[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm also astounded that there are no Warrior nerfs in there. It's rare that an MMO lets a class be both fun and strong at the same time.

I mean, WAR is only really broken in 4 man content tbh. Maybe not even that, you could argue it is a bit above GNB and PLD, it's just DRK that is really dog shit in dungeons (to the point where I feel like trolling doing roulettes with it over WAR) for large pulls, they all work well enough in raids though as far as I heard.

They also buffed all DPS instead of nerfing RPR.

[Jazzhands]

I've always been of the opinion that the Range was less of an issue than it's clunky usability. To get it on a target of choice you either need to macro it, which creates its own set of issues, or switch target. Either way I've found using it takes me out of the flow of gameplay for a couple of seconds which has never felt great when it's one of your big cooldowns.

I'm also astounded that there are no Warrior nerfs in there. It's rare that an MMO lets a class be both fun and strong at the same time.

SE doesn't really balance around dungeons, which is the only place they're OP. With the patch, they're now technically the worst tank for Savage content.

They also only do small changes in patches like this, they've already said more big changes are coming in 6.1 so there's always a chance, but given warriors status in hard content I'm not expecting much change.

[Polix]

This. It would be pretty difficult for them consoleros to deal with mods.
Personally, I think the UI is mostly fine. It does the job w/o getting in the way of things and I always enjoy being able to log in and play on patch day w/o worrying about which addons may be broken.

That's fair, but also, mods are currently being deployed for Skyrim on console and while I know it's not exactly a 1:1 comparison, I think it's grounds for "this could work."

[dope_danny]

https://twitter.com/maxheightfemroe/...00909067124736
Welp Odin started spawning on the Straya' servers for the first time so people could see him without his model getting replaced by whoever got the last killing blow. It makes the Urths Font one to reaffirm the canon that we fight an old duskwright dude possesed by a Eureka Weapon. Wonder if we will ever get his backstory or if leaving him as some blank none WoL badass that beat a primal and became one is his deal or if he was merely a baldesion scholar that escaped eureka?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm also astounded that there are no Warrior nerfs in there. It's rare that an MMO lets a class be both fun and strong at the same time.

One of the merits of a job system: When everyone can be that job, nobody can say other players are getting preferential treatment. You just play the one thats the most fun.

[Ghost of Cow]

https://www.halfords.com/bikes/hybri...es-566544.html

wat?

One of the merits of a job system: When everyone can be that job, nobody can say other players are getting preferential treatment. You just play the one thats the most fun.

Well, you have to level those jobs just like any other game if you're going to play them. Not to mention time/resources on gearing them at max level. So people get just as invested in the job they main.

[Maljinwo]

I don't honestly know anything about the Limsan dialect or language. According to Roegadyn naming conventions, Merlwyb apparently means "Sea Woman." Weirdly, Merlwyb's father, Bloefhis Bloefhiswyn, would be named "Blue Fish, daughter of Blue Fish?"

Admiral Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn's name breaks down as Merl (sea)
+ wyb (woman), Bloe (blue)+ flus (fish) + wyn (daughter~,
roughly translating to "Sea Wife, daughter of Blue Fish."

Though Sea Wolf names can be mystifying at a glance to the
observer, they follow clear patterns rooted in the old
Roegadyn tongue. Given names are a compound:, of two words, the
first an adjective or verb, and the second a noun. In the case of
females, the second word is almost invariably chosen among
the traditional set of Swys (Sister), Thota (Daughter), Wyda
(Willow), Geim Oewel), Wyb (Woman), Rael (Doe), Lona
(Gatherer), and Bhyda (Bride). Sea Wolf surnames are patronymics: to the name of one's father is the suffix -syn (meaning
"son") or ·wyn ("daughter")

From Encyclopedia Eorzea

[Yarathir]

I've always been of the opinion that the Range was less of an issue than it's clunky usability. To get it on a target of choice you either need to macro it, which creates its own set of issues, or switch target. Either way I've found using it takes me out of the flow of gameplay for a couple of seconds which has never felt great when it's one of your big cooldowns.

I'm also astounded that there are no Warrior nerfs in there. It's rare that an MMO lets a class be both fun and strong at the same time.

Yeah, the usability is the biggest issue with it. I made a macro for it to put it on a focus target (which I assign before the fight starts) but it still is hard to weave because it sometimes requires multiple button presses.

I love the idea and even the animation, but it's one of the clunkiest abilities I've seen in XIV.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Yeah I agree. We went from using alchemy to bring back the dead to using alchemy to add some flavor to rations that are no longer needed. Kinda a waste of time and talent.

