your current job is your current level.
I believe you are also given attributes to spend as you level up, to boost any stat(s) of your choosing. This is also specific to your job, however, so I don't think there's anything quite like the physical level.

So, they scrapped it. I remember having stat boosts in the beta that were independent of your job (that you spent points as you leveled up). I wonder why they dropped it...

[Edge-]

So, they scrapped it. I remember having stat boosts in the beta that were independent of your job (that you spent points as you leveled up). I wonder why they dropped it...

Because it defeated the purpose of the job system. It encouraged specializing in order to maximize performance, which mean you dumped all your points towards whatever attribute was used by the job you wanted. So you could play a few jobs well, but it hurt all your other jobs performance. It kinda defeated the point of having a fluid class system.

[Ichy]

they're also adding Summoner, which was my main in FFXI. Thank you, Square, you sold me

I'm also pritty sold as is, just need them to add Samurai back in and I'll be set.

[zaxlor]

Because it defeated the purpose of the job system. It encouraged specializing in order to maximize performance, which mean you dumped all your points towards whatever attribute was used by the job you wanted. So you could play a few jobs well, but it hurt all your other jobs performance. It kinda defeated the point of having a fluid class system.

The thing that worries me with job level = your level, is what happens when you swap jobs? Okay, i've hit level 50 as a Lancer. Now I want to level up my Pugilist, but i'm back down to level 1! Can I still complete level 50 dungeons like this? Do the monsters in the high level zones scale to my class level? If not, are there seven unique questing zones to allow each job to experience different content? If not, are all the quests repeatable in the same way The Secret World handles things?

I think i'd prefer that whatever your highest level job is, that's your physical level. So i've leveled Lancer to 50, i'm level 50. I swap to a low level job and i'd not loose any hp/magic/defence, but maybe a few attack stats so that questing would be harder but not impossible.

I suppose if you level the DPS jobs first then swap back to the healing or tank jobs it'd not be so bad since everyone wants the help of jobs like that at any level.

Maybe they want the advanced jobs to be very exclusive and that's the games version of prestige, but will raids and dungeons be balanced around that? What if you NEED to have a Paladin for x/y/z boss because of certain skills or stats bonuses they have, but no-one wants to re-level another job through the same content they've already completed.

If they only allow skills to become unlocked via the advanced jobs from each class and don't give NEW skills it might work out, but either way it'll be interesting. I played in the beta for FF14 and even though it was grindy as hell, it was quite enjoyable. I liked the class system, I loved the style and I enjoyed the combat. One of the biggest things that put me off though, was the grind and if they're only re-introducing this with the way the advanced classes will work (having to re-completed older content "just because", in order to pad out the game), they're going to fail again, imo.

[Ichy]

The thing that worries me with job level = your level, is what happens when you swap jobs? Okay, i've hit level 50 as a Lancer. Now I want to level up my Pugilist, but i'm back down to level 1! Can I still complete level 50 dungeons like this? Do the monsters in the high level zones scale to my class level? If not, are there seven unique questing zones to allow each job to experience different content? If not, are all the quests repeatable in the same way The Secret World handles things?

I think i'd prefer that whatever your highest level job is, that's your physical level. So i've leveled Lancer to 50, i'm level 50. I swap to a low level job and i'd not loose any hp/magic/defence, but maybe a few attack stats so that questing would be harder but not impossible.

I suppose if you level the DPS jobs first then swap back to the healing or tank jobs it'd not be so bad since everyone wants the help of jobs like that at any level.

Maybe they want the advanced jobs to be very exclusive and that's the games version of prestige, but will raids and dungeons be balanced around that? What if you NEED to have a Paladin for x/y/z boss because of certain skills or stats bonuses they have, but no-one wants to re-level another job through the same content they've already completed.

If they only allow skills to become unlocked via the advanced jobs from each class and don't give NEW skills it might work out, but either way it'll be interesting. I played in the beta for FF14 and even though it was grindy as hell, it was quite enjoyable. I liked the class system, I loved the style and I enjoyed the combat. One of the biggest things that put me off though, was the grind and if they're only re-introducing this with the way the advanced classes will work (having to re-completed older content "just because", in order to pad out the game), they're going to fail again, imo.

