[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Leonard McCoy]

Yeah I know. Its why I couldn't pick Destroy no matter how much I actually wanted to destroy the Reapers. I just couldn't destroy the Geth after leading them to evolve and find peace with their mortal enemy. I picked Blue for my Shepard though I didn't really object to green. I just had more cool ways to think up how Shepard could use the Reapers if he controlled them rather then them just doing their own thing with synthesis. For example I have my reapers acting as school buses for little children among other silly things.

Yea I went blue shep as well. I always thought in my head that would be the best out come. Like if your shep was benevolent he could use the reapers as a powerful tool to make life better in the galaxy. I guess that was the "happy" ending then.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 09:33 PM ----------

Just like you did a few posts ago.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 09:32 PM ----------



Actually, yes, as the code had nothing to do with defeating Sovereign.

That's debatable. Without the code, the reapers come through and at that point amid a invasion of reapers the prospects of defeating sovereign alone are pretty grim especially without the combined forces of the other races and blah blah etc etc. Sovereign would still be alive and the game would be lost if it wasn't for the code.

[leafs43]

I'll ask you again then, since I appear to be dense. Could Shepard have defeated Sovereign without the help of Vigil?

That has nothing to do with Vigil being a deus ex machina.


And maybe that's your problem.

[Sj]

I understand these conversations can get heated (especially with the deep themes of this game), but please post constructively and without resorting to insults and personal attacks. Keep discussion on-topic.

[Leonard McCoy]

That has nothing to do with Vigil being a deus ex machina.


And maybe that's your problem.

It absolutely does. Vigil presents the answer to a problem that you had no idea existed before. OR the catalyst/starchild isn't a deus ex machina. Your pick homeslice.

[Landin55]

Now you're setting up strawman arguments.


So ya, if you can;t argue on merits, don't argue at all.

How was that a strawman? Please.... go ahead.

[Grizzly Willy]

That has nothing to do with Vigil being a deus ex machina.


And maybe that's your problem.

Then why is Starchild a Deus Ex Machina?

[Leonard McCoy]

How was that a strawman? Please.... go ahead.

It wasn't. Just like the term "objective" and "deus ex machina" he doesn't really know what that means and is just making up words and then has the nerve to ask if any of us have taken an english class before.

[leafs43]

It absolutely does. Vigil presents the answer to a problem that you had no idea existed before. OR the citadel isn't a deus ex machina. Your pick homeslice.

Let me word this in a way that you can understand, because you are obviously confused.



Does Vigil end the conflict in ME1? Yes or no

Does the catalyst/star kid end the conflict in ME3? Yes or no.





If you answer yes to both, both are deus ex machinas. If you answer no, to both, neither are deus ex machinas. If one is yes and one is no, they are completely different plot devices.

[Leonard McCoy]

Let me word this in a way that you can understand, because you are obviously confused.



Does Vigil end the conflict in ME1? Yes or no

Does the catalyst/star kid end the conflict in ME3? Yes or no.





If you answer yes to both, both are deus ex machinas. If you answer no, to both, neither are deus ex machinas. If one is yes and one is no, they are completely different plot devices.

My answer is no to both but I'm not the one with the confusion. In both cases Shepard is the one that ends the conflict. Your the one with the apparent confusion and also lack of understanding about various plot devices in the game and in literature as a whole.

[rhorle]

Actually, yes, as the code had nothing to do with defeating Sovereign.

Shepard would never have found or have been able to use the Conduit with out Vigil. Vigil also gives Shepard a program that will enable some control over the Citadel's systems. You can't defeat Sovereign if you never show up.

[leafs43]

My answer is no to both but I'm not the one with the confusion. In both cases Shepard is the one that ends the conflict. Your the one with the apparent confusion and also lack of understanding about various plot devices in the game and in literature as a whole.

The catalyst gives you the options that resolve the conflict and roll the credits. And he also limits your options depending on EMS, so he does in fact hold the resolution in his hands.