The sad part is that it undermines the cooking part as well, because they obviously can't ham it up with your cullinary skills and achievments, since the quest needs to work for alchemist as well. You are essentially just degraded to 3rd rate supplier of materials. Even if the old quests were a pain in the ass, they still felt alot better from a story PoV.

Also I hate how every villain comes around at the end; always. For once I want the antagonist to actually suffer some proper punishement, like that Lalafell twat with the cowboy hat, he deserved some actual punishment for being such an ass.

[Ghost of Cow]

The sad part is that it undermines the cooking part as well, because they obviously can't ham it up with your cullinary skills and achievments, since the quest needs to work for alchemist as well. You are essentially just degraded to 3rd rate supplier of materials. Even if the old quests were a pain in the ass, they still felt alot better from a story PoV.

Also I hate how every villain comes around at the end; always. For once I want the antagonist to actually suffer some proper punishement, like that Lalafell twat with the cowboy hat, he deserved some actual punishment for being such an ass.

Yeah, but I feel like they were just running thin on the little mini-stories to tell for each and every job.

Condensing them to role quests and facets feels like the game lost a little something, but really your story as a fledgling Lancer who learns how to be a Dragoon and all that is pretty much over by that time.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

We went from getting 16 job questlines to just 8. Quality > quantity is not at play here as the quality of the post SB questlines is still the same, so you're paying the same amount of money for straight up less content. The devs didn't need to make the questlines tied to a job, so long as we still got content.

[Ghost of Cow]

We went from getting 16 job questlines to just 8. Quality > quantity is not at play here as the quality of the post SB questlines is still the same, so you're paying the same amount of money for straight up less content. The devs didn't need to make the questlines tied to a job, so long as we still got content.

I guess it's technically less, but I don't really "feel" that loss, nor do I know what the alternative is. 16 questlines not tied to jobs, so you just have to do all of them?

I'm ok with the role quests as they are, if only because I feel like the individual stories of each job were wrapped up fairly nicely. Having new types of quests that are more relevant to current events each expansion seems appropriate to me.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I guess it's technically less, but I don't really "feel" that loss, nor do I know what the alternative is. 16 questlines not tied to jobs, so you just have to do all of them?

Could just be optional questlines like Hildibrand, nothing mandatory.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well my post was about DoH/DoL and their quests. For DoW and DoM I think the consolidated quests actually work well enough as they have enough in common. The same can sadly not be said for crafting jobs. They either need to acknowledge that of the few people that max crafting jobs, most are omni crafters or they should make the hand ins more generic like with IRP. In ShB the quests also worked alot better tbh. As a LTW restoring anitques made some sense, same for WVR and CRP, but crafting the contraption in EW is just straight up nonsense and has nothing to do with what the jobs do. The only story that somewhat fit was the ALC/CUL quest if you are a CUL (and even then it treats you like an alchemist instead of someone who can actually cook) and GSM/ARM/BSM if you are a GSM. I think the FSH quest actually the best of all of them though, because there was no faux antagonist and they used the job and the framework well.

Edit: Also thank god for my army of retainers.. getting all those monster drops myself would have been a nightmare while leveling ALC. All that mousse flesh and lunar tender blossom stuff..

[Poppincaps]

We went from getting 16 job questlines to just 8. Quality > quantity is not at play here as the quality of the post SB questlines is still the same, so you're paying the same amount of money for straight up less content. The devs didn't need to make the questlines tied to a job, so long as we still got content.

There was also more MSQ content. You can't just compare things 1 to 1, you have to look at the overall package. The cutscenes were far longer in Endwalker than even in Shadowbringers. There were also way more side quests in each of the zones for both ShB and Endwalker compared to SB. Additionally, the ShB role quests spun off into the Void Questline.

Now you can disagree with where they've placed their resources, but say that it's less content seems disingenuous. Someone even wrote up a google doc of how many cutscenes there are in each expansion and Endwalker have over double the total cutscenes of the 4.0 MSQ with SB having 11 hours and 32 minutes of cutscenes and Endwalker having 23 hours and 37 minutes of cutscenes. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1827500247

[dope_danny]

wat?



Well, you have to level those jobs just like any other game if you're going to play them. Not to mention time/resources on gearing them at max level. So people get just as invested in the job they main.

I have no idea what that was, fixed that.

[StrawberryZebra]

With the patch, they're now technically the worst tank for Savage content.

"Worst", as always, meaning lowest DPS. Which is fine - I've long since come to terms with how FF14 works.