You seem to miss understand that FF job system. When you switch to a different job, its like switching to an alt in wow/rift/w-e mmo you choose. If your not of sufficient level then no, you cant do that dungeons. I'm not sure how 2.0 will handle leveling, but 1.0 used a "guild levy" system, and quests were more or less for the main story.

On paper the physical level thing works... in practice not so much. and as another poster said, it "promoted specializing for performance, which defeated the purpose of the Armory system".

the Advanced Jobs were brought BACK into the game because of how much the player blase loved them in XI. 1.0 was trying to reinvent the wheel, with to many things. From what I saw in 1.0 (as 2.0 has an NDA in effect and I didn't make the first two phases - think two has started) you didn't ever need x class because it offered x/y/z for a specific boss encounter.

Leveling Advanced jobs did unlock job specific abilities, like Jump for Dragoon. You'r complaining about re grinding completed content yet if you ask any one here that played XI they couldn't tell you how many hours/days/weeks spent re grinding in areas like Yhotunga or Volkrum Dunes while leveling a new Job. Also, if you ever created an alt in any other mmo, guess what you had to do in order to level it up... re grind completed content. The concept of leveling something other than your "main" is the same, only difference between FF and other games is how the job(class) system is handled, which thus determines how the leveling will be handled.

[-aiko-]

The thing that worries me with job level = your level, is what happens when you swap jobs? Okay, i've hit level 50 as a Lancer. Now I want to level up my Pugilist, but i'm back down to level 1! Can I still complete level 50 dungeons like this? Do the monsters in the high level zones scale to my class level? If not, are there seven unique questing zones to allow each job to experience different content? If not, are all the quests repeatable in the same way The Secret World handles things?

< snipped; see the NDA here and follow them please >

[zaxlor]

< snipped because of quoted NDA post >

[Gallahadd]

some link shells used a marauder tank with a lot of the gladiator skills for aggro and self heals. Honestly each melee class should have a tank option. But that's just my opinion.

I would 100% agree with this opinion , one of the things I like about Tactics was using skills from a variety of jobs to create an unkillable god (for instance, Monk, with Ninja's Dual Wield and Samurai's Blade Grasp: insane damage, you hit twice and block 97% of melee attacks) so the ability to construct something along those lines for FFXIV would be epiccly win.

I'm also pritty sold as is, just need them to add Samurai back in and I'll be set.

Or that, if they add Samurai I'd be happy as well , maybe a 2h tank style class (I'm assuming Gladiator is Sword and Board tanking).

Also, is it possible to see any of the class/job skills, or are they still covered by the NDA?

[-aiko-]

Hmm not sure where any NDA was breached?

- being selected to the beta: I'm not in beta, didn't say so
- naming others who have been selected to the beta: Don't know anyone in beta, didn't say so
- links to leaked beta content: No linked content
- information about the game not released by the developer first: We knew about dungeons from alpha gameplay videos, and know about the hunting log from the media (not under NDA). See PA article
- veiled comments that could be construed as "beta information": Maybe I worded it poorly? It was all information we knew though.

[Seegtease]

You seem to miss understand that FF job system. When you switch to a different job, its like switching to an alt in wow/rift/w-e mmo you choose. If your not of sufficient level then no, you cant do that dungeons. I'm not sure how 2.0 will handle leveling, but 1.0 used a "guild levy" system, and quests were more or less for the main story.

In the videos I've seen (I think one linked earlier in the thread), it seemed to have regular WoW-like quests. If quests truly DO end up being used for leveling, then we would have a problem with the job system. In FFXI, you didn't use quests for leveling, you got into parties and killed stuff. You could change jobs and do this over and over. In something like WoW, you complete quests to level. You can only do this once, and if you want to level a new class, you need to make a new character, thus making the quests available.

So in a game where job changing is quick and easy and doesn't require an alt, I'm wondering how they will handle it if they choose to use quest-based leveling.

