[Megathread] DotA 2

[Lysah]

You have played ranked and you have an MMR?

I played AP and randomed in all 10 of my solo matches and lost 9 of them. I started legitimately picking after I got landed at like 4600 (which is pretty high for a 10% winrate in placement, if I do say so myself) and won 4 or 5 in a row and went up 100 rating and was already bored and stopped. I play party with friends from time to time, as you know, but I don't really take it seriously at all because party MMR is even more of a joke than solo.

I don't know how much you know about MMR manipulation, but I've seen you recognize the fact that people do it at least. I have a friend at 6200, and you know what he does? Every time he has a bad week/day/game and drops below his pretty designated number he has one of our other friends log on to his 6k alt, queue up, and throw games to get him back up to where he was. And I know he isn't the only person that does this. It's not as abusive as party MMR stacking, but it's still easily possible and you can still be boosted to 6k if you ask the right people.

And I was going to wave my 6k MMR in everyone's face but I got bored of climbing the ladder the second I started. I barely play this game anymore to be honest, it's hard to stay interested in a game when you have nowhere to grow, in my opinion. Just playing to play isn't enough for me, sadly, though I do like the hats quite a bit.

If you really want me to, I'll go pay someone for a 6k MMR account if it will shut you up for a while. Even if I couldn't get there on my own, it wouldn't matter, as it has been shown repeatedly that staying at an MMR level is a lot easier than getting there, and even if I was only a 5k player I could probably keep a 6k MMR pretty easily.

[Deleted]

I played AP and randomed in all 10 of my solo matches and lost 9 of them. I started legitimately picking after I got landed at like 4600 (which is pretty high for a 10% winrate in placement, if I do say so myself) and won 4 or 5 in a row and went up 100 rating and was already bored and stopped. I play party with friends from time to time, as you know, but I don't really take it seriously at all because party MMR is even more of a joke than solo.

I don't know how much you know about MMR manipulation, but I've seen you recognize the fact that people do it at least. I have a friend at 6200, and you know what he does? Every time he has a bad week/day/game and drops below his pretty designated number he has one of our other friends log on to his 6k alt, queue up, and throw games to get him back up to where he was. And I know he isn't the only person that does this. It's not as abusive as party MMR stacking, but it's still easily possible and you can still be boosted to 6k if you ask the right people.

And I was going to wave my 6k MMR in everyone's face but I got bored of climbing the ladder the second I started. I barely play this game anymore to be honest, it's hard to stay interested in a game when you have nowhere to grow, in my opinion. Just playing to play isn't enough for me, sadly, though I do like the hats quite a bit.

If you really want me to, I'll go pay someone for a 6k MMR account if it will shut you up for a while. Even if I couldn't get there on my own, it wouldn't matter, as it has been shown repeatedly that staying at an MMR level is a lot easier than getting there, and even if I was only a 5k player I could probably keep a 6k MMR pretty easily.

So you don't do as well as pros in pubs...? You can not care about your ranked games all you want but you losing them indicates that you aren't as successful as a pro in pub, regardless of reason.

I don't see how abuse to high MMR is relevant for what we are discussing though. Are you seriously implying pros are abusing their MMR?

Staying at 6k MMR if you're not a 6k player is incredibly difficult because unlike staying at 5k if you're a 4k player you are almost always the highest MMR player in your team. That means you need to have the highest impact. If you are a 4k player on a 5k account then you can play low impact heroes and not do much and avoid feeding and still stay fairly close around 50% win rate just due to the nature of matchmaking.

[Lysah]

So you don't do as well as pros in pubs...?

Terrible logic. You have a lower winrate than me in pubs. So you aren't as good as me in pubs...?

[Deleted]

Terrible logic. You have a lower winrate than me in pubs. So you aren't as good as me in pubs...?

We are not even playing the same mode. Is Vroksnak worse than himself because he has lower winrate on his ranked AP account compared to his unranked AP account?

[Lysah]

We are not even playing the same mode. Is Vroksnak worse than himself because he has lower winrate on his ranked AP account compared to his unranked AP account?

