I'm having a lot of fun playing SWTOR as of lately!

[viciouss]

That is understandable but it is not exactly the games fault everyone flocks to one side in which many seem to blame bioware.

[Korgoth]

That is understandable but it is not exactly the games fault everyone flocks to one side in which many seem to blame bioware.

Yeah because Bioware created the game. They failed to make the Republic attractive to players; and they failed to implement any population control.

You roll empire you get to be james bond, darth vader, the sith emperor or Boba Fett, you roll republic you get to be Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, random soldier dude, random jedi wizard.

[viciouss]

I have seen plenty of note worthy people to look up to on the republic side. The bloat of imperials comes from the fact little was known about them. Once people see the story it will even out. Even now it is not nearly as big a deficit as it was before.

[Vegemeat]

Esseles/Black talon had a great story. Taral V/ Maelstrom and Boarding Party/ Foundry also had a great story. Having gone through and done the entire Revan/Exile flashpoints on both sides I can say they are amoung the best if not the best story elements in swtor hands down. As a kotor geek but in general as a gamer I was over the moon going through them.

Sooooo swtor doesn't have tons of mmo content but dragon soul for the next conceivable what 6 months? 8 months? That's tons of content? The standards that people apply are foolish and extremely silly. Another warzone coming a few weeks here, with rated pvp another flashpoint and another raid. Game has tons of mmo content for being a 3 months old at max. Wether or not you make use of it is another matter entirely.

You forgot the whole 1-85 in revamped starting zones with new story arcs in WoW. If we are comparing the two on merits of content, WoW still has infinitely more content to go through. Where as my 50 sage on swfitsure is sitting on fleet, doing nothing because the hours of spamming LFM in general is monotonous and tedious, and that's with being a guild too where everybody stopped logging on after the first 30 days.

Not to mention, The Swiftsure stopped having login queues right about the same time......interesting decline......

[Leonard McCoy]

You forgot the whole 1-85 in revamped starting zones with new story arcs in WoW. If we are comparing the two on merits of content, WoW still has infinitely more content to go through. Where as my 50 sage on swfitsure is sitting on fleet, doing nothing because the hours of spamming LFM in general is monotonous and tedious, and that's with being a guild too where everybody stopped logging on after the first 30 days.

Not to mention, The Swiftsure stopped having login queues right about the same time......interesting decline......

You knew the game didn't have an lfd but decided not to make friends along the way to 50. That's somehow the developers fault. The new revamped zones from 1-85 do not feature any group content as far as I'm aware. The game is more single player than ever. It's funny that people will bash star wars as a great single player game while warcraft has all but abandoned any concept of group leveling and is still somehow more mmo.

The servers stopped having ques for many reasons. People left to start on other servers. The server population caps were increased because so many people whined about ques. People left the game. All perfectly valid reasons. Having said that Fatman still had a que last weekend it was that god damned busy.

[seraphius]

currenty there are a ton of bug, the same wow had at launch if not more, but it stops people from jumping into it, the first xpac will be where it really shines or fails, right now it lacks some basic things we've been used to in wow, like a lfg system or vaugely laid out way to gear.

its still very fun and i'm still playing and doing ops, but it could be shined better and have more players!

i played wow in beta and early vanilla etc etc.. there is no game in history that had more bugs than wow did at launch and the first 6 months dude...

[Deleted]

You forgot the whole 1-85 in revamped starting zones with new story arcs in WoW.

People loved that so much people left in droves, Levelling in WoW is crap, theres no connection at all to your character, no personal story, no relationships you make, of course playing through a rambo piss take in redridge makes up for the lack of all that... add on that Zero challenge being able to mow down mobs left right and center, with no group centric quest's. Throw in ridiculous amounts of exp given for everything short of scratching you ass, ensuring you out level stuff so fast you barely get to complete these story archs without being shifted to the next zone ..quicker ..faster..must get to 85. And hey you still have to go through the godawfullness that is outland

Hands down TOR has the best levelling content out there, me and my 3 buds who leveled as a group had the best leveling experiance yet, sure if you play it alone you miss out on alot, but its an mmo for a reason, play it with people and it becomes awesome, WoW's levelling experience would be the same whether i leveleld singleplayer or as a group, TOR's just improves, invalidating all this single player MMO shit people are trying to throw at it, play it as a singleplayer thats what you get.