[Buckwald]

There are multiple things that you can use to level in FFXIV I'll list them here:

Quests: standard, you know them. There are class quests, main story quests and side quests.
Levequests: Repeatable quests. Normally they are kill X number of Y monsters and get rewarded with XP, Gil and items. You get a % of increased rewards based on the difficulty of the base level of the quest. If the levequest is a lvl 15 levequest and you set the difficulty to +1 or +2 you get 10%/20% increased XP and Gil. These are based on level. A new set opens every 5 levels. 5-9 is a set, 10-14 is a set, 15-19 is a set, etc etc. You have a limited amount of allowances (max 99) and they recharge on a timed cycle. Every 8 hours you get 3 more allowances. If you completely fail a leve, it takes 1 additional allowance to restart it. To me, that's insanely slow and I hope they fix it.

Now, there are some new things or slight changes in FFXIV ARR:
Guildleves: Similar to Levequests but given by the guild of your current class (IE Lancer, Archer, Leather-worker). These were removed in 1.0 and I don't know if they are coming back in ARR.
Grand Company Quests: Similar to Levequests but given by the Grand Company you are in (Twin Adders, Immortal Flames, Maelstrom). You get XP, guild marks to purchase company gear and items. You can only choose 1 Grand Company which is independent from your class, race, or starting city. I started in Girdania but chose the Immortal Flames of Ul'Dah in 1.0.
Behests: These were a system of skirmishes with the empire set at specific encampments. You could support them by gathering or crafting X number of Y items and turning them in for XP, Gil and rewards OR by fending off invasions from the empire.
Free Company Quests: Free Companies are player made Grand Companies. They are independent from link-shells, and you can embark on quests and leves through them. But, no other information has been released about them.
Hunting Log: This has been shown in videos and from my understanding, you get a bonus of XP for completing logs. I don't know if the list is the same for all classes or independent of class. (see more: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ng-Log-ARR-2.0)


Outside of "quests" there are dungeons and XP Parties that make leveling other classes easier and fun. But, with that said, the focus isn't to have all 19 classes to level 50 in 3 months.

[Boomcats]

Hey Buck, in FFXI there was literally TOO much to do at 75. BCNM, ENM, merits, sky, sea, NM camping, HNM. Was FFXIV like that, or was it more about leveling?

For reference, I loved FFXI endgame - pinnacle of an MMO for me (at least as a NIN tank)

[Buckwald]

Hey Buck, in FFXI there was literally TOO much to do at 75. BCNM, ENM, merits, sky, sea, NM camping, HNM. Was FFXIV like that, or was it more about leveling?

For reference, I loved FFXI endgame - pinnacle of an MMO for me (at least as a NIN tank)

Honestly, I didn't do much endgame in XIV, I had been playing about 4 other games at the time. There were raids: Moogle, Ifrit and Garuda. There were Behests and some other such things. The hardest thing, for me, was finishing the job quests. It required new players to run dungeons that no one wanted to run and the boss mechanics made it almost impossible to recover from a wipe.

You can spend a majority of your time leveling each class because they are all independent of each other. Once you get all those classes to 50 there were just raids. But, keep in mind there are going to be at least 19 base classes at the launch of XIV, all with different class quests. I'll even take it a step further and throw the advanced jobs out there:

Disciples of War
Archer - Bow and Arrow
Gladiator - Swords and Shield
Lancer - Spears and Lances
Marauder - Two-handed axes
Pugilist - Claws and metal knuckles

Disciples of Magic
Conjurer - Wands
Thaumaturge - Staves
Arcanist - Books (New to ARR) (confirmed: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ist#post981982)

Disciples of Hand
Alchemist - Alembics
Armorer - Raising Hammers
Blacksmith - Cross-pein Hammers
Carpenter - Handsaws
Culinarian - Skillets
Goldsmith - Chaser Hammers
Leatherworker - Headknives
Weaver - Needles

