Teen Killed In Neighborhood Watch Shooting

[Droids]

Wait so you're saying that a biometic forensic scientist is no longer credible if he tries to make a living at it? You're just going with terrible ad homs now.

He is not a scientist.

Another facepalm.

[Edge-]

At this point all you can do is facepalm.

Would you like to tell us why? I'm just curious.

You didn't read the part where the other "expert" said Biometic analysis was bunk science in that same article?

How about the fact that this biometic analysis "expert" suddenly interjected himself into this case for financial gain? He is selling his software and teaching classes for profit on this.

Just like the news agency had the URL for the company that did the enhancing on the screen the whole time and mentioned them by name multiple times. They clearly didn't work on it for ANY financial gain or publicity.

It also goes against eye-witness testimony from someone standing mere feet away from the altercation, and his testimony is that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman was calling out for help.

Why would Trayvon be calling out for help?

"Ow, Ow! This guy on the bottom of me is hurting my fists with his head. Please someone save me!!"

Would you like to provide a link? I just did a casual google search for eyewitness accounts and found a number of different ones, most of them claiming the opposite.

http://www.alan.com/2012/03/24/eyewi...ked-zimmerman/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-...fter-shooting/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...injured/50543/

a few examples. If we're calling into question the video/audio evidence, we should also call into question the eyewitness statements. It's extremely common for eyewitnesses to be HORRIBLY wrong one way or another.

redit: Just noticed something. Apparently Zimmerman never removed his sweater and police reports state that his "shirt" (assuming sweater, since witnesses claim he was still wearing it after the shooting) had grass stains on it. Granted, even with the higher resolution it's still pretty poor quality, but I don't see any kind of staining on the back of his red sweater (green/brown should stand out VERY well on that).

[Tierbook]

hmm over this past weekend in my area at least 3 black teens or at least people under 20 died to a gun... wheres jesse jackson now

[KingHorse]

Yeah this seems the more likely explanation to me given the evidence.

Did...did me and Wells just meet in the middle on a political football issue?

I think I need to go lay down.

[Wells]

Forensic science is rubbish! (still not explained why)

Eye witness testimony yay!

He is not a scientist.

Not sure what definition of scientist you're using where a forensic expert isn't one.

[Droids]

Would you like to tell us why? I'm just curious.




Just like the news agency had the URL for the company that did the enhancing on the screen the whole time and mentioned them by name multiple times. They clearly didn't work on it for ANY financial gain or publicity.



Would you like to provide a link? I just did a casual google search for eyewitness accounts and found a number of different ones, most of them claiming the opposite.

http://www.alan.com/2012/03/24/eyewi...ked-zimmerman/
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/new-...fter-shooting/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...injured/50543/

a few examples. If we're calling into question the video/audio evidence, we should also call into question the eyewitness statements. It's extremely common for eyewitnesses to be HORRIBLY wrong one way or another.

The first link is to the guy who saw the altercation, saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman assaulting him, saw and heard Zimmerman calling out for help.

The second link is to someone who witnessed what happened after the shooting.

The third link is to someone who said Zimmerman didn't "appear" to be injured. This person is not a nurse or doctor, at night trying to see injuries on someone.

So you have one witness who actually witnessed the fight, and two others who saw nothing relevant.

How do two people who didn't see the fight at all, contradict the person who actually saw the fight?

You also can't explain the police and medical report stating that Zimmeran suffered a broken nose, bloody lip, and severe lacerations to the back of his head.

Police and the EMT's that looked at Zimmerman are pretty good witnesses and are actual professionals looking at the injuries with proper light and such, and not far away in a dark alley.


Please explain these links and how they actually contradict the eye-witness? Need help? THEY DON'T.

Try again.....

[Wells]

Wait I need to have a medical degree to see if someone has facial wounds?

[Edge-]

The first link is to the guy who saw the altercation, saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman assaulting him, saw and heard Zimmerman calling out for help.

The second link is to someone who witnessed what happened after the shooting.

The third link is to someone who said Zimmerman didn't "appear" to be injured. This person is not a nurse or doctor, at night trying to see injuries on someone.

So you have one witness who actually witnessed the fight, and two others who saw nothing relevant.

How do two people who didn't see the fight at all, contradict the person who actually saw the fight?

You also can't explain the police and medical report stating that Zimmeran suffered a broken nose, bloody lip, and severe lacerations to the back of his head.

Police and the EMT's that looked at Zimmerman are pretty good witnesses and are actual professionals looking at the injuries with proper light and such, and not far away in a dark alley.


Please explain these links and how they actually contradict the eye-witness? Need help? THEY DON'T.

Try again.....

Again, the first witness is listed as a "witness", I haven't found anywhere credible that lists them as an "eyewitness".

You don't need to be a doctor/nurse to see if someone is bleeding from the face and back of the head, that's just being able to...well, see, and anyone who has passable vision can tell that.

Again, with the police report, the video does not show ANY evidence of a broken nose. Let's ignore the back of the head thing for now since we won't agree on that, but if you've ever SEEN anyone with a broken nose, it swells up. A lot. That and there is visible bruising around the nostrils. Bloody lips generally swell too. The mug shots don't show any significant lip swelling, nor do they show ANY swelling/bruising around the nose. I would be very receptive if you could provide some evidence of this instead of just re-stating yourself.

redit: Heck, the mugshot itself doesn't show ANY evidence of a broken nose or any bruising/cuts on his face, and that's significantly higher quality than the video.