Crap i just added more fuel to the fire on a thread thats degenerated yet again to TOR Vs..... gotta stop doing that

[soulcrusher]

rep seems to have more people with a clue on my server, ToFN. Most of the brainless roll Imp hoping for a zerg and get turned over big time in warzones and open realm pvp. Imp also seems to attract most of the non english speakers so can have a much more fractured community.

[PeskyJNixon]

Really... So you wouldn't like a game that focused more on the game play than some bland story? You do realize that the biggest mistake of MMOs is centering their story around 100s or 1000s of quests, most of which you'll simply forget after completing them? In my opinion, games need to get back to action rpg roots and focus less on coming up with tons of quests and more on the activity of playing the game. That's why Jedi Academy was fun. It was an action adventure with RPG elements, but no leveling. You completed missions and unlocked new abilities and increased their power.

The only reason why that game isn't popular is because it offers very little replay value and the multi player sucked compared to the single player. If they did an MMO though, it would be miles better than SWTOR.

You want an action FPS with lightsabers by the sound of it, and that's fine, but this game NEVER EVER promised you anything like that experience. Bioware promised a dedicated storyline and companion system in an MMO format. It delivered those things. I'm not a SW fanboy, I'm a gaming fanboy and this game gets me excited.

The PvP games require skill more than gear (I've rolled some BM geared folks and been rolled by lower level players) and the PvE is far less grindy than any MMO I've ever played. As a matter of fact this is my eighth MMO and the only one I ever made it to end game on because all the others lost me somewhere (even WOW... many many times).

If you want an action adventure game you should play those, I don't hold it against you - it seems that Tera is trying very hard to be that (I am putting no stock in it however). There aren't any cut scenes, quest acceptance is done by hitting f once and then enter and you don't even have to read it, even better your quest objectives have symbols over their head so there isn't any real searching process that needs to be done.

Outside of the early bugs (and I do mean nearly 90% have been cleared out) I don't really understand how anyone that was familiar with the Bioware system could be disappointed by this game. I really believe it has delivered what was advertised. An emmersive MMO that has some unique features such as companions and rail space missions and some fairly standard systems (kill 10 womprat type of missions). Its unfortunate that so many people got caught up daydreaming about what the perfect game for themselves would be instead of focusing on what was promised and delivered.

The anger that a lot of the SWTOR folks are displaying is in reaction to a very vocal and over the top reaction from people against SWTOR, many without having played for more than a few days if a few weeks. Trashing the game as having no redeemable value due to having a bad experience loading the game or disliking the fact that its an RPG (which is what it is supposed to be), or disliking the companion system is fairly short sided. Its like hating Disney World because you don't like the teacups. Its an MMO! There are hundreds of things to do! Give it time and I'm pretty sure you'll find your corner or happy. But if WOW is what you want, play wow and be happy there. I think that's really the message we are trying to get across. You are investing your time bashing a game for not being a game that you wanted but was never ever promised or even eluded to in ANY of the years of previews, I mean how sad is that really? Just because this game doesn't speak to the game that you created in your head prior to playing SWTOR does not make it a "bad game" it just makes it not the game that is in your head (I can't tell you how worried I am that this will happen to me with Guild Wars 2). Wouldn't it be a more worthwhile investment of your time to spend it there?

[soulcrusher]

great post Pesky. Couldnt agree more.

[Jaylock]

great post Pesky. Couldnt agree more.

Yeah everything that he says is absolutely true. (I would have quoted him, but its a lot of text to quote ) I love SWTOR right now, the replayability is amazing. If anyone was an alt-o-holic in WoW, they would certainly be one in SWTOR because each class has a unique story. All classes so far that I have tried have been fun to play and have interesting abilities.

Face it, SWTOR is more of an MMO than most "MMOs" out there, and yes even more so than WoW. Just because there is no LFD tool to ruin the SWTOR community, doesnt mean that it does not offer group content. Almost all the time when i have a heroic 2+ or 4+ quest on whatever planet I am on, almost always there are people willing to group up, its just called getting out of your dark corner / shell and opening your mouth to SOCALIZE.

[Callax]

I'm happy you're enjoying it, I left due to the bad CS experiences I had, but happy to hear that you're enjoying it

[PeskyJNixon]

I'm happy you're enjoying it, I left due to the bad CS experiences I had, but happy to hear that you're enjoying it

Really sorry to hear about the Customer Service experience, I know a guildie of mine locked himself out of the game with the security key setup (which I think they pushed way too hard - but that's a marketing flaw, not a game flaw in my book). From what I hear (as someone that's never had to go that route) is that it is much better now that the initial hoard of folks have come and gone.