Are you admitting randoming in ranked AP is not a recipe for success now? We can go on like this forever, you need to realize there are a million factors to everything that you fail to account for. There is no way to prove you are right about anything, all you can go do is throw a fit on MMOC for a while until everyone moves on and forgets about the conversation. Watching Arteezy's stream every day doesn't make you any more credible than anyone else here.

To be honest, I already posted what I wanted to say about PA and gave my playlist as evidence. It generated some fun discussion for a while but clearly that bothers you horribly so we can stop if you want, I would hate to offend the resident dota2 thread fact-checker.

[PizzaSHARK]

Yes, worst item in the game because it doesn't really counter PA -> it's bad. I saw a NP going for blade mail as well, quite often recently, going for PTs, 2 or 3 null talismans and blade mail and I thought it would be bad as well, but it was actually pretty decent. He had over 100 damage and around 1100 health, so not really that squishy quite early in the game.

Yes, a Profit was doing that in one of my games recently, and it was terrible. He basically just fed all game until he eventually got a sheeper and necrobook and actually started contributing.

Yeah sure, everyone above 3k MMR won't be dumb enough to attack into the spikes, so he will just take the 4.5 seconds of free beating. Of course you don't get it on squishy supports on which you would get ghost scepter, the items are fundamentally different. Why do you assume people get blade mail on weak support heroes as a defensive item?

I'm saying it's a shitty item on pretty much everyone, it's just even worse on supports.

PA is an amazing late game carry on paper, but from what I've seen during my years of dota is that most of the time when game is remotely balanced in 60+ minute games PA faces a team stacked with Hexes, Force Staves, Euls, Ghost Scepters, BKB's and MKB's and gets kited to death during her short BKB and then disabled.

Pretty much. She's hard to handle until it's 50 minutes in and you have a halberd, two sheepers, everyone has some stats and/or ghost scepters, etc. Then it's just avoid her for 5 seconds and then remove her from the fight entirely.

How a MoM PA doesn't die to an Ogre with aghs when she doesn't have a BKB is beyond me.

Does MoM even amp blademail damage? It's Pure damage; I thought Pure wasn't amplified or reduced by anything.

Old Sproink is my most hated early game hero as mele, pretty much impossible to kill 1v1 till you get some items.

Depends. Untouchable will basically nullify the IAS boost from blinkstrike, but if you crit on the first swing, Bambi's dead anyway. Blue ogre best creep against PA, though... Untouchable and ice armor slows stack, it's crazy good. You're still dead if she crits on the first swing though.

[Deleted]

Are you admitting randoming in ranked AP is not a recipe for success now? We can go on like this forever, you need to realize there are a million factors to everything that you fail to account for. There is no way to prove you are right about anything, all you can go do is throw a fit on MMOC for a while until everyone moves on and forgets about the conversation. Watching Arteezy's stream every day doesn't make you any more credible than anyone else here.

To be honest, I already posted what I wanted to say about PA and gave my playlist as evidence. It generated some fun discussion for a while but clearly that bothers you horribly so we can stop if you want, I would hate to offend the resident dota2 thread fact-checker.

Like ppd and zai?

I stated my opinion of PA and you asked me to elaborate and started the discussion. Not the opposite. I don't care if you link your PA games because I know they don't amount to anything. Did you see me comment when you linked your PA games? Did you see me quote PizzaSHARK when he did his first posts? I don't care what you think works in your pubs games. I'm not going to disagree with that. What I disagree with is when you talk as if you're better than pros and saying they are doing it wrong in their games which you have no experience of.

[Lysah]

What I disagree with is when you talk as if you're better than pros and saying they are doing it wrong in their games which you have no experience of.

You are entitled to your opinion, then. I guess the best thing for us is for me to simply ignore you the next time you start spouting your opinions about professional player gospel, as it amounts to nothing.

[EqualWin]

how is MMR pointless? (I play unranked myself) but I think mmr means something.. the higher ur mmr is the harder the game gets, like those 6-7k+ mmr players playing with 4k players vs 5k-6k players. tho its true it can be abusable by spamming heroes, like meepo

[PizzaSHARK]

It's not hard to rocket up MMR if you spam that patch's overpowered heroes. PA and Ogre Magi would be the best heroes to pick in this patch. It's pretty rare that I don't see a first pick Ogre Magi in allpick games, everyone knows how hilariously overpowered he is now.