As someone who pugs Savage, I'd much rather have a Warrior than any other tank due to their simplicity. It doesn't matter too much if they screw up with buff windows because they don't benefit from them as much as other tanks do. Their playstyle is simple, intuitive and their mobilty gives them more situational error correction options. Unlike it's equivelents, Shake it Off is instant and unconditional. Nascent Glint does a lot of healing when put onto another tank which eases the burden on healers. Holmgang is extremely good on some fights where its cooldown can be abused.

I'll be the first to admit that they drop off in more organised groups. But in unorganised groups, Warriors are still going to be my prefered choice because they're far less likely to screw up and have reliable opportunites to contribute more than just damage to a group. They're a gaurenteed minimum level of performance regardless of circumstance and while they might not peak as high as the other tanks they don't drop as low either.

That kind of consistency is a strength that never really gets taken into account when discussing class balance.

[Jazzhands]

"Worst", as always, meaning lowest DPS. Which is fine - I've long since come to terms with how FF14 works.

As someone who pugs Savage, I'd much rather have a Warrior than any other tank due to their simplicity. It doesn't matter too much if they screw up with buff windows because they don't benefit from them as much as other tanks do. Their playstyle is simple, intuitive and their mobilty gives them more situational error correction options. Unlike it's equivelents, Shake it Off is instant and unconditional. Nascent Glint does a lot of healing when put onto another tank which eases the burden on healers. Holmgang is extremely good on some fights where its cooldown can be abused.

I'll be the first to admit that they drop off in more organised groups. But in unorganised groups, Warriors are still going to be my prefered choice because they're far less likely to screw up and have reliable opportunites to contribute more than just damage to a group. They're a gaurenteed minimum level of performance regardless of circumstance and while they might not peak as high as the other tanks they don't drop as low either.

That kind of consistency is a strength that never really gets taken into account when discussing class balance.

That why I said technically. The way the game is balanced right now is actually really good, especially tanks, each one now has a solid niche to fill depending on how good your group is. DPS goes DRK>GNB>PAL>WAR while mitigation/sustain is WAR>PAL>GNB>DRK. This gives you a perfect slider for offense vs defense.

People usually don't talk about minimum performance when talking balance because that's not really what balance is about, you aren't wrong that they have a higher chance to not suck because the class is simple and that's definitely a perk, but that doesn't really mean much when trying to decide what to balance about them, you shouldn't balance a class around people who aren't playing it correctly, it just makes the actual players suffer and the bad players will hardly notice the change.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I've always been of the opinion that the Range was less of an issue than it's clunky usability. To get it on a target of choice you either need to macro it, which creates its own set of issues, or switch target. Either way I've found using it takes me out of the flow of gameplay for a couple of seconds which has never felt great when it's one of your big cooldowns.

I'm also astounded that there are no Warrior nerfs in there. It's rare that an MMO lets a class be both fun and strong at the same time.

It's rare for Square to actually nerf any class, as they prefer to bring other classes up instead. Nerfs make people feel bad. Buffs make people feel good. If your class doesn't get a buff, you don't feel good or excited, but at least you don't feel mad and annoyed. It's a lesson more MMO companies could learn from when doing class balancing.

[StrawberryZebra]

People usually don't talk about minimum performance when talking balance because that's not really what balance is about, you aren't wrong that they have a higher chance to not suck because the class is simple and that's definitely a perk, but that doesn't really mean much when trying to decide what to balance about them, you shouldn't balance a class around people who aren't playing it correctly, it just makes the actual players suffer and the bad players will hardly notice the change.

We only talk about maximum performance when talking about balance. That invariably means focusing on that top 0.1% of players who are at peak performance.

Most players aren't going to perform anywhere close to that peak. Almost to the point at which I'd say that the "best" jobs are the ones with the best median performance. Warrior fits in here for me because an average Warrior is going to add more to your group than an average Gunbreaker. So does Red Mage and Dancer - Jobs that have easy execution and bring tools outside of raw DPS that help error correct. Those tools are irrelevent for the best of the best players but they can be make or break for an average group.

Discussions of "best" are always framed from the perspective of the highest performing players. The only metric they care about is DPS. That doesn't always translate well for the rest of us, but it gets latched on to by players for who it's not applicable for. When you reframe it around what an average player is like you end up with a very different looking list of what's good and bad.

I don't think we should always balance around the average player, but I think there are more interesting discussions to be had from that view point as opposed to a simple list of which jobs do the most DPS.

[xmirrors]

I'm surprised at how well Endwalker has maintained its insane metacritic user score (9.5). I was expecting some drop-off after the initial hype and honeymoon phase but it holds. The strong savage raid tier probably helped! Very, very interested in what 6.1 is going to set up because it will be difficult to top Shadowbringers and Endwalker. Realistically, I think we'll have a few modest patches and a fairly modest 7.0 before they start swinging again.