If the experience was so bad it tarnished you on the entire thing I completely understand, if you want to jump back in on the republic side, I play on the Jedi Covenant server and am most often on as Adams. Would be happy to have you join the guild!

[Callax]

Really sorry to hear about the Customer Service experience, I know a guildie of mine locked himself out of the game with the security key setup (which I think they pushed way too hard - but that's a marketing flaw, not a game flaw in my book). From what I hear (as someone that's never had to go that route) is that it is much better now that the initial hoard of folks have come and gone.

If the experience was so bad it tarnished you on the entire thing I completely understand, if you want to jump back in on the republic side, I play on the Jedi Covenant server and am most often on as Adams. Would be happy to have you join the guild!

Thank you for the invite, but I think I'll pass. I got some stuff going on with my fiance, plus my guild is going to get back to 4.3 HMs soon. I don't think I have the time to play two mmo's at once.

Having said that, I wish I could play ToR and WoW at the same time though. Other then bad CS, ToR has the best MMO story system I have ever played, and I hope it does well.

[Vegemeat]

You knew the game didn't have an lfd but decided not to make friends along the way to 50. That's somehow the developers fault. The new revamped zones from 1-85 do not feature any group content as far as I'm aware. The game is more single player than ever. It's funny that people will bash star wars as a great single player game while warcraft has all but abandoned any concept of group leveling and is still somehow more mmo.

The servers stopped having ques for many reasons. People left to start on other servers. The server population caps were increased because so many people whined about ques. People left the game. All perfectly valid reasons. Having said that Fatman still had a que last weekend it was that god damned busy.

It's funny, because your reply to my post has nothing to do with what I even said outside of the lack of queue on one of the most populated servers available. I simply compared the two on merit of content, and WoW has more content if we are judging solely on that aspect alone.

It is the developers fault that it takes hours to find a group at PEAK hours on swiftsure, I have people on my friends list, enough to make to a group to be precise. They don't log on anymore, their 30 days was up and they decided not to resub like a lot of people who play the game.

[rad586]

Yeah everything that he says is absolutely true. (I would have quoted him, but its a lot of text to quote ) I love SWTOR right now, the replayability is amazing. If anyone was an alt-o-holic in WoW, they would certainly be one in SWTOR because each class has a unique story. All classes so far that I have tried have been fun to play and have interesting abilities.

Face it, SWTOR is more of an MMO than most "MMOs" out there, and yes even more so than WoW. Just because there is no LFD tool to ruin the SWTOR community, doesnt mean that it does not offer group content. Almost all the time when i have a heroic 2+ or 4+ quest on whatever planet I am on, almost always there are people willing to group up, its just called getting out of your dark corner / shell and opening your mouth to SOCALIZE.

I disagree.

As an altoholic in WoW, I couldn't stand leveling another char in SWTOR past level 25. The reason is ........ huge ammount of side quests, that you need to pick up while leveling that are shared across are classes. They are generic MMO quests, mostly kill x number of mobs, blow this up, kill y number of mobs, etc. While in wow you can pick up the quests almost instantly and go do them (thinking - "I did them once, lets just get it done as fast as possible", or "I haven't done this, I'll read quest log on my way to the questing area" in case of the quests that you somehow skipped on previous characters), in SWTOR you have to go trough a conversation with each one - "spamming space" or turning on skip option won't help, you still have to make conversation choices. With each and every one of them.
Don't get me wrong, class quests are amazing. But the need to go trough all those side quests was not worth it for me.

Secondly, SWTOR is not more of an MMO than WoW. The reason being instanced quests, which remove you from the world for other players - which basically protects you from being ganked by enemy players. Which kills world pvp. The only things that reminds you about SWTOR being an MMO during leveling are occasional ganks from enemy players and them group quests.
Another thing that kills world pvp in SWTOR is the companion gathering system. Yes, it is removing world from SWTOR, because maxed level players are able to sit in their fleet all day long spamming "LFM" in chats, while sending companions on gathering missions. WoW world pvp is dead ? Wait a few months, and the world in SWTOR will be even more deserted when most of the players will max out their characters.

LFD, if being same-server-only (like LFD used to be in Wrath after it was introduced) will not destroy the community. The community will do it for itself, all the less good players and those that are not satisfied with current game design, will leave after being told by fanboys to "go back to wow". Or will leave anyway due to being sick of wow bash in general chats.