[Droids]

Forensic science is rubbish! (still not explained why)

Eye witness testimony yay!




Not sure what definition of scientist you're using where a forensic expert isn't one.

Explain how someone whose credentials are:



B.A. History 1969
Bellarmine College, Louisville, Kentucky

Completion of Voice Identification Course, 1985

Experience in the Recording Arts, 35 years

So if I get a degree in History and take a Voice Identification course in 1985, and am able to record stuff on 4-tracks, I can consider myself a "scientist".

Also, no where ever does he call himself a scientist. That is your word.

His website.

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/index.html

Buy his software and take his courses! Come on! Biometic Analysis is sweeping the country!! All yours for the low introductory price of $4,995!!

They also do Data Recovery.

lol

I didn't know you had to be a "scientist" to get a job as Data Recovery person.

[Todgruppe]

Again, the first witness is listed as a "witness", I haven't found anywhere credible that lists them as an "eyewitness".

You don't need to be a doctor/nurse to see if someone is bleeding from the face and back of the head, that's just being able to...well, see, and anyone who has passable vision can tell that.

Again, with the police report, the video does not show ANY evidence of a broken nose. Let's ignore the back of the head thing for now since we won't agree on that, but if you've ever SEEN anyone with a broken nose, it GENERALLY swells up. A lot. That and there is visible bruising around the nostrils. Bloody lips generally swell too. The mug shots don't show any significant lip swelling, nor do they show ANY swelling/bruising around the nose. I would be very receptive if you could provide some evidence of this instead of just re-stating yourself.

Fixed, broken mine twice, minimum swelling. Granted, it's permanently crooked now but bleh.


Still bothers me they (media) use bullshit photos, set years ago, to automatically sway bias.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politic...cs/martin3.jpg
http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver...zimmerman5.jpg


Let's play this game!

[Wells]

He's a court approved forensic expert. You have literally not a single leg to stand on here Droids.

Now would you kindly explain how biometric voice analysis is "rubbish"? I'm getting really tired of trying to get you to actually defend the claims you make.

[Droids]

The mug shots don't show any significant lip swelling, nor do they show ANY swelling/bruising around the nose. I would be very receptive if you could provide some evidence of this instead of just re-stating yourself.

Da fuck?

Really?

What mugshot are you talking about?

The one they have been showing from 2005?

[Edge-]

Da fuck?

Really?

What mugshot are you talking about?

The one they have been showing from 2005?

I'm under the assumption that it was recent, if that's not the case than I retract all my arguments based on them. Would you care to deal with the other points then?

[Todgruppe]

I'm under the assumption that it was recent, if that's not the case than I retract all my arguments based on them. Would you care to deal with the other points then?

Nah, the only photo they use is his '05 mugshot, while poor poor Treyvon gets his innocent photo taken as a 12 year old.

[jonny888]

This thread is nearly a month old. Why is it still alive? Surely everything relevant to the topic has been discussed by now.

<Infracted> If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion, then don't post at all. Posting just to complain about an ongoing discussion in the General Off-Topic forum is pure spam.

[Wells]

This thread is nearly a month old. Why is it still alive? Surely everything relevant to the topic has been discussed by now.

Didn't stop you from doing your part to keep it alive.

[Droids]

I'm under the assumption that it was recent, if that's not the case than I retract all my arguments based on them. Would you care to deal with the other points then?

I already answered your other points.

If you watch the countless videos of where the altercation occurred and where the witness only identified as "Jon" was standing, you could see how close he was standing while witnessing what happened.

His testimony has been that he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman savagely assaulting him, while Zimmerman was calling out for help.

The only other witnesses that have come forward, only have information of what happened after they heard a gunshot.

One person said it "appeared" Zimmerman was not injured.

Yet the Police Officers and EMT's who investigated Zimmerman's injuries close up with actual lights said he suffered extensive injuries, i.e broken nose, bloody lip, and severe lacerations to the back of his head.

[Wells]

Its amusing that you discount literally every form of evidence and swear by witness testimony, which is pretty much the weakest kind.

[phenix]

This thread is nearly a month old. Why is it still alive?

Because the guy aint...


ultimately people want due process to happen. GZ was released before witnesses, phone calls/records and other evidence could be fully analyzed.

[Paranoid Android]

Again most of you are getting too deep into the case. Hopefully evidence will come out one way or the other. Has this case been politicized? Yes. Seems like some of you hate the fact tho that Martin should just die quietly even tho Zimmerman is by no means clean in the case. My two points I always make are:

1) What gave the right for Zimmerman to deem Martin suspicious. He did not see him commit a crime or have someone in neighborhood call or run out of that person's house yelling "someone stole my whatever" fitting Martin's description. Which brings me to he is more or less a vigilante. Cmon people you would really like it if I or someon in your neighborhood stopped you everytime for being suspicous. Also why did Zimmerman follow him? If I thought I saw a person who might have done something I'm callin 911 and that is it. Again for all you who portay Martin as this thug-wannabe, drug dealer then I would be scared he would actually harm me. Seems Zimmerman had alot gusto to follow him. Oh, and also a handgun he knew he had just in case something happened.

2)The Florida "stand your ground" law is so ridiculous that sadly this may be enough to acquit Zimmerman even if his story does not fully pan out. I still don't know who started the fight. The rest for the moment seems grey but backs more of Zimmerman than Martin. Again its funny people are taking the word of the person who actually shot and killed a person as gold. I always ask people if its me and you and nobody around and you throw first punch, I have the right to shoot you?