[Longview]

It's not hard to rocket up MMR if you spam that patch's overpowered heroes. PA and Ogre Magi would be the best heroes to pick in this patch. It's pretty rare that I don't see a first pick Ogre Magi in allpick games, everyone knows how hilariously overpowered he is now.

dunno if we play the same game

my last 20 games had 3 ogre magi total

[M1r4g3]

dunno if we play the same game

my last 20 games had 3 ogre magi total

The problem is everyone seems to be talking about games at their own mmr, if a hero is ''op'' at 2k it doesn't mean it will still be ''op'' at 3k+ (and when i say op i mean people don't know how to deal with them) and then there are heroes that are ''op'' at higher mmr when people actually know how to play/micro decently like meepo.

[Deleted]

dunno if we play the same game

my last 20 games had 3 ogre magi total

I wonder about that almost every time I read a post in this thread actually.

[PizzaSHARK]

The problem is everyone seems to be talking about games at their own mmr, if a hero is ''op'' at 2k it doesn't mean it will still be ''op'' at 3k+ (and when i say op i mean people don't know how to deal with them) and then there are heroes that are ''op'' at higher mmr when people actually know how to play/micro decently like meepo.

Meepo's only OP if they don't pick any hero that's good at dealing with him. Huge magic burst or someone with a good cleave can both make him pretty useless in fights... Lina, Lion, Kunkka, Sven, Earthshaker, Sand King, etc. Heroes that can either lock down and instagib a Meepo or can cause a lot of damage to all of the Meepos. I think the problem is a lot of people don't consider how much burst three or four Meepos poofing is so they just run right in and die.

Ogre Magi is OP at every level of the game. PA is OP at every level of the game. I couldn't say why people at higher MMRs aren't picking them other than maybe they don't feel the need to basically cheat to win games.

[EqualWin]

same can be say about PA, meepo is pretty strong unless you insta pick him. u'll get counter picked to dead

[noteworthynerd]

Puppey's AMA is awesome http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...y_ivanov_from/

[PizzaSHARK]

same can be say about PA, meepo is pretty strong unless you insta pick him. u'll get counter picked to dead

Not really. PA doesn't have any natural counters. Ogre Magi does not have any natural counters. You can first pick both of them and you'll still be fine, and you won't even give away anything about laning or drafting strategy, because both have multiple lanes where they're strong.

This is part of why they're so OP right now.

[EqualWin]

I dont see pa picked in every pro game, nor she has an amazing win rate. yeah she's amazing when people dont know how to deal with her, or snowball and you win the game in 20 min.. pretty much like any other "annoying" hero.

[PizzaSHARK]

I dont see pa picked in every pro game, nor she has an amazing win rate. yeah she's amazing when people dont know how to deal with her, or snowball and you win the game in 20 min.. pretty much like any other "annoying" hero.

She doesn't need to snowball. She can play from behind and still win very easily. Same with OM.

Winrates don't mean a goddamned thing in terms of balance. Pick rates don't mean a goddamn thing in terms of balance. especially not in pubs. Some people want to win as much as possible to pump MMR, they will pick broken heroes as often as possible to do so. Other people pick whatever heroes they find fun. PA isn't particularly fun, she's pretty gd boring to play actually.

[Jester Joe]

She doesn't need to snowball. She can play from behind and still win very easily. Same with OM.

Winrates don't mean a goddamned thing in terms of balance. Pick rates don't mean a goddamn thing in terms of balance. especially not in pubs. Some people want to win as much as possible to pump MMR, they will pick broken heroes as often as possible to do so. Other people pick whatever heroes they find fun. PA isn't particularly fun, she's pretty gd boring to play actually.

I feel like she has the same thing as Ogre, fun to play because that feeling of watching RNG bless you is like no other. It's like when you used to be able to spin like a helicopter with Axe and dominate. In a nutshell, yeah she sounds boring, but when you see that satisfying crit animation proc...