[Leonard McCoy]

It's funny, because your reply to my post has nothing to do with what I even said outside of the lack of queue on one of the most populated servers available. I simply compared the two on merit of content, and WoW has more content if we are judging solely on that aspect alone.

It is the developers fault that it takes hours to find a group at PEAK hours on swiftsure, I have people on my friends list, enough to make to a group to be precise. They don't log on anymore, their 30 days was up and they decided not to resub like a lot of people who play the game.

The group leveling model of content (i.e heroic questing) which warcraft has all but abandoned. You cannot say that warcraft has more group content leveling because for one they've abandoned something that SWTOR has kept.

[PeskyJNixon]

Having said that, I wish I could play ToR and WoW at the same time though. Other then bad CS, ToR has the best MMO story system I have ever played, and I hope it does well.

I understand your plight, as much as I am loving Star Wars I fear that I will have to give it up when GW2 is released as I can't imagine trying to balance work, fiance, and my other hobbies with both SWTOR and Guild Wars 2 vying for my attention. If you ever do decide to pop over let me know!

---------- Post added 2012-02-15 at 02:49 PM ----------

Secondly, SWTOR is not more of an MMO than WoW. The reason being instanced quests, which remove you from the world for other players - which basically protects you from being ganked by enemy players. Which kills world pvp. The only things that reminds you about SWTOR being an MMO during leveling are occasional ganks from enemy players and them group quests.

I'm confused, your reasoning that SWTOR isn't an MMO is because there is no PvP in instances? I think the many people that I see in world on planets are evidence of SWTOR being an MMO. You seem to equate an MMO with the likelihood of a level 50 jumping out at you at any point to kill you. That's not the definition of an MMO, that's the definition of being a griefer. The evidence of an MMO is interacting with real people - interaction isn't defined as being ganked by some jerk looking for easy prey. I worry if its how you define interaction....

Yesterday I helped a level 18 trooper run Athis because I was trying to gather materials to make armor for a guildie, 2 person running the instance was surprisingly fun even if I was ridiculously over leveled. We left laughing as both of our companions committed suicide by running into living fire during the final boss. It was a great interaction, afterwords three guildies and I jumped on mumble and ran four battlegrounds (went 3 and 1 by the way) our strategic pass ladder in Huttball was setup through interacting with each other, coming up with a plan and performing against it. That was fun.

The day before my goodie-two-shoes vanguard and my fiance's paragonic Sentinel helped a darkside guildie as he ran a class side quest and watched him antagonize an ancient evil before we all got squashed by it. That was a really fun interaction. In between those activities I ran to Tatooine to see if I could grab some Merc Commendations in the PvP zone where three stealthed assasins ganked me hard.

Guess what, that wasn't an interaction, that was a bunch of idiots getting a laugh because they made someone else's day worse. Yes, it was their right to do so, but really? Do you think I define the MMO experience by that? Do you?

---------- Post added 2012-02-15 at 02:58 PM ----------

Yeah because Bioware created the game. They failed to make the Republic attractive to players; and they failed to implement any population control. You roll empire you get to be james bond, darth vader, the sith emperor or Boba Fett, you roll republic you get to be Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, random soldier dude, random jedi wizard.

The funny thing is Republic outnumbers empire on my server. I love my trooper and smuggler. Eventually I may want to try Bounty Hunter and Agent, but I'm good for now. I see it as getting to play as Captain America/Cable type (hey you crossed genres first!), Han Solo/ Lando type, Luke / Obi-Won type, Qui-Gon Jin / Yoda type. I'm good with that.

[Vegemeat]

The group leveling model of content (i.e heroic questing) which warcraft has all but abandoned. You cannot say that warcraft has more group content leveling because for one they've abandoned something that SWTOR has kept.

I skipped a majority of the group quests on my way to 50, they are not required so using it as an example of content is pretty silly. It's a quest like any other, it does not constitute more content.

[Leonard McCoy]

I skipped a majority of the group quests on my way to 50, they are not required so using it as an example of content is pretty silly. It's a quest like any other, it does not constitute more content.

Yes I'm sure you did. I'm also sure thats at least in part one of the reasons you found the experience underwhelming. That does not invalidate it as group content that can be done while leveling. Just because you chose not to participate in it doesn't mean that its not worthwhile or that others didn't.