Disciples of Land
Botanist - Hatchets
Fisher - Fishing Rods
Miner - Pickaxes

Advanced Jobs
Bard - Bow and Arrow (requires Archer lvl 30+, Conjurer lvl 15+)
Paladin - Swords and Shields (Gladiator lvl 30+, Conjurer lvl 15+)
Dragoon - Spears and Lances (Lancer lvl 30+, Pugilist lvl 15+)
Warrior - Two-handed axes (Marauder lvl 30+, Gladiator lvl 15+)
Monk - Claws and metal Knuckles (Pugilist lvl 30+, Lancer lvl 15+)
White Mage - Wands (Conjurer lvl 30+, Gladiator lvl 15+)
Black Mage - Staves (Thaumaturge lvl 30+, Pugilist lvl 15+)
Summoner - Books (Arcanist lvl 30+, ??)

All of those classes should have class quests up to at least level 30 and each advanced job should have an epic quest to obtain the skills and iconic class gear. Outside of a public beta or a lift of the NDA, I could be wrong. I don't even know what's implemented fully in the beta except for what's on the road map and on the official FFXIV boards.

So, with all of those classes, there is more than enough to fill your plate before really worrying about the endgame. From my experience, it works against you to pick one class and just concentrate on it. Having a multitude of them is what really matters. If you wanted that lance from Ifrit, but the group needed a monk, you'd go as a monk and most of the time it was open rolls/EPGP/DKP for gear.

[Viertel]

Because it defeated the purpose of the job system. It encouraged specializing in order to maximize performance, which mean you dumped all your points towards whatever attribute was used by the job you wanted. So you could play a few jobs well, but it hurt all your other jobs performance. It kinda defeated the point of having a fluid class system.

That and the fact that the stats were fucking worthless. Seriously. You needed, in the beginning, almost 143 STR increase to see a single point of attack. Or worse, almost 200 of MND (or PIE back then) to see any change in healing through a parser.

It was really terrible. FFXI's formulas are ridiculous as it is in terms of being needlessly complex to do simple tasks (weaponskill damage is like looking at a nest menu from hell but in formula form), but FFXIV's were just outright broken.

All of those classes should have class quests up to at least level 30 and each advanced job should have an epic quest to obtain the skills and iconic class gear. Outside of a public beta or a lift of the NDA, I could be wrong. I don't even know what's implemented fully in the beta except for what's on the road map and on the official FFXIV boards.

So, with all of those classes, there is more than enough to fill your plate before really worrying about the endgame. From my experience, it works against you to pick one class and just concentrate on it. Having a multitude of them is what really matters. If you wanted that lance from Ifrit, but the group needed a monk, you'd go as a monk and most of the time it was open rolls/EPGP/DKP for gear.

That sounds about right (did they ever add AF gear to 1.0 or was it held off for 2.0?) and then there's also the relic weapons for each archetype.

Hey Buck, in FFXI there was literally TOO much to do at 75. BCNM, ENM, merits, sky, sea, NM camping, HNM. Was FFXIV like that, or was it more about leveling?

For reference, I loved FFXI endgame - pinnacle of an MMO for me (at least as a NIN tank)

Did you quit before WotG or ToAU by any chance? Because people think other MMOS (*cough*) give you a lot to do with daily quests but compare it to FFXI's resume @ 75 (so not including anything more recent) there's no comparison:

BCNM, ANNM, ENM (instanced battlefields)
Meritpos
Outdoor HNMs (land kings, ToAU 3 + Beastmen HNMs) and regular NMs (popped or camped)
Dynamis (and later Dream-Dynamis)
Sky farming
Sea farming
Limbus
Nyzul Isle
Salvage
Zeni VNMs

And I'm pretty sure I've forgotten 2-3 things. Most of this was added over the course of 03' to 08' and then there's all the post 75 crap (and 2.0 versions of some 75 events).

It sounds great, and it usually is, but FFXI also has the problem of there's so much to do that it causes overload in a lot of people and burns them out trying to play catchup. Honestly, I'd be happy if FFXIV can find a balance between the two extremes (FFXI and WoW) of having way too much and having virtually nothing to do outside of one event.

Plus, despite what a lot of "Hardcore Gamer" wannabes will say, FFXI showed that you can have successful events with a single part setup at times that are challenging as hell and still fun.