So basically you are being intellectually dishonest.

[Leonard McCoy]

The catalyst gives you the options that resolve the conflict and roll the credits. And he also limits your options depending on EMS, so he does in fact hold the resolution in his hands.


So basically you are being intellectually dishonest.

Vigil gives you the option of returning to the citadel (in time) and resolving the conflict with saren and roll the credits. Not meeting vigil limits your ability to do thism so he does in fact hold the resolution in his hands.

So basically your are being intellectually dishonest when you ignore vigil as a deus ex machina.

[Grizzly Willy]

The catalyst gives you the options that resolve the conflict and roll the credits. And he also limits your options depending on EMS, so he does in fact hold the resolution in his hands.


So basically you are being intellectually dishonest.

He doesn't limit your options. You limit your option because the Crucible's effectiveness is determined by the amount of work done on it and the amount of forces you have defending it. If you don't get a high enough EMS it will be a less effective device and will take more damage while getting it to the Citadel.

[leafs43]

Vigil gives you the option of returning to the citadel and resolving the conflict with saren and roll the credits. Not meeting vigil limits your ability to do thism so he does in fact hold the resolution in his hands.

So basically your are being intellectually dishonest when you ignore vigil as a deus ex machina.

You cannot finish the game by not going to the citadel. Just like you cannot finish the game by sitting around on the citadel dance floor.


Your argument is terrible.

[Nerraw]

I'm gonna take a break from this thread a couple of days... Have fun with Reckoning tomorrow, guys!

[Leonard McCoy]

You cannot finish the game by not going to the citadel. Just like you cannot finish the game by sitting around on the citadel dance floor.


Your argument is terrible.

You cannot finish the game by not going to see vigil either. It's not my argument that's terrible, I'm just applying your logic to both games.

[leafs43]

You cannot finish the game by not going to see vigil either. It's not my argument that's terrible, I'm just applying your logic to both games.

No, I'm pretty sure your argument is terrible.


The story dictates that you go to the citadel at Vigil's behest through the conduit and resolve the conflict with Sovereign afterward.


Vigil as a plot device is the same as Anderson and his information about London.


Vigil has nothing in common with the star kid as a plot device.

[Leonard McCoy]

No, I'm pretty sure your argument is terrible.


The story dictates that you go to the citadel at Vigil's behest through the conduit and resolve the conflict with Sovereign afterward.


Vigil as a plot device is the same as Anderson and his information about London.


Vigil has nothing in common with the star kid as a plot device.

They share alot in common as plot devices. They both reveal to you information that you wouldn't have gleaned from other sources. They both provide you with necessary information and help to finish the games objectives. They both come out of left field towards what is more or less the end of the game. Here's the thing the criteria you apply to the star child as making him a deus ex machina can be applied to vigil as well, you just don't accept that vigil is a deus ex machina.

Even if they didn't share any common elements it wouldn't matter in so far as deus ex machina is concerned. Beowulfs sword shares virtually nothing in common with Giskard from Robots of Dawn but both are deus ex machinas.

[CrossNgen]

No, I'm pretty sure your argument is terrible.


The story dictates that you go to the citadel at Vigil's behest through the conduit and resolve the conflict with Sovereign afterward.


Vigil as a plot device is the same as Anderson and his information about London.


Vigil has nothing in common with the star kid as a plot device.

Just stop responding, this guy is too arrogant to listen to actual logic, and would avoid logical responses like the plague, it'll be a waste of your time to keep on with arguing with him.

[leafs43]

They share alot in common as plot devices. They both reveal to you information that you wouldn't have gleaned from other sources. They both provide you with necessary information and help to finish the games objectives. They both come out of left field towards what is more or less the end of the game.

Anderson reveals information about the Reapers and London much akin to Vigil and the citadel.


The star kid ends the story. Vigil does not. It's simple logic.


Whether you can grasp these points or not, I'm done arguing.